Cullet


MOFWCABOOSE@...
 

I don't know about the 1940s, but I remember seeing a photo article in
Popular Science sometime in the early 1950s depicting a cullet plant, in California
I believe, showing how the stuff was crushed, metals removed, and then the
glass was washed and tumbled to remove sharp edges, picked over by hand to remove
any foreign objects the magnets had missed, and finally loaded into hopper
cars or trucks.

I suspect that any coloring agents would have been removed when the cullet
was melted in the furnaces, much as carbon and trace additives are removed when
scrap iron and steel are melted...the additives unite with the limestone to
form slag, which is removed, thus leaving pure iron.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL


**************************************
See what's new at
http://www.aol.com


drgwrail
 

Not steam era but to show the sue of hopper cars.....

The bottle producing plant next to the Coors brewery in Golden CO
gets about 6 hopper cars of "cullet" a week. Don't know where it
comes from but it is shipped in NS conventional open top coal hoppers.

Cullet was also shipped from Oneonta in specal service fishbelly twin
hoppers painted blue.

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO



--- In STMFC@..., MOFWCABOOSE@... wrote:

I don't know about the 1940s, but I remember seeing a photo article
in
Popular Science sometime in the early 1950s depicting a cullet
plant, in California
I believe, showing how the stuff was crushed, metals removed, and
then the
glass was washed and tumbled to remove sharp edges, picked over by
hand to remove
any foreign objects the magnets had missed, and finally loaded into
hopper
cars or trucks.

I suspect that any coloring agents would have been removed when the
cullet
was melted in the furnaces, much as carbon and trace additives are
removed when
scrap iron and steel are melted...the additives unite with the
limestone to
form slag, which is removed, thus leaving pure iron.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL


**************************************
See what's new at
http://www.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Dave Nelson
 

MOFWCABOOSE@... wrote:
I don't know about the 1940s, but I remember seeing a photo article
in Popular Science sometime in the early 1950s depicting a cullet
plant, in California I believe, showing how the stuff was crushed,
metals removed, and then the glass was washed and tumbled to remove
sharp edges, picked over by hand to remove any foreign objects the
magnets had missed, and finally loaded into hopper cars or trucks.

Here in central California there were several glass container plants in
Oakland, no doubt providing some combination of packing jars, beverage
bottles, and ordinary table glassware, all of which would have found ready
markets very close at hand. There isn't any suitable sand anywhere nearby
tho... the closest that I know of was very fine beach sand near Monterey...
quite a ways to be shipping sand. So my guess is they used a lot of cullet,
which would have been fairly easy to come by in an urban area.

I wonder if that was par-for-the-course in cities that lacked the right
quality sand?

============

A story about cullet that I read somewhere: A local glass installation
company, Cobbledick-Kibbe (C-K), provided plate and window glass to large
office buildings under construction in San Francisco and neighboring cities.
Somehow the Western Pacific convinced C-K to try their service (instead of
just SP all of the time) and receive the glass at the WP depot in Oakland.
But there was some reason why DF boxcars wouldn't work, so WP specified the
large plate glass be carefully loaded and shipped in gondolas (covered w/
canvas); on arrival in Oakland, C-K inspectors pulled back the canvas and
found all 4 gons filled w/ cullet. Needless to say, C-K continued to do
business with the SP.

Dave Nelson


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Blue, Chuck? I thought the cullet cars were the silver ones?


SGL



Cullet was also shipped from Oneonta in special service fishbelly twin
hoppers painted blue.

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

John C. La Rue, Jr. wrote:
I suspect that any coloring agents would have been removed when the cullet was melted in the furnaces, much as carbon and trace additives are removed when scrap iron and steel are melted...the additives unite with the limestone to form slag, which is removed, thus leaving pure iron.
Different process, John. In fact, colored glass is QUITE hard to re-clarify. You can mix brown and green glass, but not put either one into clear glass. And blue glass is a serious contaminant for any other glass color.
There are several reasons, but an important one is that glass melting is a very slow process, mostly due to the viscosity and resulting slow circulation and mixing of the glass--24-hour melts are common, whereas steelmaking can be accomplished in 90 minutes or less. (That's the reason that glass recycling really saves little energy; the process takes about as long, and about as much energy, whether you use raw materials or cullet. But you DO take all those bottle-size voids out of landfills.) Another difference from iron refining is that there is no slag equivalent in glassmaking.

Anthony Thompson
Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering
University of California, Berkeley
thompsonmarytony@...


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

John C. La Rue, Jr. wrote:
I suspect that any coloring agents would have been removed when the cullet was melted in the furnaces, much as carbon and trace additives are removed when scrap iron and steel are melted...the additives unite with the limestone to form slag, which is removed, thus leaving pure iron.
I forgot to mention, lest there be any confusion, that this is NOT what happens when scrap steel is remelted. You don't get anything like "pure iron," but simply the net of the alloying contents in the scrap. Some impurities can be slagged off, but scrap is usually segregated as to approximate alloy content (and is considerably less valuable if not segregated), just so that the sometimes complex and subtle adjustment of alloy content does not have to be done on a very big scale.
I think John is confusing remelting of scrap, with production from raw materials.

Anthony Thompson
Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering
University of California, Berkeley
thompsonmarytony@...


Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

I forgot to mention, lest there be any confusion, that this is
NOT what happens when scrap steel is remelted. You don't get anything
like "pure iron," but simply the net of the alloying contents in the
scrap. Some impurities can be slagged off, but scrap is usually
segregated as to approximate alloy content (and is considerably less
valuable if not segregated), just so that the sometimes complex and
subtle adjustment of alloy content does not have to be done on a very
big scale.
I think John is confusing remelting of scrap, with
production
from raw materials.

Anthony Thompson
Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering
University of California, Berkeley
thompsonmarytony@...

That reminds me of a message a while back, either here or on the Ry
Ops Industrial sig list, where a knowledgeable poster commented on the
vigilance mills now employ to keep radioactive scrap metal out of
their process, for fear of turning out an entire heat of radioactive
re-bar that would then have to be treated as HAZMAT waste.

Makes me wonder, with the level of quality control (or lack thereof )
currently coming to light in Chinese industry, just how many reactor
vessel parts went into the re-bar used in the Three Gorges dam project.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see if it glows in the dark :-)

Dennis


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
"Blue, Chuck? I thought the cullet cars were the silver ones?"

Chuck is absolutely correct:
http://rr-fallenflags.org/dh/dh-h5987s.jpg

Silver was applied to several different series of twin covered
hoppers, but I've never seen any open hoppers documented in silver.

Additionally, some of the D&H's offset twins were assigned to this
service.

Recommend moving this thread to bbfcl as we're definitely out of the
scope of STMFC.


Ben Hom


Russ Strodtz <railfreightcars@...>
 

My vote is with Mr Thompson. That is why the cullet was sent back to
the plant that the bottles were made at. One would think that they would
almost always have batches of brown glass stewing since beer bottles
were one of their biggest products.

Another thing comes to mind. I'm sure most of us are familiar with the
heavy, sort of waxy, cardboard cartons that refillable beer was/is sold in.
That was what the new bottles were shipped in. I'm sure their thinking was
that even though they had to be taken out to be filled those cartons had
to be bought at some time in the process and their use would cut down on
breakage.

The purchasing and delivery of packaging materials may have been the
reason that there were so many CP and CN cars to be found around the
glass plants.

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, 30 October, 2007 01:07
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Cullet


John C. La Rue, Jr. wrote:
> I suspect that any coloring agents would have been removed when the
> cullet was melted in the furnaces, much as carbon and trace additives
> are removed when scrap iron and steel are melted...the additives unite
> with the limestone to form slag, which is removed, thus leaving pure
> iron.

Different process, John. In fact, colored glass is QUITE hard
to re-clarify. You can mix brown and green glass, but not put either
one into clear glass. And blue glass is a serious contaminant for any
other glass color.
There are several reasons, but an important one is that glass
melting is a very slow process, mostly due to the viscosity and
resulting slow circulation and mixing of the glass--24-hour melts are
common, whereas steelmaking can be accomplished in 90 minutes or less.
(That's the reason that glass recycling really saves little energy; the
process takes about as long, and about as much energy, whether you use
raw materials or cullet. But you DO take all those bottle-size voids
out of landfills.) Another difference from iron refining is that there
is no slag equivalent in glassmaking.

Anthony Thompson
Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering
University of California, Berkeley
thompsonmarytony@...