Atlas ICC 105 tank


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 19, 2007, at 5:45 AM, Garth Groff wrote:

Yes, LP gas would have been a better term. My fictional Sacramento
Northern Pennington Branch will include a fuel dealer, and was
thinking
LP gas would be an appropriate product. Mind you, I have no evidence
of
such cars on the SN, but it is very likely that by the late 1950s
there
were dealers that would have received by rail. I remember LP gas or
propane being delivered by truck in northern California when I was
growing up in the 1950s. Since I am concentrating on SHPX and UTLX
regular tank cars, I think I will look for those road names among the
Atlas 105s.
LP gas rapidly became popular following World War II as a household and
industrial fuel in rural areas which were not served by natural gas
pipelines; that's why so many ICC-105s were built new in the late '40s
and early '50s. And most regional distributors received it by rail.
BTW, however, I have a photo of a California Despatch Line ICC-105
which was not in LP gas service but was used to haul anhydrous ammonia,
so not all ICC-105s carried propane and butane.

Richard Hendrickson


Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

John,

Yes, LP gas would have been a better term. My fictional Sacramento Northern Pennington Branch will include a fuel dealer, and was thinking LP gas would be an appropriate product. Mind you, I have no evidence of such cars on the SN, but it is very likely that by the late 1950s there were dealers that would have received by rail. I remember LP gas or propane being delivered by truck in northern California when I was growing up in the 1950s. Since I am concentrating on SHPX and UTLX regular tank cars, I think I will look for those road names among the Atlas 105s.

Thanks much for sharing your research.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

John Hile wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Garth Groff <ggg9y@...> wrote:

Friends,

Besides California Despatch, what other roadnames of the Atlas ICC 105 tank might have been seen in California in natural gas service?

Thanks much.


Garth,

I assumes when you said "natural gas" you meant products of natural
gas such as LPG. I have been researching California industries in an
effort to build a reasonable freight car fleet for the Santa Fe's
Valley Division late '52 to mid '53. Here is the little I have so far
on LPG cars beyond those mentioned by Richard...

The Sunray Oil Corp (SUYX) lists ICC105A300W's in the 1/53 ORER and
shows a "home point" for cars as Santa Maria, CA (Santa Maria Vy RR) The Atlas cars are SHPX and leased to Sunray, but I have not
researched these cars yet, nor determined what products originated for
Sunray at Santa Maria.

Anchor Petroleum Co (ANPX) has ICC105A300W's in the 1/53 ORER and
lists one of their home points as Gulf, CA (Sunset Ry). I still have
to determine what products Anchor produced at the Gulf, CA facility,
but significant natural gas and petroleum deposits were found in Kern
Co. See Ed's posts in response to my inquiries on these Atlas cars.
Pacific Gas Corp leased cars from Republic Tank Car Co (RTCX) and
Kaminski's ACF tank book has photos on p 174, 175 of RTCX cars leased
to Pacific, but (at a minimum) the lettering styles/schemes are
different than any of the Atlas RTCX models. One of my sources shows
Pacific with a gas field in Kern County, circa 1949.

That source (Mineral Commodities of California, 1950) lists the
largest of the 74 operating CA gas processing plants as of the close
of 1948. The LPG plants are:

Standard Oil of CA at Kettleman Hills (UTLX)
Ohio Oil Co at South Coles Levee
General Petroleum Corp at Athens
Western Gulf Oil Co at Paloma

Perhaps others on the list may know what cars (if any) the other
companies may have used.

Hope this helps,

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA








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John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

On Nov 17, 2007, at 6:05 AM, John Hile wrote:

Anchor Petroleum Co (ANPX) has ICC105A300W's in the 1/53 ORER and
lists one of their home points as Gulf, CA (Sunset Ry). I still have
to determine what products Anchor produced at the Gulf, CA facility,
but significant natural gas and petroleum deposits were found in Kern
Co.
I have a Stan Kistler photo of a steam-era train on the Sunset Ry.
which included an Anchor ICC-105, so Anchor was apparently hauling LPG
from its facility in the Taft area.

Richard Hendrickson

Thanks Richard, that is very helpful.

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 17, 2007, at 2:15 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Richard, Atlas did a second run of Warren cars in the correct
light gray paint (e.g. Atlas #1032-4). They also did black Warren
cars (Atlas #1077-x).
Thanks, Tim. I'll order one, and probably repaint the one I have black
and decal it UTLX with Steve Hile's nice lettering set.

Richard Hendrickson


D. Scott Chatfield
 

Andy S wrote:

Atlas appears to have corrected the color of its Warren car. I saw
one new in its box in a hobby shop last weekend that was light gray
instead of aluminum.

Andy is correct. I have one of each in my hands. Part #s 1032-1 and -2 have silver on their tanks, #s 1032-3 and -4 have light gray.

Scott Chatfield


Tim O'Connor
 

Richard, Atlas did a second run of Warren cars in the correct
light gray paint (e.g. Atlas #1032-4). They also did black Warren
cars (Atlas #1077-x).

Tim O'Connor

Union Tank Line and Shippers Car Line leased cars were common in
Calif.; both had sizable fleets of ICC 105s. Warren cars were also
common, but unfortunately the Atlas model is painted the wrong color,
and that's not easy to fix. The Warren cars were light gray (NOT
aluminum) with black underframes and bottom sheets and green valve
casings.

Richard Hendrickson


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 17, 2007, at 6:05 AM, John Hile wrote:

Anchor Petroleum Co (ANPX) has ICC105A300W's in the 1/53 ORER and
lists one of their home points as Gulf, CA (Sunset Ry). I still have
to determine what products Anchor produced at the Gulf, CA facility,
but significant natural gas and petroleum deposits were found in Kern
Co.
I have a Stan Kistler photo of a steam-era train on the Sunset Ry.
which included an Anchor ICC-105, so Anchor was apparently hauling LPG
from its facility in the Taft area.

Richard Hendrickson


John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Garth Groff <ggg9y@...> wrote:

Friends,

Besides California Despatch, what other roadnames of the Atlas ICC 105
tank might have been seen in California in natural gas service?

Thanks much.

Garth,

I assumes when you said "natural gas" you meant products of natural
gas such as LPG. I have been researching California industries in an
effort to build a reasonable freight car fleet for the Santa Fe's
Valley Division late '52 to mid '53. Here is the little I have so far
on LPG cars beyond those mentioned by Richard...

The Sunray Oil Corp (SUYX) lists ICC105A300W's in the 1/53 ORER and
shows a "home point" for cars as Santa Maria, CA (Santa Maria Vy RR)
The Atlas cars are SHPX and leased to Sunray, but I have not
researched these cars yet, nor determined what products originated for
Sunray at Santa Maria.

Anchor Petroleum Co (ANPX) has ICC105A300W's in the 1/53 ORER and
lists one of their home points as Gulf, CA (Sunset Ry). I still have
to determine what products Anchor produced at the Gulf, CA facility,
but significant natural gas and petroleum deposits were found in Kern
Co. See Ed's posts in response to my inquiries on these Atlas cars.

Pacific Gas Corp leased cars from Republic Tank Car Co (RTCX) and
Kaminski's ACF tank book has photos on p 174, 175 of RTCX cars leased
to Pacific, but (at a minimum) the lettering styles/schemes are
different than any of the Atlas RTCX models. One of my sources shows
Pacific with a gas field in Kern County, circa 1949.

That source (Mineral Commodities of California, 1950) lists the
largest of the 74 operating CA gas processing plants as of the close
of 1948. The LPG plants are:

Standard Oil of CA at Kettleman Hills (UTLX)
Ohio Oil Co at South Coles Levee
General Petroleum Corp at Athens
Western Gulf Oil Co at Paloma

Perhaps others on the list may know what cars (if any) the other
companies may have used.

Hope this helps,

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 16, 2007, at 9:19 AM, Andy Sperandeo wrote:

Hi Richard,

Atlas appears to have corrected the color of its Warren car. I saw
one new
in its box in a hobby shop last weekend that was light gray instead of
aluminum.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142



Richard Hendrickson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Clark Propst wrote:
Ed, I've 'sort of' joked with Sam Clarke about them doing the UTLX or GATX cars. He told me at Trainfest their next model won't be a tank car. Of course what else could he say?
Reminds of when a Microsoft executive was asked if it was true that they were negotiating to buy Yahoo. He said, "If we were, I wouldn't tell you, and if we weren't, I wouldn't tell you."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 


Joe,
I have a suggestion on what to "fix" the Atlas model. Have Kadee do
it
correctly!
Regards,
Ed Hawkins
Ed, I've 'sort of' joked with Sam Clarke about them doing the UTLX or
GATX cars. He told me at Trainfest their next model won't be a tank
car. Of course what else could he say? He threw me out of their booth
in St Paul, muttering something about not being able to being guns on
airplanes, when I showed my friends their coal hopper in a movie they
were showing before it was released.
Clark Propst


Ed Hawkins
 

On Nov 16, 2007, at 12:57 PM, joe binish wrote:

Do you think we could strong-arm Mr Black Cat into making a
"definitive"
set? Allen mentioned to me at Naperville that he is looking for some
sets
to work up in his "spare" time. A set of instructions on what to fix
on the
Atlas car would be a nice addendum.
My 2 cents....
Joe Binish
Joe,
I have a suggestion on what to "fix" the Atlas model. Have Kadee do it
correctly!
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

joe binish wrote:
Do you think we could strong-arm Mr Black Cat into making a "definitive" set? Allen mentioned to me at Naperville that he is looking for some sets to work up in his "spare" time. A set of instructions on what to fix on the Atlas car would be a nice addendum.
Excellent suggestion, Joe. We could also use the white Warren lettering for the black cars. I'd love to have accurate versions of both schemes.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


joe binish <joebinish@...>
 

Do you think we could strong-arm Mr Black Cat into making a "definitive" set? Allen mentioned to me at Naperville that he is looking for some sets to work up in his "spare" time. A set of instructions on what to fix on the Atlas car would be a nice addendum.
My 2 cents....
Joe Binish

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Atlas ICC 105 tank


On Nov 16, 2007, at 9:02 AM, joe binish wrote:

I have a decorated Atlas car that I flat coated and weathered. Still
not
enough. One day(in the future) I will strip, repaint and decal. The
car
looks really good if you scrape off the grabs around the dome and
replace
with wire grabs.
I've considered the same rememdy, but currently there are no accurate
decals for the Warren cars; the old Champ set is seriously lame.
Another problem with all of the Atlas ICC-105s is that there are
riveted strips under the running boards on each side, somewhat offset
from center, which weren't on the prototype cars and have to be
removed., I was puzzled for awhile about why these were there and then
I realized that the die maker (presumably Chinese) misinterpreted the
prototype photos and thought the riveted flanges of the center anchor
were underneath the running boards. Of course, the model therefore has
no center anchor, so that needs to be added as well. Most other
manufacturers would have caught this obvious error, but Atlas is
notorious for mistakes of this kind (e.g., the bolster blunder on the
Roger-Hart Convertible ballast hopper models).

Richard Hendrickson






Yahoo! Groups Links




Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 16, 2007, at 9:02 AM, joe binish wrote:

I have a decorated Atlas car that I flat coated and weathered. Still
not
enough. One day(in the future) I will strip, repaint and decal. The
car
looks really good if you scrape off the grabs around the dome and
replace
with wire grabs.
I've considered the same rememdy, but currently there are no accurate
decals for the Warren cars; the old Champ set is seriously lame.
Another problem with all of the Atlas ICC-105s is that there are
riveted strips under the running boards on each side, somewhat offset
from center, which weren't on the prototype cars and have to be
removed., I was puzzled for awhile about why these were there and then
I realized that the die maker (presumably Chinese) misinterpreted the
prototype photos and thought the riveted flanges of the center anchor
were underneath the running boards. Of course, the model therefore has
no center anchor, so that needs to be added as well. Most other
manufacturers would have caught this obvious error, but Atlas is
notorious for mistakes of this kind (e.g., the bolster blunder on the
Roger-Hart Convertible ballast hopper models).

Richard Hendrickson


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hi Richard,

Atlas appears to have corrected the color of its Warren car. I saw one new
in its box in a hobby shop last weekend that was light gray instead of
aluminum.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


joe binish <joebinish@...>
 

I have a decorated Atlas car that I flat coated and weathered. Still not enough. One day(in the future) I will strip, repaint and decal. The car looks really good if you scrape off the grabs around the dome and replace with wire grabs.

Joe Binish

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Atlas ICC 105 tank


On Nov 16, 2007, at 3:57 AM, Garth Groff wrote:

Besides California Despatch, what other roadnames of the Atlas ICC 105
tank might have been seen in California in natural gas service?
Union Tank Line and Shippers Car Line leased cars were common in
Calif.; both had sizable fleets of ICC 105s. Warren cars were also
common, but unfortunately the Atlas model is painted the wrong color,
and that's not easy to fix. The Warren cars were light gray (NOT
aluminum) with black underframes and bottom sheets and green valve
casings.

Richard Hendrickson






Yahoo! Groups Links




Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 16, 2007, at 3:57 AM, Garth Groff wrote:

Besides California Despatch, what other roadnames of the Atlas ICC 105
tank might have been seen in California in natural gas service?
Union Tank Line and Shippers Car Line leased cars were common in
Calif.; both had sizable fleets of ICC 105s. Warren cars were also
common, but unfortunately the Atlas model is painted the wrong color,
and that's not easy to fix. The Warren cars were light gray (NOT
aluminum) with black underframes and bottom sheets and green valve
casings.

Richard Hendrickson


Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Friends,

Besides California Despatch, what other roadnames of the Atlas ICC 105 tank might have been seen in California in natural gas service?

Thanks much.


Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Ed Hawkins wrote:

On Nov 14, 2007, at 10:48 AM, John Hile wrote:


I have been able to confirm the 1951 built date from Richard
Hendrickson's article in the July 2003 Railmodel Journal. In that
article, there is a photo (Bob's/Col. Chet McCoid) of ANPX 120 and
Richard's caption gives the built date. The photo was taken Sept.
1957, and the scheme matches that on the Atlas model.

My January 1953 ORER, however, does not list an ANPX number series
that would include these cars. There are several listings for ICC
105A300W tanks, but they are in the 2010 to 3570 range and vary in
capy from 10,500 gal to 11,014 gal.

So, my questions are:
1) When new in 1951, did these cars carry the same paint scheme?
2) When new, what number did this car (or cars in this lot) carry?
John,
The photo of ANPX 120 has a build date of 5-51. It was built by AC&F and it generally matches the Atlas model (as close as the model allows). I can say with certainty that AC&F didn't build the car for Anchor Petroleum.

AC&F lot 3553 was 200 cars for Sunray Oil Co. (SUYX 101-300). I have never been able to locate the AC&F builder's photo for this series of cars. The AC&F bill of materials for this lot number provides information only on the underframe and trucks. Your 1/53 ORER likely lists the SUYX 101-300 series cars. Sometime between 1/53 and the 4/55, the cars became ANPX 101-300. I don't have immediate access to any ORERs in between, so perhaps others can help pinpoint when the change was made. Hope this helps answer your question.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins







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