TOFC


joel norman <mec-bml@...>
 

GENTLEMAN: For our modeling time frame(my own railroad is set in Maine
1960))which of the ready to run(bad hands and weak eyes)in HO would be
the best 50 ft(or 60ft)flat car for TOFC use...
Thanks
Joel Norman... Eastern Maine Rly


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Joel Norman wrote:
"GENTLEMAN: For our modeling time frame (my own railroad is set in
Maine 1960) which of the ready to run (bad hands and weak eyes)in HO
would be the best 50 ft (or 60 ft) flat car for TOFC use..."

Based on your constraints (RTR, 50 or 60 ft car), NONE.

Athearn did offer a RTR release of their 85 ft Trailer Train TOFC flat
in late 2006 (ATH 7422x series) in the early Trailer Train paint
scheme which fits your 1960 era. Modeling other TOFC prototypes for
that era will require building and modifying kits.


Ben Hom


Peter Ness
 

Hi;

This is my first post to this group, so I hope I abide by the
netiquette rules...

First, hosam never did recieve much of an actual reply to his
original
question....

hosam,

Your question probably received mixed responses in part because your
subject was "TOFC", which actually drew me to read the entire
thread. TOFC by definition is "Trailer on Flat Car", so your subject
combined with your question about trucks on flat cars is a bit
misleading. having said that...

Very briefly, C&NW is generally attributed with the first regularly
scheduled TOFC service ca. 1932. The New Haven began regular TOFC
service between Boston and NYC (Harlem River Yard) ca. 1937. Both
railroads used flat cars specically modified to carry trailers ( a
variety of jack stands, chocks and tie-down chains) in transit
between loading docks built specifically for the "circus-style"
loading and unloading trailers. Other railroads may have used
limited service this early but these two had trains in regularly
scheduled year-round service, hence are attributed as "early
intermodal" operations.

Jumping to hosam's original question about "trucks", which I am
interpreting to mean tractors - the motorized vehicle that hauls a
trailer - in addition to circus trains (which were special
movements), during the period surrounding WWII, military vehicles,
including trucks, were transported around the country on a regular
basis. Usually, the vehicles were loaded and secured to standard
flats, not flats specifically designed for TOFC use, the movements
fit the description of "trucks" moved on flatcars. In the post-WWII
era, in preparation for Civil Defense in the infancy of the Nuclear
Age, there were also special movements of trucks - fire fighting
apparatus in particular - that were loaded on general service flats
for movements during drills. In one case, the New Haven ran such a
train in CT, with the submarine base in Groton being the
reported "disaster site". Other than those times, in the contiguous
US, loading of tractor and trailer together on a flat would not fit
the regularly accepted definition of a TOFC operation, although I am
sure there is much photographic evidence to show the movement of
tractor-trailers on flat cars for specific reasons. In fact, some
very
early (pre-TOFC?) movements did include tractors with trailers when
trailer length rarely exceeded 24'.

Back to TOFC history; in the 1950's Piggy Back Inc. began operations,
the Pennsy began TrucTrain operations, and later the Trailer Train
consortium began operations. The ACF standard hitches were developed
and led to standization in TOFC operations to support rail car
interchange among railroads. That, in general takes us to the end of
the time period of interest to this group.

Joel, I am sorry I cannot provide specific information to answer your
question. To the best of my knowledge, B&M was possibly the only
railroad to provide TOFC operations to Maine. I do know the B&M had
trailers. It is possible there was interchange of TOFC cars from New
Haven to B&M via trains M-6 and M-7 (Maine Bullet) in Worcester, MA.
Also possible for such interchange at Worcester with Train N-1. I
have no knowldege of possible TOFC operations on MEC or BAR. You
might check the B&M Railroad Historical Society web site for possible
information regarding TOFC movements in ME.

The best stab I can take at an answer to RTR TOFC would be some of
the older (OOP?) Walthers TOFC cars. By the early-mid '60's, the 85'
and longer TOFC cars were making inroads in New England, and were
already in much more prevalent use in the rest of the contiguous US.

Regards,
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/



--- In STMFC@..., "joel norman" <mec-bml@...> wrote:

GENTLEMAN: For our modeling time frame(my own railroad is set in
Maine
1960))which of the ready to run(bad hands and weak eyes)in HO would
be
the best 50 ft(or 60ft)flat car for TOFC use...
Thanks
Joel Norman... Eastern Maine Rly


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Peter Ness wrote:
"The best stab I can take at an answer to RTR TOFC would be some of
the older (OOP?) Walthers TOFC cars."

Excellent choice; unfortunately, these have not been offered in RTR to
date, which doesn't answer Joel's question.


Ben Hom


James Fellows
 

While perhaps just outside the 1960 cut of this list Athearn is currently selling 50' flats with 40' trailers. Con Cor in the past has also sold RTR 50' cars with trailers.

Jim Fellows

----- Original Message -----
From: benjaminfrank_hom
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 12:06 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: TOFC


Peter Ness wrote:
"The best stab I can take at an answer to RTR TOFC would be some of
the older (OOP?) Walthers TOFC cars."

Excellent choice; unfortunately, these have not been offered in RTR to
date, which doesn't answer Joel's question.

Ben Hom


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

James Fellows wrote:
While perhaps just outside the 1960 cut of this list Athearn is currently selling 50' flats with 40' trailers. Con Cor in the past has also sold RTR 50' cars with trailers.
These are okay if you don't mind that the Athearn flat has no protoype.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


cabincar2834 <cwilson@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "joel norman" <mec-bml@...> wrote:

GENTLEMAN: For our modeling time frame(my own railroad is set in Maine
1960))which of the ready to run(bad hands and weak eyes)in HO would be
the best 50 ft(or 60ft)flat car for TOFC use...
Thanks
Joel Norman... Eastern Maine Rly
A couple of references to check out:
Morning Sun, Northern New England Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment
1) pages 22 and 25. Photos of BAR refrigerated trailers, one on a rebuilt BAR flatcar.
2) page 34. BM 5205. A 50-foot TOFC flatcar
3) page 37. B&M TOFC trailer
4) page 53. MEC TOFC trailer
Morning Sun, BAR in Color. page 103. A pair of BAR TOFC trailers on a TTX flatcar.
(Athearn offers these in this BAR scheme)

There are other references too if you do some searching for BAR photos. I found one of
the later BAR trailers on a 50-foot (ex-PRR) Trailer Train flatcar.

I have done models of a few of this for a friend who models Maine/New Hampshire in the
late 1950's/early 1960's. The 50-foot TTX cars can be done from the Bowser F30 kit.
This is a great option for someone modeling this era and doesn't want to run the long TTX
cars on tighter curves. The B&M TOFC flatcar was quite easy to do (you could just reletter
one of the old Revell/Con-Cor TOFC flatcars). The BAR TOFC flatcar was extensively
kitbashed from a Life-Like 53-foot gon (a very involved project). Athearn offers the BAR
trailer and I have built one of the BAR refrigerated trailers and one MEC trailer as well.

Microscale makes a decal set for the TTX flatcars which includes data for the F30 50-foot
cars. I used CDS N-scale sets to get the small heralds needed for the BAR and B&M
flatcars. Also, Don Haffield makes decals for a lot of TOFC trailers. Try searching for his
name or check out the greatdecals website. Someone on this list may have a direct url for
him. Feel free to chime in with other suggestions.

Craig Wilson
who can't resist a modeling project challenge


Tim O'Connor
 

Although not 100% accurate, Missouri Pacific had some 50 foot flat
cars (not 53'6") with 13 stake pockets, some of which were converted
for TOFC service and lasted into the 1970's. If you remove the
side-mount brake stand from the Athearn model it can serve as a
reasonable stand-in.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/16/2007 03:23 PM Sunday, you wrote:
James Fellows wrote:
While perhaps just outside the 1960 cut of this list Athearn is
currently selling 50' flats with 40' trailers. Con Cor in the past
has also sold RTR 50' cars with trailers.
These are okay if you don't mind that the Athearn flat has no
protoype.

Tony Thompson


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Craig Wilson wrote:
"There are other references too if you do some searching for BAR
photos. I found one of the later BAR trailers on a 50-foot (ex-PRR)
Trailer Train flatcar.

I have done models of a few of this for a friend who models
Maine/New Hampshire in the late 1950's/early 1960's. The 50-foot
TTX cars can be done from the Bowser F30 kit."

A note on terminology - sometimes, PRR subclasses can be markedly
different cars from the parent class. In this case, the F30 was a
significantly different car from the F30A modeled by the Bowser kit:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PRR_470132_F30_E8814.jpg&fr=clF30
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PRR_474265_F30A_MLC1939.jpg&fr=clF30

If you're talking about the TOFC coversions, that would be Classes
F30D for the early conversions done by PRR, and F30G for the ones
done by TTX.
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PR475462.JPG&fr=clF30

This is true for several other classes that modelers abbreviate -
R50 (R50B), B60 (B60B). Am I being anal? Maybe, but it's worth the
effort to call things by their right name, especially as there's
always someone, especially newbies, who will take you literally.

These are great projects, Craig - they reinforce my point that you
have to do some work for accurate early TOFC cars. Unfortunately,
none of these fall into Joel's "ready to run (bad hands and weak
eyes)in HO" criteria.


Ben Hom


Tim O'Connor
 

Red Caboose at one time planned to do a TOFC version of the
SP F-70-7 flat car, but I don't know what has become of that idea.

Athearn's most recent single-trailer TOFC cars actually use models
of real hitches, unlike the old two-trailer versions. So a very basic
conversion (without rub rails, etc) of an HO 50' to 53' flat car can be
done with a minimal amount of work, if you're not too concerned
about (or able to implement) exact prototypical details. The 40' trailers
are so well done that it's almost worthwhile to buy the RTR stuff
and toss the flat car, and make a more accurate TOFC conversion
using either the Walthers GSC flat (e.g. GN) or the P2K AAR flat
(e.g. NP, C&NW).

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
Craig Wilson wrote:
"There are other references too if you do some searching for BAR
photos. I found one of the later BAR trailers on a 50-foot (ex-PRR)
Trailer Train flatcar.

I have done models of a few of this for a friend who models
Maine/New Hampshire in the late 1950's/early 1960's. The 50-foot
TTX cars can be done from the Bowser F30 kit."

A note on terminology - sometimes, PRR subclasses can be markedly
different cars from the parent class. In this case, the F30 was a
significantly different car from the F30A modeled by the Bowser kit:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PRR_470132_F30_E8814.jpg&fr=clF30
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PRR_474265_F30A_MLC1939.jpg&fr=clF30

If you're talking about the TOFC coversions, that would be Classes
F30D for the early conversions done by PRR, and F30G for the ones
done by TTX.
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PR475462.JPG&fr=clF30

This is true for several other classes that modelers abbreviate -
R50 (R50B), B60 (B60B). Am I being anal? Maybe, but it's worth the
effort to call things by their right name, especially as there's
always someone, especially newbies, who will take you literally.

These are great projects, Craig - they reinforce my point that you
have to do some work for accurate early TOFC cars. Unfortunately,
none of these fall into Joel's "ready to run (bad hands and weak
eyes)in HO" criteria.


Ben Hom


jim_mischke <jmischke@...>
 

Prototype:

By this late (1960), the norm was 35' trailers, moving to 40'
trailers. The older 40' flat cars with custom tie downs were
disappearing, and the 75' flat cars, then 86' flat cars with standard
hitch were just coming out.



Models:

The Athearn 50' flat car is a toy. Its small trailers are a foot too
narrow, and too short to warrant two axles.

A far better flat car is the Life-like P2K AAR. It does not come
with tie downs or trailers, in either kit or RTR.

The Athearn 86' flat with trailers better represents a 1962-1964 era
than a 1960. It also might challenge your layout curvature.







--- In STMFC@..., "joel norman" <mec-bml@...> wrote:

GENTLEMAN: For our modeling time frame(my own railroad is set in
Maine
1960))which of the ready to run(bad hands and weak eyes)in HO would
be
the best 50 ft(or 60ft)flat car for TOFC use...
Thanks
Joel Norman... Eastern Maine Rly


SUVCWORR@...
 

The last time I asked RC about this (6-8 weeks ago) it was on hold because of a lack of orders,



Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: timboconnor@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:50 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: TOFC




Red Caboose at one time planned to do a TOFC version of the
SP F-70-7 flat car, but I don't know what has become of that idea.

Athearn's most recent single-trailer TOFC cars actually use models
of real hitches, unlike the old two-trailer versions. So a very basic
conversion (without rub rails, etc) of an HO 50' to 53' flat car can be
done with a minimal amount of work, if you're not too concerned
about (or able to implement) exact prototypical details. The 40' trailers
are so well done that it's almost worthwhile to buy the RTR stuff
and toss the flat car, and make a more accurate TOFC conversion
using either the Walthers GSC flat (e.g. GN) or the P2K AAR flat
(e.g. NP, C&NW).

Tim O'Connor



-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
Craig Wilson wrote:
"There are other references too if you do some searching for BAR
photos. I found one of the later BAR trailers on a 50-foot (ex-PRR)
Trailer Train flatcar.

I have done models of a few of this for a friend who models
Maine/New Hampshire in the late 1950's/early 1960's. The 50-foot
TTX cars can be done from the Bowser F30 kit."

A note on terminology - sometimes, PRR subclasses can be markedly
different cars from the parent class. In this case, the F30 was a
significantly different car from the F30A modeled by the Bowser kit:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PRR_470132_F30_E8814.jpg&fr=clF30
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PRR_474265_F30A_MLC1939.jpg&fr=clF30

If you're talking about the TOFC coversions, that would be Classes
F30D for the early conversions done by PRR, and F30G for the ones
done by TTX.
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PR475462.JPG&fr=clF30

This is true for several other classes that modelers abbreviate -
R50 (R50B), B60 (B60B). Am I being anal? Maybe, but it's worth the
effort to call things by their right name, especially as there's
always someone, especially newbies, who will take you literally.

These are great projects, Craig - they reinforce my point that you
have to do some work for accurate early TOFC cars. Unfortunately,
none of these fall into Joel's "ready to run (bad hands and weak
eyes)in HO" criteria.


Ben Hom


Yahoo! Groups Links





________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


Jeffrey White
 

Walthers Gold Line is releasing a flexi-van car that they say first ran in 1957. Walthers Part # 932-23923, p. 144 Walthers 2008 HO Scale Reference get's a two pack of them with trailers. The website doesn't say if they are 36 ft or 40 ft trailers.

Due in 29 Jan 08 .

Jeff White

SUVCWORR@... wrote:



The last time I asked RC about this (6-8 weeks ago) it was on hold because of a lack of orders,

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: timboconnor@... <mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net>
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:50 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: TOFC

Red Caboose at one time planned to do a TOFC version of the
SP F-70-7 flat car, but I don't know what has become of that idea.

Athearn's most recent single-trailer TOFC cars actually use models
of real hitches, unlike the old two-trailer versions. So a very basic
conversion (without rub rails, etc) of an HO 50' to 53' flat car can be
done with a minimal amount of work, if you're not too concerned
about (or able to implement) exact prototypical details. The 40' trailers
are so well done that it's almost worthwhile to buy the RTR stuff
and toss the flat car, and make a more accurate TOFC conversion
using either the Walthers GSC flat (e.g. GN) or the P2K AAR flat
(e.g. NP, C&NW).

Tim O'Connor


-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@... <mailto:b.hom%40worldnet.att.net>>
Craig Wilson wrote:
"There are other references too if you do some searching for BAR
photos. I found one of the later BAR trailers on a 50-foot (ex-PRR)
Trailer Train flatcar.

I have done models of a few of this for a friend who models
Maine/New Hampshire in the late 1950's/early 1960's. The 50-foot
TTX cars can be done from the Bowser F30 kit."

A note on terminology - sometimes, PRR subclasses can be markedly
different cars from the parent class. In this case, the F30 was a
significantly different car from the F30A modeled by the Bowser kit:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?>
photo=PRR_470132_F30_E8814.jpg&fr=clF30
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?>
photo=PRR_474265_F30A_MLC1939.jpg&fr=clF30

If you're talking about the TOFC coversions, that would be Classes
F30D for the early conversions done by PRR, and F30G for the ones
done by TTX.
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?>
photo=PR475462.JPG&fr=clF30

This is true for several other classes that modelers abbreviate -
R50 (R50B), B60 (B60B). Am I being anal? Maybe, but it's worth the
effort to call things by their right name, especially as there's
always someone, especially newbies, who will take you literally.

These are great projects, Craig - they reinforce my point that you
have to do some work for accurate early TOFC cars. Unfortunately,
none of these fall into Joel's "ready to run (bad hands and weak
eyes)in HO" criteria.


Ben Hom
Yahoo! Groups Links

__________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com <http://webmail.aol.com>



James Fellows
 

Jim,

The Athearn TOFC cars I was refering to are Athearns newer release with a single 40' trailer on a 50' car. While the cars is their old 50' standby, it does have the correct ACF hitch and other details. They are also using the new 40' trailers on them. They fit the need for RTR.

Jim Fellows

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "jim_mischke" <jmischke@...>


Prototype:

By this late (1960), the norm was 35' trailers, moving to 40'
trailers. The older 40' flat cars with custom tie downs were
disappearing, and the 75' flat cars, then 86' flat cars with standard
hitch were just coming out.

Models:

The Athearn 50' flat car is a toy. Its small trailers are a foot too
narrow, and too short to warrant two axles.

A far better flat car is the Life-like P2K AAR. It does not come
with tie downs or trailers, in either kit or RTR.

The Athearn 86' flat with trailers better represents a 1962-1964 era
than a 1960. It also might challenge your layout curvature.

--- In STMFC@..., "joel norman" <mec-bml@...> wrote:

GENTLEMAN: For our modeling time frame(my own railroad is set in
Maine
1960))which of the ready to run(bad hands and weak eyes)in HO would
be
the best 50 ft(or 60ft)flat car for TOFC use...
Thanks
Joel Norman... Eastern Maine Rly


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jim Fellows wrote:
"The Athearn TOFC cars I was refering to are Athearns newer release
with a single 40' trailer on a 50' car. While the cars is their old
50' standby, it does have the correct ACF hitch and other details.
They are also using the new 40' trailers on them. They fit the need
for RTR."

They may fit the bill for RTR, but not accuracy. Putting lipstick on
a pig doesn't make it any less of a source of ham.


Ben Hom


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jim Mischke wrote:
"The Athearn 86' flat with trailers better represents a 1962-1964
era than a 1960."

It's true that these cars were more widely used by 1962-1964, but this
prototype first appeared in 1959.


Ben Hom


Tim O'Connor
 

Jim

Careful there. Athearn makes two long flat cars. One is an excellent
and correctly sized 85' F85F made from 1960 to 1964. It can also be
used to stand in for an earlier slightly fishbelly version built in 1959.
Athearn produced nicely/correctly decorated flat cars w/ trailer sets
using this flat car about a year or two ago -- in leased, TTX, Rock
Island, Soo, and I think one or two other schemes, representing the
1959 to early 1960's cars. These models meet the "RTR" need but
the timeframe is too late for most people on STMFC.

The other Athearn long flat (aka the "All Purpose" flat) is a shortened
model of an 89' COFC/TOFC flush deck flat car and the prototype for
that car was built in the 1970's or later.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "jim_mischke" <jmischke@...>

The Athearn 86' flat with trailers better represents a 1962-1964 era
than a 1960. It also might challenge your layout curvature.


Tim O'Connor
 

That's right, but the trailer they used is a late 1960's Fruehauf (a really
nice model actually) and the trailer paint schemes are from the early 60's
or later. I almost bought the MP model but the trailer was simply not an
accurate representation of that prototype so I passed.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: jamesfellows@...
Jim,

The Athearn TOFC cars I was refering to are Athearns newer release with a single
40' trailer on a 50' car. While the cars is their old 50' standby, it does have
the correct ACF hitch and other details. They are also using the new 40'
trailers on them. They fit the need for RTR.

Jim Fellows


Tim O'Connor
 

Hmmm. It's hard to order stuff when there is no public announcement
of a model number.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: SUVCWORR@...

The last time I asked RC about this (6-8 weeks ago) it was on hold because of a
lack of orders,



Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: timboconnor@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:50 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: TOFC




Red Caboose at one time planned to do a TOFC version of the
SP F-70-7 flat car, but I don't know what has become of that idea.


Tim O'Connor
 

Exactly! It would have no effect on sales of bacon, either.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>

Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't make it any less of a source of ham.