Date
1 - 20 of 29
TOFC
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James Fellows
I read a bit about MEC TOFC operations. They began in 1958 with two trailers hauling groceries for IGA between Portland and Bangor. In 1964 the MEC handled 770 trailers. So for a 1960 you need very few trailers and flats.
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Jim Fellows
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor To: STMFC@... Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:21 AM Subject: [STMFC] Re: TOFC This particular x-post Z-van design was made from 1968 through 1976. The old Athearn Fruehauf trailer is based on a reefer trailer built for PFE in the early 1960's. In any case the trailer paint schemes (like this one) are anachronistic as applied to these RTR flats w/ trailers. http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH72461 This is the Mopac scheme I like, which dates from the late 1950's and was applied to earlier x-post trailers. http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH72457 Tim O'Connor >Tim O'Connor wrote: > >"That's right, but the trailer they used is a late 1960's Fruehauf (a really >nice model actually) and the trailer paint schemes are from the early 60's >or later. I almost bought the MP model but the trailer was simply not an >accurate representation of that prototype so I passed." > >Tim; >I believe the Athearn is to represent the Fruehauf "Z-van" which appeared mid-'60's, but you're right on target anyway - a great trailer model in the incorrect (earlier) paint or lettering scheme... > >Regards. >Peter
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This particular x-post Z-van design was made from 1968
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through 1976. The old Athearn Fruehauf trailer is based on a reefer trailer built for PFE in the early 1960's. In any case the trailer paint schemes (like this one) are anachronistic as applied to these RTR flats w/ trailers. http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH72461 This is the Mopac scheme I like, which dates from the late 1950's and was applied to earlier x-post trailers. http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH72457 Tim O'Connor
Tim O'Connor wrote:
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Peter Ness wrote:And I think tariffs and routes were highly restricted. JointIt is very likely that in the early days of TOFC interchange, thereThis is very true, and not accidental--not every road WANTED tariffs would be required for interchange yes? Even today thousands of containers & trailers are 'interchanged' daily by being driven from one railroad terminal to another in Chicago and other places. Tim O'Connor
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Peter
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These are the "sales figures" for the early flats that most closely match the Athearn F85B (not F85F as I wrote before -- F is the designation for Bethlehem built cars, while the F85B's were Pullman cars) Early cars -- had a slight fishbelly side sill and so are slightly different than the Athearn model) 1959: C&O 100 D&RGW 24 FEC 20 NATX 12 (North American Car) TTX 500 (STTX reporting marks) UP 100 WM 10 WP 25 Athearn F85B: 1960: NATX 7 (North American Car) SOO 15 TTX 1397 1961: NATX 322 (North American Car) TLCX 11 (PS Transport Leasing) TTX 536 1962: RI 50 TTX 598 1963: ACL 4 D&RGW 25 RI 50 SOO 10 TTX 325 1964: TTX 15 close-to-correct RTR models: (hitches may need replacement, and there is no exact model for 1959 schemes) http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92618 http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92616 http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92607 http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92621 http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92624 http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92614 http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92606 http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92603 http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92602 Tim O'Connor
Ben Hom wrote;
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Peter Ness wrote:
It is very likely that in the early days of TOFC interchange, there were restrictions on TOFC car types that were acceptable for such service. The Clejans were a good example of this since they saw limited if any interchange service.This is very true, and not accidental--not every road WANTED interchange service. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Peter Ness
Tim O'Connor wrote:
"That's right, but the trailer they used is a late 1960's Fruehauf (a really nice model actually) and the trailer paint schemes are from the early 60's or later. I almost bought the MP model but the trailer was simply not an accurate representation of that prototype so I passed." Tim; I believe the Athearn is to represent the Fruehauf "Z-van" which appeared mid-'60's, but you're right on target anyway - a great trailer model in the incorrect (earlier) paint or lettering scheme... Regards. Peter http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/
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Peter Ness
Re: Athearn 86' flat with trailers
Ben Hom wrote; "It's true that these cars were more widely used by 1962-1964, but this prototype first appeared in 1959." Ben; Perhaps my opinion only, but am not sure there need be an association with when the car first appeared. While I am not familiar with TOFC operations in Maine in 1960, I can state the New Haven was running 40' TOFC's into the late 50's when they procured the Clejan flats which had capacity for two 35' trailers. Other than the peculiar anchor mechanism for the trailers, the overall car design wasn't bad, but in the late '50's the "standard" ACF Type I hitch made it's appearance and with the TrailerTrain consortium on the scene efforts in standardization for TOFC interchange were afoot. While TOFC's of 75' and longer were in service before 1960, no all railroads had load/unload facilities to accommodate the various lengths and designs simultaneously. It is very likely that in the early days of TOFC interchange, there were restrictions on TOFC car types that were acceptable for such service. The Clejans were a good example of this since they saw limited if any interchange service. The New Haven procured their first 85' TOFC's about 1964 and I am almost certain that in other regions of the country they were in widespread service by that time. Regards, Peter http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/
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Jeffrey White
Peter,
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Thanks for the info. If that's the case I will pass too as I'm modeling the IC between 1956 and 1960. Jeff Peter Ness wrote:
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Peter Ness
Jeff White wrote;
"Walthers Gold Line is releasing a flexi-van car that they say first ran in 1957. Walthers Part # 932-23923, p. 144 Walthers 2008 HO Scale Reference get's a two pack of them with trailers. The website doesn't say if they are 36 ft or 40 ft trailers." Jeff, to the best of my knowledge the Walthers Flexi-Van car is a Type II or III and was released after 1960. You are correct about the first Flexi-Vans being pre-1960. Because I model 1959, I did not pay tremendous attention to the release of these cars after learning they post-date my period of interest. Regards, Peter http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/
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Exactly! It would have no effect on sales of bacon, either.
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Tim O'Connor
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't make it any less of a source of ham.
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Hmmm. It's hard to order stuff when there is no public announcement
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of a model number.
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From: SUVCWORR@...
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That's right, but the trailer they used is a late 1960's Fruehauf (a really
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nice model actually) and the trailer paint schemes are from the early 60's or later. I almost bought the MP model but the trailer was simply not an accurate representation of that prototype so I passed. Tim O'Connor
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From: jamesfellows@... Jim,
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Jim
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Careful there. Athearn makes two long flat cars. One is an excellent and correctly sized 85' F85F made from 1960 to 1964. It can also be used to stand in for an earlier slightly fishbelly version built in 1959. Athearn produced nicely/correctly decorated flat cars w/ trailer sets using this flat car about a year or two ago -- in leased, TTX, Rock Island, Soo, and I think one or two other schemes, representing the 1959 to early 1960's cars. These models meet the "RTR" need but the timeframe is too late for most people on STMFC. The other Athearn long flat (aka the "All Purpose" flat) is a shortened model of an 89' COFC/TOFC flush deck flat car and the prototype for that car was built in the 1970's or later. Tim O'Connor
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From: "jim_mischke" <jmischke@...> The Athearn 86' flat with trailers better represents a 1962-1964 era
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benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
Jim Mischke wrote:
"The Athearn 86' flat with trailers better represents a 1962-1964 era than a 1960." It's true that these cars were more widely used by 1962-1964, but this prototype first appeared in 1959. Ben Hom
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benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
Jim Fellows wrote:
"The Athearn TOFC cars I was refering to are Athearns newer release with a single 40' trailer on a 50' car. While the cars is their old 50' standby, it does have the correct ACF hitch and other details. They are also using the new 40' trailers on them. They fit the need for RTR." They may fit the bill for RTR, but not accuracy. Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't make it any less of a source of ham. Ben Hom
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James Fellows
Jim,
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The Athearn TOFC cars I was refering to are Athearns newer release with a single 40' trailer on a 50' car. While the cars is their old 50' standby, it does have the correct ACF hitch and other details. They are also using the new 40' trailers on them. They fit the need for RTR. Jim Fellows
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From: "jim_mischke" <jmischke@...> Prototype: By this late (1960), the norm was 35' trailers, moving to 40' trailers. The older 40' flat cars with custom tie downs were disappearing, and the 75' flat cars, then 86' flat cars with standard hitch were just coming out. Models: The Athearn 50' flat car is a toy. Its small trailers are a foot too narrow, and too short to warrant two axles. A far better flat car is the Life-like P2K AAR. It does not come with tie downs or trailers, in either kit or RTR. The Athearn 86' flat with trailers better represents a 1962-1964 era than a 1960. It also might challenge your layout curvature. --- In STMFC@..., "joel norman" <mec-bml@...> wrote: Maine 1960))which of the ready to run(bad hands and weak eyes)in HO wouldbe the best 50 ft(or 60ft)flat car for TOFC use...
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Jeffrey White
Walthers Gold Line is releasing a flexi-van car that they say first ran in 1957. Walthers Part # 932-23923, p. 144 Walthers 2008 HO Scale Reference get's a two pack of them with trailers. The website doesn't say if they are 36 ft or 40 ft trailers.
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Due in 29 Jan 08 . Jeff White SUVCWORR@... wrote:
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SUVCWORR@...
The last time I asked RC about this (6-8 weeks ago) it was on hold because of a lack of orders,
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Rich Orr
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From: timboconnor@... To: STMFC@... Sent: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:50 am Subject: [STMFC] Re: TOFC Red Caboose at one time planned to do a TOFC version of the SP F-70-7 flat car, but I don't know what has become of that idea. Athearn's most recent single-trailer TOFC cars actually use models of real hitches, unlike the old two-trailer versions. So a very basic conversion (without rub rails, etc) of an HO 50' to 53' flat car can be done with a minimal amount of work, if you're not too concerned about (or able to implement) exact prototypical details. The 40' trailers are so well done that it's almost worthwhile to buy the RTR stuff and toss the flat car, and make a more accurate TOFC conversion using either the Walthers GSC flat (e.g. GN) or the P2K AAR flat (e.g. NP, C&NW). Tim O'Connor -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> Craig Wilson wrote: Yahoo! Groups Links ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com
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jim_mischke <jmischke@...>
Prototype:
By this late (1960), the norm was 35' trailers, moving to 40' trailers. The older 40' flat cars with custom tie downs were disappearing, and the 75' flat cars, then 86' flat cars with standard hitch were just coming out. Models: The Athearn 50' flat car is a toy. Its small trailers are a foot too narrow, and too short to warrant two axles. A far better flat car is the Life-like P2K AAR. It does not come with tie downs or trailers, in either kit or RTR. The Athearn 86' flat with trailers better represents a 1962-1964 era than a 1960. It also might challenge your layout curvature. --- In STMFC@..., "joel norman" <mec-bml@...> wrote: Maine 1960))which of the ready to run(bad hands and weak eyes)in HO wouldbe the best 50 ft(or 60ft)flat car for TOFC use...
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Red Caboose at one time planned to do a TOFC version of the
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SP F-70-7 flat car, but I don't know what has become of that idea. Athearn's most recent single-trailer TOFC cars actually use models of real hitches, unlike the old two-trailer versions. So a very basic conversion (without rub rails, etc) of an HO 50' to 53' flat car can be done with a minimal amount of work, if you're not too concerned about (or able to implement) exact prototypical details. The 40' trailers are so well done that it's almost worthwhile to buy the RTR stuff and toss the flat car, and make a more accurate TOFC conversion using either the Walthers GSC flat (e.g. GN) or the P2K AAR flat (e.g. NP, C&NW). Tim O'Connor
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From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> Craig Wilson wrote:
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