Brian J Carlson wrote:

The assumption so far is that this car has a prototype. Until a picture is posted submitting potential roads is premature. How do we know that it isn't a brass version of a "generic" 50' boxcar. The car is older and prototype fidelity wasn't as critical back then.

You're absolutely right, Brian, but I think the goal was to find out if there are reasonably close prototypes, even if no exact match. But: as we've been discussing, there may not even be any, if the wood running board is retained.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Photos of my "mystery cars" have been posted in the Files area under
the folder "What Roads Had These Cars". There is a sub-folder for each
car.

Some of the links yahoogroups automatically posted to announce the
new files won't work because I put the wrong photos in one folder
and fixed it, and then made a typo in another folder name and fixed
it. Your best best is to browse the folders manually to find the
photos for which the link doesn't work. The folder names are pretty
self-descriptive.

The tank car folder includes two "acid dome" versions that are
painted and are waiting for weathering.

Hopefully the collective expertise of this group will be able to
identify appropriate paint schemes for the unpainted cars. For that
I thank all of you very much.

Rod

Anthony Thompson wrote:

On Sat, December 29, 2007 7:38 pm, Rod Miller wrote:

The tank car folder includes two "acid dome" versions that are
painted and are waiting for weathering.

Rod,

The 10K tank car looks to be a Type 27 AC&F car (although it could be a
type 21). The channel side sills on the ends are the spotting feature.
These were almost all privately owned. SHPX is a good bet since that is
the AC&F leasing arm... but numerous other companies leased or owned these
cars. The AC&F tank car book is a good place to go for photos of these.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Dec 29, 2007, at 5:38 PM, Rod Miller wrote:

Photos of my "mystery cars" have been posted in the Files area under
the folder "What Roads Had These Cars". There is a sub-folder for each
car.

Rod, I haven't had time to look at all of them yet, but I can identify
two for sure. The 40' single sheathed automobile car model is a dead
ringer for Missouri-Kansas-Texas 69001-69200, and I have prototype
photos of these cars. The unpainted tank car is (as Bruce Smith
suggested) a 10,000 gal. AC&F Type 27 which could be accurately painted
and lettered for numerous owners, including AC&F's own leasing
subsidiary, Shippers Car Line. Again, I have photos. Personally, I'd
choose a prototype based on the availability of accurate decal
lettering. I'll have more later on the two acid car models, both of
which represent AC&F-built prototype cars.

Richard Hendrickson

40' box with DP roof, 8' door .. At first I thought this
might be an EJ&E box car but the roof is wrong. I can't see
the ends very well in the photos, but judging from the panels
not being of equal width, this looks like a car that was built
with 6' doors and later rebuilt with 8' doors.

Tim O'Connor

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

On Dec 29, 2007, at 5:38 PM, Rod Miller wrote:

Photos of my "mystery cars" have been posted in the Files area

under

the folder "What Roads Had These Cars". There is a sub-folder

for each

car.

Rod, I haven't had time to look at all of them yet, but I can

identify

two for sure. The 40' single sheathed automobile car model is a

dead

ringer for Missouri-Kansas-Texas 69001-69200, and I have prototype
photos of these cars. The unpainted tank car is (as Bruce Smith
suggested) a 10,000 gal. AC&F Type 27 which could be accurately

painted

and lettered for numerous owners, including AC&F's own leasing
subsidiary, Shippers Car Line. Again, I have photos. Personally,

I'd

choose a prototype based on the availability of accurate decal
lettering. I'll have more later on the two acid car models, both

of

which represent AC&F-built prototype cars.

Richard Hendrickson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rod -

I think that PSC used the 1940 CBC plans for the M-K-T double door
single sheathed boxcar for their models. The 40' single sheathed
double door boxcar with steel ends and "vertical" brake staff
(PSC#15549) represents the M-K-T car as built in about 1937. The
same car, with steel ends and "Ajax" brakes (PSC#15551) is an unknown
to me; however, since the prototype M-K-T boxcars were ALL converted
to single door boxcars by 1945, and were also ALL converted to "Ajax"
brakes at that time. Perhaps a couple of the original double door
cars were converted to Ajax brakes before rebuilding, but I doubt
it. ORER data for EX HT would show this, but none of my ORERs
indicate this. I am converting my two PSC#15551 to single door cars
(not easy!)

PSC also imported a 40' single sheathed boxcar with double doors,
WOOD braced ends and vertical brake staff (PSC#15553) - I think this
is good for a Milwaukee prototype, also pictured in the CBC.

I am also interested to hear what others have to say about these cars!

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@..., Rod Miller <rod@...> wrote:

Photos of my "mystery cars" have been posted in the Files area under
the folder "What Roads Had These Cars". There is a sub-folder for

each

car.

Some of the links yahoogroups automatically posted to announce the
new files won't work because I put the wrong photos in one folder
and fixed it, and then made a typo in another folder name and fixed
it. Your best best is to browse the folders manually to find the
photos for which the link doesn't work. The folder names are pretty
self-descriptive.

The tank car folder includes two "acid dome" versions that are
painted and are waiting for weathering.

Hopefully the collective expertise of this group will be able to
identify appropriate paint schemes for the unpainted cars. For that
I thank all of you very much.

Rod

Rod -

I think the steel refrigerator car (PSC#15597) with "steel" roofwalks
is a PFE R-40-20. NP also had similar cars, but theirs may have had
wood roofwalks (not an NP expert!). If so, PSC#15517 is the exact
same car with wood roofwalks, and is also correct for only one of the
PFE R-40-20 cars. Tony's PFE book has the number of that unique car
(book is at home, and I am at work, goofing off).

A.T. Kott

On Dec 29, 2007, at 5:38 PM, Rod Miller wrote:

Photos of my "mystery cars" have been posted in the Files area under
the folder "What Roads Had These Cars". There is a sub-folder for each
car.

[snip]

The tank car folder includes two "acid dome" versions that are
painted and are waiting for weathering.

Rod, both cars are painted and lettered according to the instructions
supplied with Champ decals. Unfortunately, the Champ decals and
instructions for theMathieson model were bogus, and therefore the model
in incorrect. None of the ORERs in my collection show a Mathieson tank
car with the number 994, and the decal set is not for an acid car but
for a 6,000 gal. ICC-105 in liquid chlorine service. I would add that
the color is way off; the Mathieson tank car were painted a much darker
olive green. Ca. 1953 Mathieson owned only six 8,000 gal. TA class
cars, and they were numbered 1202-1207. In the absence of a photo,
there's no way to know whether the model is even remotely close to
those prototypes.

I have better news about the Dow Chemical car. DOWX 38321 was a
correct number for one of three 8,000 gal. lined acid tank cars in the
39320-38322 series, and it appears that the Champ decal set was based
on sightings or photos of an actual car. I can't say whether all the
details on the model are correct, but based on other photos of similar
cars, nothing about the model is obviously implausible.

Richard Hendrickson

On Dec 30, 2007, at 10:38 AM, proto48er wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote: [snip] ....The 40' single sheathed automobile car model is a
dead ringer for Missouri-Kansas-Texas 69001-69200....

I think that PSC used the 1940 CBC plans for the M-K-T double door
single sheathed boxcar for their models. The 40' single sheathed
double door boxcar with steel ends and "vertical" brake staff
(PSC#15549) represents the M-K-T car as built in about 1937. The
same car, with steel ends and "Ajax" brakes (PSC#15551) is an unknown
to me; however, since the prototype M-K-T boxcars were ALL converted
to single door boxcars by 1945, and were also ALL converted to "Ajax"
brakes at that time. Perhaps a couple of the original double door
cars were converted to Ajax brakes before rebuilding, but I doubt
it. ORER data for EX HT would show this, but none of my ORERs
indicate this.

This all squares with the information I have. The in-service photo I
have of M-K-T 69170, showing it in 5-36 with auto rack markings on the
doors, is a right hand 7/8 A end shot (from the Joe Collias collection)
which doesn't show the hand brake, but the ORER dimensions indicate a
vertical staff, not an Ajax, hand brake, so that's one detail that
would have to be changed on the model (and even then, as you point out,
the cars were all rebuilt as single door cars in the mid-1940s, so
that's a problem for anyone who models a later era).

Richard Hendrickson

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

On Dec 30, 2007, at 10:38 AM, proto48er wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@>
wrote: [snip] ....The 40' single sheathed automobile car model

is a

dead ringer for Missouri-Kansas-Texas 69001-69200....

I think that PSC used the 1940 CBC plans for the M-K-T double

door

single sheathed boxcar for their models. The 40' single sheathed
double door boxcar with steel ends and "vertical" brake staff
(PSC#15549) represents the M-K-T car as built in about 1937. The
same car, with steel ends and "Ajax" brakes (PSC#15551) is an

unknown

to me; however, since the prototype M-K-T boxcars were ALL

converted

to single door boxcars by 1945, and were also ALL converted

to "Ajax"

brakes at that time. Perhaps a couple of the original double door
cars were converted to Ajax brakes before rebuilding, but I doubt
it. ORER data for EX HT would show this, but none of my ORERs
indicate this.

This all squares with the information I have. The in-service photo

I

have of M-K-T 69170, showing it in 5-36 with auto rack markings on

the

doors, is a right hand 7/8 A end shot (from the Joe Collias

collection)

which doesn't show the hand brake, but the ORER dimensions indicate

a

vertical staff, not an Ajax, hand brake, so that's one detail that
would have to be changed on the model (and even then, as you point

out,

the cars were all rebuilt as single door cars in the mid-1940s, so
that's a problem for anyone who models a later era).

Richard Hendrickson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Richard -

As usual, I have a couple of corrections/additions to my previous
post! (We need a computer at home where the train stuff is!)

The M-K-T plans were also in the 1928 and 1931 CBCs. The MILW plans
and a photo of CM&StP #59499 are only in the 1928 CBC.

The MILW cars are a mystery to me, however. The photo of #59499
indicates that it was built 9/22 by General American Car Co. It is a
40-ton car with 41'-4 1/2" L over strikers, 40'-1/2" IL, 8'-6" IW and
10'-5 5/16" IH, 11'-0" door opening, with double WOOD doors. The
number would indicate to me that it was the LAST in a number series.
Nice general arrangement drawings are in the 1928 CBC for the car.

However, the 2/1925 ORER has no such number series for these cars.
Nor do any subsequent ORERs until the number series was taken up by
logging flats in the late 1940's.

Did the MILW assign these cars to another subsidiary? It is hard to
identify the MILW subsidiaries in the earlier ORERs, including the
1925 and 1927 ones I looked in. The CBC photo says "CM&StP" on the
car.

As an aside to the "O" scalers out there, the MILW car has 30'-0"
truck centers, while the M-K-T cars are 6'' further apart, so the
model may not work for the MILW car if you are too anal about these
things. Probably a difference in draft gears.

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@..., "proto48er" <atkott@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Rod Miller <rod@> wrote:

Photos of my "mystery cars" have been posted in the Files area

under

the folder "What Roads Had These Cars". There is a sub-folder for

each

car.

Some of the links yahoogroups automatically posted to announce the
new files won't work because I put the wrong photos in one folder
and fixed it, and then made a typo in another folder name and

fixed

it. Your best best is to browse the folders manually to find the
photos for which the link doesn't work. The folder names are

pretty

self-descriptive.

The tank car folder includes two "acid dome" versions that are
painted and are waiting for weathering.

Hopefully the collective expertise of this group will be able to
identify appropriate paint schemes for the unpainted cars. For

that

I thank all of you very much.

Rod

Rod -

I think the steel refrigerator car (PSC#15597) with "steel"

roofwalks

is a PFE R-40-20. NP also had similar cars, but theirs may have

had

wood roofwalks (not an NP expert!). If so, PSC#15517 is the exact
same car with wood roofwalks, and is also correct for only one of

the

PFE R-40-20 cars. Tony's PFE book has the number of that unique

car

(book is at home, and I am at work, goofing off).

A.T. Kott

Rod -

Went home at lunch and looked in Tony's PFE book. The correct number
series for your car (R-40-20) as built in 1945 is PFE #45701-#46702.
I cannot find any reference to one car having wood running boards,
but this is no problem for you, since yours has steel ones, as did at
least 999 cars in the series.

However, the thickness of the steel running boards on the model IS a
problem! They are too ham-fisted thick! The edges need to be
thinned down to about 0.030" thickness, but this means they have to
be mounted off the roof (with standoffs). The Korean model builders
cut into the roof ribs when mounting these steel roofwalks, so some
Bondo might be in order to fill the little cuts before remounting
them. Sweet are the uses of adversity that doth, like a toad, pour
forth a deadly venom, and yet hath a jewel in its head.

A.T. Kott