Tank Car Co. names beginning with Sun.


Dan Gledhill
 

Hello ,
I've been trying to identify an early rivetted tank car that has only part of it's original company name left on it's upper side.The name as I can best make out begins with the word SUN in dark 8 to 10 inch Roman print and ends with the words OIL COMPANY in the same style.It appears as if the dome may have been silver and also the upper tank,as a little of the original paint exists on the tanks top surfaces.There is some smaller lettering stenciled on the cars lower sides ,which is approx. 3 to 4 inchs high and reads LOS ANGELIS while further along the cars side in similar print are the name CALIFORNIA.
With all the recent posts on Atlas tank car 105 lately and several mentions of California oil companies having the name SUN in them ,hopefully someone could help identify this one.
Tanks in Advance
Dan Gledhill



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Robert <riverob@...>
 

Could it be Sun Oil Company, later Sunoco?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunoco


Robert Simpson


--- In STMFC@..., Dan Gledhill <gledhilldan@...> wrote:

Hello ,
I've been trying to identify an early rivetted tank car
that has only part of it's original company name left on it's upper
side.The name as I can best make out begins with the word SUN in dark
8 to 10 inch Roman print and ends with the words OIL COMPANY in the
same style.It appears as if the dome may have been silver and also
the upper tank,as a little of the original paint exists on the tanks
top surfaces.There is some smaller lettering stenciled on the cars
lower sides ,which is approx. 3 to 4 inchs high and reads LOS ANGELIS
while further along the cars side in similar print are the name
CALIFORNIA.
With all the recent posts on Atlas tank car 105 lately and
several mentions of California oil companies having the name SUN in
them ,hopefully someone could help identify this one.
Tanks in Advance
Dan
Gledhill



---------------------------------
Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to
Yahoo! Answers.



Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Robert Simpson wrote:
Could it be Sun Oil Company, later Sunoco?
And lettered for Los Angeles? Not very likely.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


destron@...
 

Sunray Oil, perhaps? Just at a blind-fire guess.

Slightly related, in that it is tank cars: I have a photo of a tank car
marked "Union Oil Co of Canada, Vancouver, BC", UOKX 10010. Did this have
anything to do with the Union Oil Co of California? I don't know the date
of the photo, but it is on archbar trucks. Does anyone have an idea around
what time this may have been? UOKX is not listed in 1953 ORER... was it
listed previously?

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

Robert Simpson wrote:
Could it be Sun Oil Company, later Sunoco?
And lettered for Los Angeles? Not very likely.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




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Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 18, 2007, at 10:22 AM, Robert wrote:

Could it be Sun Oil Company, later Sunoco?
No. because the Sun Oil Co. was entirely an east coast operation (and
later midwestern, after it acquired DX). It had no offices in Los
Angeles, no western production facilities, and no wholesale or retail
operations in the western US.

Richard Hendrickson


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 18, 2007, at 11:10 AM, destron@... wrote:

... I have a photo of a tank car
marked "Union Oil Co of Canada, Vancouver, BC", UOKX 10010. Did this
have
anything to do with the Union Oil Co of California? I don't know the
date
of the photo, but it is on archbar trucks. Does anyone have an idea
around
what time this may have been? UOKX is not listed in 1953 ORER... was
it
listed previously?
Union Oil of Canada was Union Oil of California's western Canadian
subsidiary. I have several photos of UOKX cars dating from the late
1920s. The 11/31 ORER shows 70 cars under OKX reporting marks. By
1945, 55 of those cars were still listed in the ORER, but they were
gone by 1947 and the entire Union Oil tank car fleet had been
renumbered, so it's hard to tell whether they were sold or absorbed
into the UOCX fleet.

Richard Hendrickson


Doug Rhodes
 

The short answer is yes - it was the Canadian subsidiary of Union Oil of California, active mostly in the 1930s and 1940s and its British Columbia operation was closely intertwined with that of Imperial Oil (Esso etc)

A great resource for tracking reporting marks is run by Ian Cranstone at http://www.nakina.net/report.html The listings for UOKX are at http://www.nakina.net/reportu.html and show the following:

UOKX Union Oil Co. of Canada, Ltd. (Union Oil Co. of California)7/1930-7/1932
UOKX Union Oil Co. of Canada, Ltd.7/1937-1/1945
UOKX British American Oil Co. Ltd.1/1946-4/1947

BA acquired assets of Union Oil Co. of Canada after WW2, including the location on Burrard Inlet (Unocan) that became Britamoco, so that last line makes sense in that regard.

Is your photo at an accessible location? I'd be interested to have a close look at it.

Doug Rhodes

----- Original Message -----
From: destron@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tank Car Co. names beginning with Sun.



>>snipped


Slightly related, in that it is tank cars: I have a photo of a tank car
marked "Union Oil Co of Canada, Vancouver, BC", UOKX 10010. Did this have
anything to do with the Union Oil Co of California? I don't know the date
of the photo, but it is on archbar trucks. Does anyone have an idea around
what time this may have been? UOKX is not listed in 1953 ORER... was it
listed previously?

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC


.


destron@...
 

The short answer is yes - it was the Canadian subsidiary of Union Oil of
California, active mostly in the 1930s and 1940s and its British Columbia
operation was closely intertwined with that of Imperial Oil (Esso etc)

A great resource for tracking reporting marks is run by Ian Cranstone at
http://www.nakina.net/report.html The listings for UOKX are at
http://www.nakina.net/reportu.html and show the following:
Thanks for that; answered a question on another tank car photo I have
(NSOX 328) - North Star Oil was absorbed into Shell Canada.

Is your photo at an accessible location? I'd be interested to have a close
look at it.
I can send you a copy if you want - I have digital copy from the original.
I've also got photos of the NSOX cars as mentioned, as well as several IOX
cars (2031, 4154, 4253, 4280, 6032), CGTX 63844 (?? number is hard to make
out), COBX 1986, EBAX 326, PQCX 104 and UTLX 228.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

-----
http://hydrorail.hostwq.net/index.html - Rails along the Fraser
http://hydrorail.rrpicturearchives.net/ - Rail Photos


SUVCWORR@...
 

In a message dated 11/18/2007 2:15:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
destron@... writes:

Sunray Oil, perhaps? Just at a blind-fire guess.

Slightly related, in that it is tank cars: I have a photo of a tank car
marked "Union Oil Co of Canada, Vancouver, BC", UOKX 10010. Did this have
anything to do with the Union Oil Co of California? I don't know the date
of the photo, but it is on archbar trucks. Does anyone have an idea around
what time this may have been? UOKX is not listed in 1953 ORER... was it
listed previously?



From _http://www.nakina.net/report.html_ (http://www.nakina.net/report.html)

UOKX = Union Oil of Canada LTD (Union Oil of California) 7/1930 - 7/1932
Union Oil of Canada 7/1937 - 1/1945
British American Oil 1/1946 - 1/1947

Rich Orr



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


LOUIS WHITELEY <octoraro1@...>
 

The 1953 ORER lists Sunland Refining Corp. with reporting marks S.R.X. with only two ARA type II cars. The company was in Fresno.

Sunray Oil corporation with reporting marks S.U.Y.X. had 300 cars: 200 ICC105A300W pressurized cars (welded) and 100 ICC 103 tank cars, which could have been riveted. Sunray lists several home points, mostly in Oklahoma, but also Santa Maria, CA.

Neither company lists L.A. in this issue.

The Sunset Railway Company, previously mentioned I believe, was listed under ATSF and bills were directed to the treasurer in Los Angeles.

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ


Dan Gledhill <gledhilldan@...> wrote:
Hello ,
I've been trying to identify an early rivetted tank car that has only part of it's original company name left on it's upper side.The name as I can best make out begins with the word SUN in dark 8 to 10 inch Roman print and ends with the words OIL COMPANY in the same style.It appears as if the dome may have been silver and also the upper tank,as a little of the original paint exists on the tanks top surfaces.There is some smaller lettering stenciled on the cars lower sides ,which is approx. 3 to 4 inchs high and reads LOS ANGELIS while further along the cars side in similar print are the name CALIFORNIA.
With all the recent posts on Atlas tank car 105 lately and several mentions of California oil companies having the name SUN in them ,hopefully someone could help identify this one.
Tanks in Advance
Dan Gledhill


---------------------------------
Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers.


Tim O'Connor
 

Just to muddy the waters... I have a 1957 slide of SRDX 2601
in Los Angeles, lettered for "D-X Sunray Oil Co" of Tulsa OK.

I have several 1960's photos of Sunoco tank cars in Texas but
that is past the STMFC era.

Couldn't specialized lubricating products be shipped across
the country in tank cars?

Tim O'Connor

Could it be Sun Oil Company, later Sunoco?
No. because the Sun Oil Co. was entirely an east coast operation (and
later midwestern, after it acquired DX). It had no offices in Los
Angeles, no western production facilities, and no wholesale or retail
operations in the western US.

Richard Hendrickson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Lou Whiteley wrote:
The Sunset Railway Company, previously mentioned I believe, was listed under ATSF and bills were directed to the treasurer in Los Angeles.
The Sunset Railway was operated in alternate five-year periods by ATSF and SP, so how you find it listed depends on which year you look at. Certainly since 1920 it had no rolling stock of its own, to the best of my knowledge.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Couldn't specialized lubricating products be shipped across the country in tank cars?
Sure, but without retail outlets at the destination, why bother?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tim O'Connor
 

Why must there be a retailer? Large industries and transport
companies buy lube oil by the carload.

At 11/18/2007 07:49 PM Sunday, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Couldn't specialized lubricating products be shipped across the
country in tank cars?
Sure, but without retail outlets at the destination, why bother?

Tony Thompson


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Piling on . . .



There could have been a repackaging of the contents in the area, and sales by retailers in smaller
quantities, could there not?

SGL



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 8:02 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tank Car Co. names beginning with Sun.




Why must there be a retailer? Large industries and transport
companies buy lube oil by the carload.

At 11/18/2007 07:49 PM Sunday, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Couldn't specialized lubricating products be shipped across the
country in tank cars?
Sure, but without retail outlets at the destination, why bother?

Tony Thompson


John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Dan Gledhill <gledhilldan@...> wrote:

Hello ,
I've been trying to identify an early rivetted tank car
that has only part of it's original company name left on it's upper
side.The name as I can best make out begins with the word SUN in dark
8 to 10 inch Roman print and ends with the words OIL COMPANY in the
same style.It appears as if the dome may have been silver and also the
upper tank,as a little of the original paint exists on the tanks top
surfaces.There is some smaller lettering stenciled on the cars lower
sides ,which is approx. 3 to 4 inchs high and reads LOS ANGELIS while
further along the cars side in similar print are the name CALIFORNIA.
With all the recent posts on Atlas tank car 105 lately and
several mentions of California oil companies having the name SUN in
them ,hopefully someone could help identify this one.
Tanks in Advance
Dan
Gledhill

Hello Dan,

Below is what I could find in my resources. Nothing definitive
regarding your tank car, but perhaps somehow useful nonetheless.

Petroleum product suppliers with names that start with "Sun" listed
for California locations in my 1927 Freight Shippers Guide to the
Santa Fe:

San Francisco: Sunset Monarch Oil Co.; Sunset Oil Co.
Los Angeles: Sun Oil Co. of Philadelphia

What cars these companies may have had in this era I do not know, as
my oldest ORER is 1943.

I also have similar notes to those already posted regarding Sunland
Oil being located in Fresno and have a note about a Sunland refinery
in Bakersfield.

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Why must there be a retailer? Large industries and transport
companies buy lube oil by the carload.

Tim,

Ran across the following in "Enterprise in Oil" while looking up
another matter...

"Even with the expanding domestic market it enjoyed during the
Twenties, Shell in common with most California refiners, continued to
sell on the export market - a term used in California to designate all
sales not destined for Pacific Coast points. During 1927, Shell of
California turned increasingly to this offshore market, selling
substantial quantities of gasoline and kerosene to Atlantic Seaboard
refining and marketing companies such as Standard of New Jersey,
Socony, Sun, Amoco, Atlantic Refining, and others who were taking
advantage of the low prices then prevalent in California."

There is, of course, no evidence here to suggest any of these
shipments were sent by rail. It does, however, seem to show that
market forces led to interesting business arrangements.


John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "John Hile" <john66h@...> wrote:

Petroleum product suppliers with names that start with "Sun" listed
for California locations in my 1927 Freight Shippers Guide to the
Santa Fe:

San Francisco: Sunset Monarch Oil Co.; Sunset Oil Co.
Los Angeles: Sun Oil Co. of Philadelphia

Dan,

Checked one of my online resources, and found an image of a Los
Angeles City map from Sunset Oil Company, Los Angeles, California.
The site says it is from 1946, and that Sunset was purchased by
Wilshire approx. 1957.

Here is the address of the image: http://www.gassigns.org/sunset.htm

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Dan Gledhill
 

Hello John,
Thanks for the link to the images for Sunset Oil Company.I think we may be on to something here.The printing shown at the top of the oil can images is almost identical to that which remains on the rivetted tank car in question.Could be coincidental but it is a somewhat unique early style of print.
Briefly I will say that the car is a10,000 gallon car built by Standard Car in I believe 1926.I described this car in more detail earlier in the year on this site,so we know what it was ,just not how it was painted.It would be truly great to find a photo of some of this fleet but it was likely one of very few painted the same.
The car was numbered CDLX 1051 ,and we know that it received some servicing in the Portland area as the frame was stencilled REPKD.A.T.6-6-37 U.P.R.R.
Sunset oil Co.I am led to believe may have marketed their products in the Portland area ,but why the car would come north on the UP instead of the SP is unknown.
Any idea where Sunset Oil did their refining or where they would have got their crude oil?
Regards,Dan Gledhill
John Hile <john66h@...> wrote:
--- In STMFC@..., "John Hile" <john66h@...> wrote:

Petroleum product suppliers with names that start with "Sun" listed
for California locations in my 1927 Freight Shippers Guide to the
Santa Fe:

San Francisco: Sunset Monarch Oil Co.; Sunset Oil Co.
Los Angeles: Sun Oil Co. of Philadelphia
Dan,

Checked one of my online resources, and found an image of a Los
Angeles City map from Sunset Oil Company, Los Angeles, California.
The site says it is from 1946, and that Sunset was purchased by
Wilshire approx. 1957.

Here is the address of the image: http://www.gassigns.org/sunset.htm

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA






---------------------------------
Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers.


John Hile <john66h@...>
 

Dan,

I found a reference to a Sunset Oil Co. having an oil field or lease
in Texas in 1939 on a web site which lists the oil field
maps/documents on file at the Texas State Archives. Below are
addresses to parts 1 & 2 of the list.

Part 1: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/tslac/20085/tsl-20085.html
Part 2: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/tslac/20142/tsl-20142.html

Sunset is shown in part 1. Others may know if Sunset refined and
shipped from Texas, or shipped crude to be refined in CA - and whether
any of these products went by rail. Sunset may have simply sold their
Texas crude (and natural gas if found) "at the well head" to local
companies to process and sell for themselves.

The only other thing close that I have are numerous mentions of the
huge Midway-Sunset oil field in Kern Co., CA, initially struck around
1900. The field could have been named for a Sunset Co. well, claim,
or lease, although ultimately numerous oil companies drilled and
continue to extract oil from the field. Conversely, the Sunset Co.
may have used the name of the field as a way to market its products,
which could have been made from oil extracted and processed by others.

A Sunset refinery is not mentioned on a CA Energy Comm site that lists
the history of refineries in the state, although there are several
that are simply noted as "prior to 1981" which I will need to research
for my own interests. Here is a link to that site for those
interested in another source for what company was refining where in CA
and when...http://www.energy.ca.gov/oil/refinery_history.html

Sorry nothing definitive for your tank car.

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA




--- In STMFC@..., Dan Gledhill <gledhilldan@...> wrote:

Hello John,
Thanks for the link to the images for Sunset Oil
Company.I think we may be on to something here.The printing shown at
the top of the oil can images is almost identical to that which
remains on the rivetted tank car in question.Could be coincidental but
it is a somewhat unique early style of print.
Briefly I will say that the car is a10,000 gallon car built by
Standard Car in I believe 1926.I described this car in more detail
earlier in the year on this site,so we know what it was ,just not how
it was painted.It would be truly great to find a photo of some of this
fleet but it was likely one of very few painted the same.
The car was numbered CDLX 1051 ,and we know that it received
some servicing in the Portland area as the frame was stencilled
REPKD.A.T.6-6-37 U.P.R.R.
Sunset oil Co.I am led to believe may have marketed their
products in the Portland area ,but why the car would come north on the
UP instead of the SP is unknown.
Any idea where Sunset Oil did their refining or where they
would have got their crude oil?
Regards,Dan Gledhill
John Hile <john66h@...> wrote:
--- In STMFC@..., "John Hile" <john66h@> wrote:

Petroleum product suppliers with names that start with "Sun" listed
for California locations in my 1927 Freight Shippers Guide to the
Santa Fe:

San Francisco: Sunset Monarch Oil Co.; Sunset Oil Co.
Los Angeles: Sun Oil Co. of Philadelphia
Dan,

Checked one of my online resources, and found an image of a Los
Angeles City map from Sunset Oil Company, Los Angeles, California.
The site says it is from 1946, and that Sunset was purchased by
Wilshire approx. 1957.

Here is the address of the image: http://www.gassigns.org/sunset.htm

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA






---------------------------------
Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to
Yahoo! Answers.