Gloss coat for decalling


Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

I'm still learning about using the airbrush to paint cars, and still discovering the various paint manufacturers and their products. In a recent effort, I tried out some Floquil colours and really liked the way the paint went on. But now I'm wanting to decal the cars, and realise I need a glossy surface to have the decals adhere well. (or is that right?)

I could have mixed in Floquil's gloss to the base coat but didn't during this first effort. So I'm left with spraying a clear overcoat of gloss, and have done enough reading to be confused. The options seem to be:
1) stick to the floquil products, and use their gloss coat....
2) use testors gloss coat
3) use some other manufacturer's gloss coat
4) use Future floor finish as a gloss coat.
Actually the Future idea kind of appeals to me from my reading about it on the web. But I want to have a sense of the risks andeasy of use associated with other products before soing something that seems as experimental as using the Future.

Thanks for any comments,

Rob Kirkham


pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Rob,
The simple answer is that you can do any one of the four things you've
listed.
In fact I would suggest that you try all 4 and figure out the one you
prefer the best,
For what it's worth I've really come to like the Scalecoat clear
products, both the flat and the gloss.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

I'm still learning about using the airbrush to paint cars, and still
discovering the various paint manufacturers and their products. In
a recent
effort, I tried out some Floquil colours and really liked the way
the paint
went on. But now I'm wanting to decal the cars, and realise I need
a glossy
surface to have the decals adhere well. (or is that right?)

I could have mixed in Floquil's gloss to the base coat but didn't
during
this first effort. So I'm left with spraying a clear overcoat of
gloss, and
have done enough reading to be confused. The options seem to be:
1) stick to the floquil products, and use their gloss coat....
2) use testors gloss coat
3) use some other manufacturer's gloss coat
4) use Future floor finish as a gloss coat.
Actually the Future idea kind of appeals to me from my reading about
it on
the web. But I want to have a sense of the risks andeasy of use
associated
with other products before soing something that seems as
experimental as
using the Future.

Thanks for any comments,

Rob Kirkham


hummerdaves
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

I need a glossy
surface to have the decals adhere well. (or is that right?)

4) use Future floor finish as a gloss coat.
Actually the Future idea kind of appeals to me from my reading
about it on
the web. But I want to have a sense of the risks andeasy of use
associated
with other products before soing something that seems as
experimental as
using the Future.

Rob
Future is very easy to use and most likely won't harm your finish.
I have used it a few times with excellant results. I use a mix of
30% alcohol and 70% Future and spray on 3 light coats, let this
dry over night and apply the decals with distilled water only.
After the decals have dried overnight I lightly apply Micro-sol.

Dave S.


Ray Meyer
 

I have used Testor's Gloss coat with good results. Whatever you use, the
important thing is to get a light coat; you don't need much to decal
properly. Use too much and you may get
a yellowish overcast to the paint in addition to filleting issues around
the details.

On Nov 8, 2007 6:47 AM, Dave Schroedle <hummerdaves@yahoo.com> wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Kirkham
<rdkirkham@...> wrote:

I need a glossy
surface to have the decals adhere well. (or is that right?)
--
Atty Raymond G. Meyer
110 E. Main St
Port Washington, WI 53074
262-284-5566
rgmeyer2@gmail.com


Tim O'Connor
 

On the few occasions I have used Floquil for a whole paint job,
I premix Crystal Cote (not Gloss) into the color. IMO this gives
a smoother finish than with the Gloss.

If you want a THIN glossy coat of paint, almost any paint is gonna
be better than Floquil.

I'm still learning about using the airbrush to paint cars, and still
discovering the various paint manufacturers and their products. In a recent
effort, I tried out some Floquil colours and really liked the way the paint
went on. But now I'm wanting to decal the cars, and realise I need a glossy
surface to have the decals adhere well. (or is that right?)

I could have mixed in Floquil's gloss to the base coat but didn't during
this first effort. So I'm left with spraying a clear overcoat of gloss, and
have done enough reading to be confused. The options seem to be:
1) stick to the floquil products, and use their gloss coat....
2) use testors gloss coat
3) use some other manufacturer's gloss coat
4) use Future floor finish as a gloss coat.
Actually the Future idea kind of appeals to me from my reading about it on
the web. But I want to have a sense of the risks andeasy of use associated
with other products before soing something that seems as experimental as
using the Future.

Thanks for any comments,

Rob Kirkham


Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
 

Rob

I think Future is gettting to be pretty mainstream. I was firly
sceptical at first but having hads some models completed fora few
years with no sign of yellowing or other advers effects I have started
to use it extensively.

Aidrian


Tim O'Connor
 

I bought a model on Ebay that was well painted, but it looks like it
got a Future "dip" -- the thing is just ridiculously shiny ALL OVER.
So I'm afraid this one is headed for the stripper... Since this is the
only model that I've seen finished with Future, I am not terribly
impressed with the stuff. I'm sure it has its uses, but use it in
moderation!

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton" <smokeandsteam@gmail.com>
Rob

I think Future is gettting to be pretty mainstream. I was firly
sceptical at first but having hads some models completed fora few
years with no sign of yellowing or other advers effects I have started
to use it extensively.

Aidrian


Jack Burgess
 

The current issue of Finescale Modeler has an insert on air-brushing of acrylic paints (but I will still stick with Floquil) and an article on the use of Future. In reading past articles in Finescale Modeler, it seems that Future is the primary choice for plane, automobile, etc. modelers. I haven't used it yet in an airbrush but have brush painted it on just portions of wood models to allow for decaling and it worked just fine. I'm sure that it won't hurt the Floquil. You need to be careful only if applying a heavy coat of a lacquer-based paint (such as Floquil) over an enamel or water-based paint...

Jack Burgess
yosemitevalleyrr.com


Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...>
 

Tim,

Looks like you do not have anything to loose here so why not try a light media blast of the heavy area. The stipper jar will still be there if you don't like the results.

Mont Switzer

timboconnor@comcast.net wrote:

I bought a model on Ebay that was well painted, but it looks like it
got a Future "dip" -- the thing is just ridiculously shiny ALL OVER.
So I'm afraid this one is headed for the stripper... Since this is the
only model that I've seen finished with Future, I am not terribly
impressed with the stuff. I'm sure it has its uses, but use it in
moderation!

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton" <smokeandsteam@gmail.com>
Rob

I think Future is gettting to be pretty mainstream. I was firly
sceptical at first but having hads some models completed fora few
years with no sign of yellowing or other advers effects I have started
to use it extensively.

Aidrian



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


Barry Roth
 

Dave (or anyone),

Is the reason for using distilled water so that on drying it will not leave a whitish deposit of dissolved salts? Or is there another reason, such as the effect on the decals themselves?

Also, is the alcohol in the fomula below ordinary rubbing alcohol (70% isopropanol), or another kind?

Thanks,

Barry Roth

Dave Schroedle <hummerdaves@yahoo.com> wrote:
[...]
Future is very easy to use and most likely won't harm your finish.
I have used it a few times with excellant results. I use a mix of
30% alcohol and 70% Future and spray on 3 light coats, let this
dry over night and apply the decals with distilled water only.
After the decals have dried overnight I lightly apply Micro-sol.

Dave S.


.




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


leakinmywaders
 

Tim and Mont:
I have made my share of mistakes with Future, and had some satisfying
successes. In between those two outcomes, I've found you can repair
a botched Future job by swabbing local overthickened areas or sags
with a clean cloth wetted with isopropyl alcohol. For a long-ago
finished job you might want need to settle the swab on and let it
steep for a while. Of course it's best to avoid the need, but one of
the less-recognized virtues of Future is that you do have a shot at
re-working local areas like this and successfully regrading the
blemish repair into the surrounding finish.

I haven't tried media blasting, but judging by the nature of the
material that might work well too.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...> wrote:

Tim,

Looks like you do not have anything to loose here so why not try a
light media blast of the heavy area. The stipper jar will still be
there if you don't like the results.

Mont Switzer


Bill Kelly
 

Tim,
Maybe you can just strip the Future. The instructions on the bottle say
that it can be removed with a solution of 1 cup ammonia and 1/4 cup
Armstrong Floor Cleaner in 1/2 gallon cool water, then rinse with clean
water. I've never tried this but it's worth a shot.
If you choose this route let us know how it works.
Later,
Bill Kelly


Tim wrote:
I bought a model on Ebay that was well painted, but it looks like
it got a Future "dip" -- the thing is just ridiculously shiny ALL
OVER. So I'm afraid this one is headed for the stripper... Since this
is the
only model that I've seen finished with Future, I am not terribly
impressed with the stuff. I'm sure it has its uses, but use it in
moderation!

Tim O'Connor


leakinmywaders
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "leakinmywaders" <leakinmywaders@...> wrote:

Tim and Mont:
I have made my share of mistakes with Future, and had some satisfying
successes. In between those two outcomes, I've found you can repair
a botched Future job
Oops, I forgot to turn that into a question...yikes.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT


Tim O'Connor
 

Bill that sounds like a good idea, but then I'd have to buy ammonia and
floor cleaner... I kinda like Mont's idea of a light grit blasting. At least with
that I already have the materials...

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Bill Kelly <wbkelly@juno.com>
Tim,
Maybe you can just strip the Future. The instructions on the bottle say
that it can be removed with a solution of 1 cup ammonia and 1/4 cup
Armstrong Floor Cleaner in 1/2 gallon cool water, then rinse with clean
water. I've never tried this but it's worth a shot.
If you choose this route let us know how it works.
Later,
Bill Kelly


Tim wrote:
I bought a model on Ebay that was well painted, but it looks like
it got a Future "dip" -- the thing is just ridiculously shiny ALL
OVER. So I'm afraid this one is headed for the stripper... Since this
is the
only model that I've seen finished with Future, I am not terribly
impressed with the stuff. I'm sure it has its uses, but use it in
moderation!

Tim O'Connor


Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
 

Tim

You do know you can apply almost any flat varnish over the Future? The
idea of Future is that it is ridiculously shiny - the decals stick
better than way and don't run the same chance of silvering.

You can also flatten Future using the Tamiya "Flat Base" available at
decent stores that cater to plane and armor modellers - treat the
future like any other acrylic varnish and add the flat base until it
is fully mixed in.

Flattened Future retains it's self levelling qualities but dries
anywhere between not quite full gloss and dead matt depending on how
much base you use. Paint, then gloss coat with Future, decal and
weather then apply flattened Future to seal and kill the gloss.

Aidrian

I bought a model on Ebay that was well painted, but it looks like it
got a Future "dip" -- the thing is just ridiculously shiny ALL OVER.
So I'm afraid this one is headed for the stripper... <<


Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks Aidrian, that sounds good. I have yet to try the Alclad II
Stainless Steel over Tamiya Gloss Black either, but I look forward
to experimenting.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton" <smokeandsteam@gmail.com>
Tim

You do know you can apply almost any flat varnish over the Future? The
idea of Future is that it is ridiculously shiny - the decals stick
better than way and don't run the same chance of silvering.

You can also flatten Future using the Tamiya "Flat Base" available at
decent stores that cater to plane and armor modellers - treat the
future like any other acrylic varnish and add the flat base until it
is fully mixed in.

Flattened Future retains it's self levelling qualities but dries
anywhere between not quite full gloss and dead matt depending on how
much base you use. Paint, then gloss coat with Future, decal and
weather then apply flattened Future to seal and kill the gloss.

Aidrian

I bought a model on Ebay that was well painted, but it looks like it
got a Future "dip" -- the thing is just ridiculously shiny ALL OVER.
So I'm afraid this one is headed for the stripper... <<



Yahoo! Groups Links



Frank Tauss <ftauss@...>
 

First post and very long winded after reviewing it but...

As well as my reawakening interest in model RR I am also a static modeler of mostly military subjects, almost anything air, land and sea. I can say that static modelers of all types literally swear by Future. It's cheap, can be washed off easily, is self leveling, dries quickly and can be mixed with a multitude of acrylic/water based paints, particularly Tamiya clear colors for tinting canopies on aircraft, green or smoke being mixed with the Future - which might work for tinting passenger car windows...

It seems to be very compatible with all sorts of paints, it is frequently used as a sealer over oil based paints to protect the dried paint while weathering with more oil based paints.

I have used it thinned with ordinary tap water, rubbing alcohol and also Tamiya acrylic paint thinner, the last used in conjunction with thier Flat Base - Flat Base is not a paint exactly, it cannot be simply thinned and sprayed or brushed it is intended to be mixed with Tamiya paints to produce varying degrees of flatness. I use it when making acrylic "sludge" and rust for weathering to ensure a flat finish where I want it. There are varying ratios of Flat Base to Future to thinner which allow a range of finishes from gloss such as 1950s era US Navy aircraft in the all blue scheme (no Flat Base obviously) to semi gloss (don't remember, I really need to start taking notes about this stuff) such as a grey C-5 Galaxy to a dead flat which I have seen but been unable to duplicate yet.

I personally think Flat Base is the best for flattening Future. Like I said it really isn't paint so much as a liquid flattening agent. There is considerably less carrier in it than other flat finish paints and therefore I believe it to be more controllable - you're thinning with your thinner be it Tamiya's or alcohol and no skewing the ratio as with clear flat paint where you add more to get more flattening agent but you also thin it at the same time.

Testors Dull Coat in the rattle can is a bit hit and miss. It goes over dry Future nicely but it can vary in finish if not careful. I like to put the can in a bowl of hot water and really shake it up good then carefully spray from say an medium distance (sitting at work sorta guessing 8" to 12") moving quickly over the surface leaving it just slightly but evenly wet, resist the tempatation to overdo it. It usually isn't dead flat but very few things in life are, but it tends to really blend paint with the decals since sometimes camoflage colors will actually dry to a different reflective finish, so you may have 3 or 4 levels of shine from flat to semigloss - not very realistic.

Applying Future before decaling would blend these but I don't do the whole aircraft unless it is going to be glossy anyway. Flat finish vehicles just get lite sprays or even just brush strokes in the area of the decals. You can also use Future to lay down decals but I've only done it on better quality kit decals on fairly regular surfaces but the edges hid nicely.

I have some of the Dull Coat in the bottle with the thinner to try in airbrush but am just to lazy with the rattle cans around.

A very knowledgable armor modeler has told me that Floquil Dust is the best flattening finish if you are going to weather/dirty up your finished item. I would agree. I use it straight from the larger bottle with a cap adaptor for my Badgers. It is thin enough to really not need any more thinning and does not build up quickly which gives you time to judge where your dust goes. I recently did a Russian T-34 fresh off a road march in dry country, the front is almost obscured from the dust from the leading vehicles, as is the lower sides from the vehicles own tracks but much less so on the upper hull, turret sides and rear and engine deck. The turret markings (30+ year old Revell decals) went down beautifully - better than I expected or deserved - using Walters decal solution and the "Dust" to cover them.

The "Dust" also works over Future - but let the Future dry at least overnite if not a couple of days. (I didn't use Future on the T-34 as the paint I used has a natural semi gloss finish that more accurately reproduces "new" paint and is good for decals.)

In short - Future is really the best bet to seal for decaling. It will not obscure detail if applied carefully. And it can be doctored up with many different blends of paints, it's cheap and clean up is very easy.

It supposedly can even be used to attach photoetch detail parts, though I would think you would need a relatively large contact area and I would not do so in an area that I expected to get any kind of regular handling.

Frank,
Long winded as usual


Frank Tauss <ftauss@...>
 

It should be noted that newer Floquil is actually an enamel as far as
I can tell and according to others I know.

A company called RPM appears to have bought up all the former paint
makers in the US and they are the parent of Testors and I beleive
they make all the hobby paint in the US for thier own house brands
and as a supplier for other specialty. Floquil, Model Master and
square bottle Testors all smell about he same to me (as do some other
smaller botique specialty lines) which suggests the formulary is
pretty close with variations for pigments and cost concerns. They all
seem to thin well with lacqure thinner (but be careful as this can
really hurt plastic), branded hobby thinners and various paint
thinners/mineral spirits purchased at the hardware store where in
some cases it is possible to pay less for a gallon of thinner than
those little 8 oz hobby cans with no discernible difference in
performance.

Polly Scale has a very distinctive smell that hasn't changed a little
over the years and Model Master acrylics are a horse of a different
color altogether.

My $0.02
Frank


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Jack Burgess <jack@...> wrote:

The current issue of Finescale Modeler has an insert on air-
brushing of
acrylic paints (but I will still stick with Floquil) and an article
on
the use of Future. In reading past articles in Finescale Modeler,
it
seems that Future is the primary choice for plane, automobile, etc.
modelers. I haven't used it yet in an airbrush but have brush
painted it
on just portions of wood models to allow for decaling and it worked
just
fine. I'm sure that it won't hurt the Floquil. You need to be
careful
only if applying a heavy coat of a lacquer-based paint (such as
Floquil)
over an enamel or water-based paint...

Jack Burgess
yosemitevalleyrr.com


hummerdaves
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Barry Roth <barry_roth@...> wrote:

Dave (or anyone),

Is the reason for using distilled water so that on drying it will
not leave a whitish deposit of dissolved salts? Or is there another
reason, such as the effect on the decals themselves?

Also, is the alcohol in the formula below ordinary rubbing
alcohol (70% isopropanol), or another kind?

Thanks,

Barry Roth

Barry, The distilled water is to keep things ''clean'' no
chemicals such as any chlorine or what ever else might be in tap
water.
The alcohol is 70% and yes it is isopropyl.
I can send you a photo of a model with Future as a base if you like.

.




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com



Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Unless the gloss coat is so thick as to make the model appear as if it is covered in syrup, I would simply apply an acrylic flat coat.

KL

----- Original Message -----

timboconnor@comcast.net wrote:

I bought a model on Ebay that was well painted, but it looks like it
got a Future "dip" -- the thing is just ridiculously shiny ALL OVER.
So I'm afraid this one is headed for the stripper... Since this is the
only model that I've seen finished with Future, I am not terribly
impressed with the stuff. I'm sure it has its uses, but use it in
moderation!