TOFC


James Fellows
 

I read a bit about MEC TOFC operations. They began in 1958 with two trailers hauling groceries for IGA between Portland and Bangor. In 1964 the MEC handled 770 trailers. So for a 1960 you need very few trailers and flats.

Jim Fellows

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:21 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: TOFC


This particular x-post Z-van design was made from 1968
through 1976. The old Athearn Fruehauf trailer is based
on a reefer trailer built for PFE in the early 1960's.
In any case the trailer paint schemes (like this one)
are anachronistic as applied to these RTR flats w/ trailers.

http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH72461

This is the Mopac scheme I like, which dates from the late
1950's and was applied to earlier x-post trailers.
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH72457

Tim O'Connor

>Tim O'Connor wrote:
>
>"That's right, but the trailer they used is a late 1960's Fruehauf (a really
>nice model actually) and the trailer paint schemes are from the early 60's
>or later. I almost bought the MP model but the trailer was simply not an
>accurate representation of that prototype so I passed."
>
>Tim;
>I believe the Athearn is to represent the Fruehauf "Z-van" which appeared mid-'60's, but you're right on target anyway - a great trailer model in the incorrect (earlier) paint or lettering scheme...
>
>Regards.
>Peter


Tim O'Connor
 

This particular x-post Z-van design was made from 1968
through 1976. The old Athearn Fruehauf trailer is based
on a reefer trailer built for PFE in the early 1960's.
In any case the trailer paint schemes (like this one)
are anachronistic as applied to these RTR flats w/ trailers.

http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH72461

This is the Mopac scheme I like, which dates from the late
1950's and was applied to earlier x-post trailers.
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH72457

Tim O'Connor

Tim O'Connor wrote:

"That's right, but the trailer they used is a late 1960's Fruehauf (a really
nice model actually) and the trailer paint schemes are from the early 60's
or later. I almost bought the MP model but the trailer was simply not an
accurate representation of that prototype so I passed."

Tim;
I believe the Athearn is to represent the Fruehauf "Z-van" which appeared mid-'60's, but you're right on target anyway - a great trailer model in the incorrect (earlier) paint or lettering scheme...

Regards.
Peter


Tim O'Connor
 

Peter Ness wrote:
It is very likely that in the early days of TOFC interchange, there
were restrictions on TOFC car types that were acceptable for such
service. The Clejans were a good example of this since they saw
limited if any interchange service.
This is very true, and not accidental--not every road WANTED
interchange service.
Tony Thompson
And I think tariffs and routes were highly restricted. Joint
tariffs would be required for interchange yes? Even today thousands
of containers & trailers are 'interchanged' daily by being driven
from one railroad terminal to another in Chicago and other places.

Tim O'Connor


Tim O'Connor
 

Peter

These are the "sales figures" for the early flats that
most closely match the Athearn F85B (not F85F as I wrote
before -- F is the designation for Bethlehem built cars,
while the F85B's were Pullman cars)

Early cars -- had a slight fishbelly side sill and
so are slightly different than the Athearn model)

1959: C&O 100
D&RGW 24
FEC 20
NATX 12 (North American Car)
TTX 500 (STTX reporting marks)
UP 100
WM 10
WP 25

Athearn F85B:

1960: NATX 7 (North American Car)
SOO 15
TTX 1397
1961: NATX 322 (North American Car)
TLCX 11 (PS Transport Leasing)
TTX 536
1962: RI 50
TTX 598
1963: ACL 4
D&RGW 25
RI 50
SOO 10
TTX 325
1964: TTX 15

close-to-correct RTR models: (hitches may need replacement,
and there is no exact model for 1959 schemes)
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92618
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92616
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92607
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92621
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92624
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92614
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92606
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92603
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH92602

Tim O'Connor

Ben Hom wrote;

"It's true that these cars were more widely used by 1962-1964, but this
prototype first appeared in 1959."

Ben;
Perhaps my opinion only, but am not sure there need be an association with when the car first appeared. While I am not familiar with TOFC operations in Maine in 1960, I can state the New Haven was running 40' TOFC's into the late 50's when they procured the Clejan flats which had capacity for two 35' trailers. Other than the peculiar anchor mechanism for the trailers, the overall car design wasn't bad, but in the late '50's the "standard" ACF Type I hitch made it's appearance and with the TrailerTrain consortium on the scene efforts in standardization for TOFC interchange were afoot. While TOFC's of 75' and longer were in service before 1960, no all railroads had load/unload facilities to accommodate the various lengths and designs simultaneously. It is very likely that in the early days of TOFC interchange, there were restrictions on TOFC car types that were acceptable for such service. The Clejans were a good example of this since they saw limited if any interchange service. The New Haven procured their first 85' TOFC's about 1964 and I am almost certain that in other regions of the country they were in widespread service by that time.

Regards,
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Peter Ness wrote:
It is very likely that in the early days of TOFC interchange, there were restrictions on TOFC car types that were acceptable for such service. The Clejans were a good example of this since they saw limited if any interchange service.
This is very true, and not accidental--not every road WANTED interchange service.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Peter Ness
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

"That's right, but the trailer they used is a late 1960's Fruehauf (a really
nice model actually) and the trailer paint schemes are from the early 60's
or later. I almost bought the MP model but the trailer was simply not an
accurate representation of that prototype so I passed."

Tim;
I believe the Athearn is to represent the Fruehauf "Z-van" which appeared mid-'60's, but you're right on target anyway - a great trailer model in the incorrect (earlier) paint or lettering scheme...

Regards.
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/


Peter Ness
 

Re: Athearn 86' flat with trailers

Ben Hom wrote;

"It's true that these cars were more widely used by 1962-1964, but this
prototype first appeared in 1959."

Ben;
Perhaps my opinion only, but am not sure there need be an association with when the car first appeared. While I am not familiar with TOFC operations in Maine in 1960, I can state the New Haven was running 40' TOFC's into the late 50's when they procured the Clejan flats which had capacity for two 35' trailers. Other than the peculiar anchor mechanism for the trailers, the overall car design wasn't bad, but in the late '50's the "standard" ACF Type I hitch made it's appearance and with the TrailerTrain consortium on the scene efforts in standardization for TOFC interchange were afoot. While TOFC's of 75' and longer were in service before 1960, no all railroads had load/unload facilities to accommodate the various lengths and designs simultaneously. It is very likely that in the early days of TOFC interchange, there were restrictions on TOFC car types that were acceptable for such service. The Clejans were a good example of this since they saw limited if any interchange service. The New Haven procured their first 85' TOFC's about 1964 and I am almost certain that in other regions of the country they were in widespread service by that time.

Regards,
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/


Jeffrey White
 

Peter,
Thanks for the info. If that's the case I will pass too as I'm modeling the IC between 1956 and 1960.
Jeff

Peter Ness wrote:


Jeff, to the best of my knowledge the Walthers Flexi-Van car is a Type II or III and was released after 1960. You are correct about the first Flexi-Vans being pre-1960. Because I model 1959, I did not pay tremendous attention to the release of these cars after learning they post-date my period of interest.

Regards,
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/ <http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/>



Peter Ness
 

Jeff White wrote;

"Walthers Gold Line is releasing a flexi-van car that they say first ran
in 1957. Walthers Part # 932-23923, p. 144 Walthers 2008 HO Scale
Reference get's a two pack of them with trailers. The website doesn't
say if they are 36 ft or 40 ft trailers."

Jeff, to the best of my knowledge the Walthers Flexi-Van car is a Type II or III and was released after 1960. You are correct about the first Flexi-Vans being pre-1960. Because I model 1959, I did not pay tremendous attention to the release of these cars after learning they post-date my period of interest.

Regards,
Peter
http://www.freewebs.com/newhavenrailroad1959/


Tim O'Connor
 

Exactly! It would have no effect on sales of bacon, either.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>

Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't make it any less of a source of ham.


Tim O'Connor
 

Hmmm. It's hard to order stuff when there is no public announcement
of a model number.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: SUVCWORR@...

The last time I asked RC about this (6-8 weeks ago) it was on hold because of a
lack of orders,



Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: timboconnor@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:50 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: TOFC




Red Caboose at one time planned to do a TOFC version of the
SP F-70-7 flat car, but I don't know what has become of that idea.


Tim O'Connor
 

That's right, but the trailer they used is a late 1960's Fruehauf (a really
nice model actually) and the trailer paint schemes are from the early 60's
or later. I almost bought the MP model but the trailer was simply not an
accurate representation of that prototype so I passed.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: jamesfellows@...
Jim,

The Athearn TOFC cars I was refering to are Athearns newer release with a single
40' trailer on a 50' car. While the cars is their old 50' standby, it does have
the correct ACF hitch and other details. They are also using the new 40'
trailers on them. They fit the need for RTR.

Jim Fellows


Tim O'Connor
 

Jim

Careful there. Athearn makes two long flat cars. One is an excellent
and correctly sized 85' F85F made from 1960 to 1964. It can also be
used to stand in for an earlier slightly fishbelly version built in 1959.
Athearn produced nicely/correctly decorated flat cars w/ trailer sets
using this flat car about a year or two ago -- in leased, TTX, Rock
Island, Soo, and I think one or two other schemes, representing the
1959 to early 1960's cars. These models meet the "RTR" need but
the timeframe is too late for most people on STMFC.

The other Athearn long flat (aka the "All Purpose" flat) is a shortened
model of an 89' COFC/TOFC flush deck flat car and the prototype for
that car was built in the 1970's or later.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "jim_mischke" <jmischke@...>

The Athearn 86' flat with trailers better represents a 1962-1964 era
than a 1960. It also might challenge your layout curvature.


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jim Mischke wrote:
"The Athearn 86' flat with trailers better represents a 1962-1964
era than a 1960."

It's true that these cars were more widely used by 1962-1964, but this
prototype first appeared in 1959.


Ben Hom


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jim Fellows wrote:
"The Athearn TOFC cars I was refering to are Athearns newer release
with a single 40' trailer on a 50' car. While the cars is their old
50' standby, it does have the correct ACF hitch and other details.
They are also using the new 40' trailers on them. They fit the need
for RTR."

They may fit the bill for RTR, but not accuracy. Putting lipstick on
a pig doesn't make it any less of a source of ham.


Ben Hom


James Fellows
 

Jim,

The Athearn TOFC cars I was refering to are Athearns newer release with a single 40' trailer on a 50' car. While the cars is their old 50' standby, it does have the correct ACF hitch and other details. They are also using the new 40' trailers on them. They fit the need for RTR.

Jim Fellows

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "jim_mischke" <jmischke@...>


Prototype:

By this late (1960), the norm was 35' trailers, moving to 40'
trailers. The older 40' flat cars with custom tie downs were
disappearing, and the 75' flat cars, then 86' flat cars with standard
hitch were just coming out.

Models:

The Athearn 50' flat car is a toy. Its small trailers are a foot too
narrow, and too short to warrant two axles.

A far better flat car is the Life-like P2K AAR. It does not come
with tie downs or trailers, in either kit or RTR.

The Athearn 86' flat with trailers better represents a 1962-1964 era
than a 1960. It also might challenge your layout curvature.

--- In STMFC@..., "joel norman" <mec-bml@...> wrote:

GENTLEMAN: For our modeling time frame(my own railroad is set in
Maine
1960))which of the ready to run(bad hands and weak eyes)in HO would
be
the best 50 ft(or 60ft)flat car for TOFC use...
Thanks
Joel Norman... Eastern Maine Rly


Jeffrey White
 

Walthers Gold Line is releasing a flexi-van car that they say first ran in 1957. Walthers Part # 932-23923, p. 144 Walthers 2008 HO Scale Reference get's a two pack of them with trailers. The website doesn't say if they are 36 ft or 40 ft trailers.

Due in 29 Jan 08 .

Jeff White

SUVCWORR@... wrote:



The last time I asked RC about this (6-8 weeks ago) it was on hold because of a lack of orders,

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: timboconnor@... <mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net>
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:50 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: TOFC

Red Caboose at one time planned to do a TOFC version of the
SP F-70-7 flat car, but I don't know what has become of that idea.

Athearn's most recent single-trailer TOFC cars actually use models
of real hitches, unlike the old two-trailer versions. So a very basic
conversion (without rub rails, etc) of an HO 50' to 53' flat car can be
done with a minimal amount of work, if you're not too concerned
about (or able to implement) exact prototypical details. The 40' trailers
are so well done that it's almost worthwhile to buy the RTR stuff
and toss the flat car, and make a more accurate TOFC conversion
using either the Walthers GSC flat (e.g. GN) or the P2K AAR flat
(e.g. NP, C&NW).

Tim O'Connor


-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@... <mailto:b.hom%40worldnet.att.net>>
Craig Wilson wrote:
"There are other references too if you do some searching for BAR
photos. I found one of the later BAR trailers on a 50-foot (ex-PRR)
Trailer Train flatcar.

I have done models of a few of this for a friend who models
Maine/New Hampshire in the late 1950's/early 1960's. The 50-foot
TTX cars can be done from the Bowser F30 kit."

A note on terminology - sometimes, PRR subclasses can be markedly
different cars from the parent class. In this case, the F30 was a
significantly different car from the F30A modeled by the Bowser kit:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?>
photo=PRR_470132_F30_E8814.jpg&fr=clF30
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?>
photo=PRR_474265_F30A_MLC1939.jpg&fr=clF30

If you're talking about the TOFC coversions, that would be Classes
F30D for the early conversions done by PRR, and F30G for the ones
done by TTX.
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?>
photo=PR475462.JPG&fr=clF30

This is true for several other classes that modelers abbreviate -
R50 (R50B), B60 (B60B). Am I being anal? Maybe, but it's worth the
effort to call things by their right name, especially as there's
always someone, especially newbies, who will take you literally.

These are great projects, Craig - they reinforce my point that you
have to do some work for accurate early TOFC cars. Unfortunately,
none of these fall into Joel's "ready to run (bad hands and weak
eyes)in HO" criteria.


Ben Hom
Yahoo! Groups Links

__________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com <http://webmail.aol.com>



SUVCWORR@...
 

The last time I asked RC about this (6-8 weeks ago) it was on hold because of a lack of orders,



Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: timboconnor@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:50 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: TOFC




Red Caboose at one time planned to do a TOFC version of the
SP F-70-7 flat car, but I don't know what has become of that idea.

Athearn's most recent single-trailer TOFC cars actually use models
of real hitches, unlike the old two-trailer versions. So a very basic
conversion (without rub rails, etc) of an HO 50' to 53' flat car can be
done with a minimal amount of work, if you're not too concerned
about (or able to implement) exact prototypical details. The 40' trailers
are so well done that it's almost worthwhile to buy the RTR stuff
and toss the flat car, and make a more accurate TOFC conversion
using either the Walthers GSC flat (e.g. GN) or the P2K AAR flat
(e.g. NP, C&NW).

Tim O'Connor



-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
Craig Wilson wrote:
"There are other references too if you do some searching for BAR
photos. I found one of the later BAR trailers on a 50-foot (ex-PRR)
Trailer Train flatcar.

I have done models of a few of this for a friend who models
Maine/New Hampshire in the late 1950's/early 1960's. The 50-foot
TTX cars can be done from the Bowser F30 kit."

A note on terminology - sometimes, PRR subclasses can be markedly
different cars from the parent class. In this case, the F30 was a
significantly different car from the F30A modeled by the Bowser kit:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PRR_470132_F30_E8814.jpg&fr=clF30
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PRR_474265_F30A_MLC1939.jpg&fr=clF30

If you're talking about the TOFC coversions, that would be Classes
F30D for the early conversions done by PRR, and F30G for the ones
done by TTX.
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PR475462.JPG&fr=clF30

This is true for several other classes that modelers abbreviate -
R50 (R50B), B60 (B60B). Am I being anal? Maybe, but it's worth the
effort to call things by their right name, especially as there's
always someone, especially newbies, who will take you literally.

These are great projects, Craig - they reinforce my point that you
have to do some work for accurate early TOFC cars. Unfortunately,
none of these fall into Joel's "ready to run (bad hands and weak
eyes)in HO" criteria.


Ben Hom


Yahoo! Groups Links





________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


jim_mischke <jmischke@...>
 

Prototype:

By this late (1960), the norm was 35' trailers, moving to 40'
trailers. The older 40' flat cars with custom tie downs were
disappearing, and the 75' flat cars, then 86' flat cars with standard
hitch were just coming out.



Models:

The Athearn 50' flat car is a toy. Its small trailers are a foot too
narrow, and too short to warrant two axles.

A far better flat car is the Life-like P2K AAR. It does not come
with tie downs or trailers, in either kit or RTR.

The Athearn 86' flat with trailers better represents a 1962-1964 era
than a 1960. It also might challenge your layout curvature.







--- In STMFC@..., "joel norman" <mec-bml@...> wrote:

GENTLEMAN: For our modeling time frame(my own railroad is set in
Maine
1960))which of the ready to run(bad hands and weak eyes)in HO would
be
the best 50 ft(or 60ft)flat car for TOFC use...
Thanks
Joel Norman... Eastern Maine Rly


Tim O'Connor
 

Red Caboose at one time planned to do a TOFC version of the
SP F-70-7 flat car, but I don't know what has become of that idea.

Athearn's most recent single-trailer TOFC cars actually use models
of real hitches, unlike the old two-trailer versions. So a very basic
conversion (without rub rails, etc) of an HO 50' to 53' flat car can be
done with a minimal amount of work, if you're not too concerned
about (or able to implement) exact prototypical details. The 40' trailers
are so well done that it's almost worthwhile to buy the RTR stuff
and toss the flat car, and make a more accurate TOFC conversion
using either the Walthers GSC flat (e.g. GN) or the P2K AAR flat
(e.g. NP, C&NW).

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
Craig Wilson wrote:
"There are other references too if you do some searching for BAR
photos. I found one of the later BAR trailers on a 50-foot (ex-PRR)
Trailer Train flatcar.

I have done models of a few of this for a friend who models
Maine/New Hampshire in the late 1950's/early 1960's. The 50-foot
TTX cars can be done from the Bowser F30 kit."

A note on terminology - sometimes, PRR subclasses can be markedly
different cars from the parent class. In this case, the F30 was a
significantly different car from the F30A modeled by the Bowser kit:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PRR_470132_F30_E8814.jpg&fr=clF30
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PRR_474265_F30A_MLC1939.jpg&fr=clF30

If you're talking about the TOFC coversions, that would be Classes
F30D for the early conversions done by PRR, and F30G for the ones
done by TTX.
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PR475462.JPG&fr=clF30

This is true for several other classes that modelers abbreviate -
R50 (R50B), B60 (B60B). Am I being anal? Maybe, but it's worth the
effort to call things by their right name, especially as there's
always someone, especially newbies, who will take you literally.

These are great projects, Craig - they reinforce my point that you
have to do some work for accurate early TOFC cars. Unfortunately,
none of these fall into Joel's "ready to run (bad hands and weak
eyes)in HO" criteria.


Ben Hom