1. RealSTMFC | Main
  2. Topics

Westerfield CPR Fowler box cars

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

I've returned to these kits after many years of letting them sit on the shelf, and am starting to enjoy the project of building them. Of note - no distortion of the pats sitting in my basement all that time! Most are the old very dark grey resin, which had its issues, but my project is moving along smoothly enough so far with 7 bodies built except underframes/floor castings.

However, as I work on the cars I keep comparing them to other similar models on the market and to prototype photos, making changes as seems right. Being a long lived group of cars that were built and re-built, it is tough to follow all the permutations - even with numerous magazine articles as resources. So while I've scanned high and low, I have not managed to find any proto photos that explain the underframe design on most of the kits.

The underframes in question have straight cross bearers (or what ever they are officially called). These straight cross bearers are fabricated, but resemble I beams. Their ends protrude below the car side sills several scale inches - especially the larger two in line with the door posts.

In contrast is one underframe casting that has the cross bearers frame sections with a tapered shape such that they connect to the inner side of the side sill and are not visible below the car side. This latter version seem prevalent in all of the photos I've looked at.

So my question: What cars (number series) do the straight/exposed crossbearer underframes match with? Did these last in service with this frame design into 1946? Or do I need to modify the frame design to match the cars with tapered section cross bearers?

Thanks in advance

Rob Kirkham

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

So my question: What cars (number series) do the straight/exposed
crossbearer underframes match with? Did these last in service with
this
frame design into 1946? Or do I need to modify the frame design to
match
the cars with tapered section cross bearers?

Thanks in advance

Rob Kirkham
Hi, Rob,

You might want to check the CPSig site and see if any drawings of
these cars have made it through the scanning to the on-line drawing
archives project.

I seem to recall you have already assembled all the data known to man
on these cars. I only have detail photos of one Soo Line version of
this design, which has tapered crossbearers, but this won't help with
your larger question.

I do recall, somewhere in the recesses of distant memory, that these
were very early Westerfield kits, and the floor / underframe was
simply (GASP!) incorrect. But I may be wrong on that.

I will say, the Soo Line cars did have the BOLSTER project a couple
inches below the side sills. but the crossbearers met the bottom of
the sills as would be expected.

Dennis

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Thanks Dennis - I have gone over the drawings on the CPSig (now Historical Assoc. - CPHA) site, and don't find any examples of the design that raises my question.

Perhaps you're correct and the frames are incorrect. I'll ask some other folks and see what can be learned, but meanwhile I think its time to start working on a modification.
Rob Kirkham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 8:32 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Westerfield CPR Fowler box cars


--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

So my question: What cars (number series) do the straight/exposed
crossbearer underframes match with? Did these last in service with
this
frame design into 1946? Or do I need to modify the frame design to
match
the cars with tapered section cross bearers?

Thanks in advance

Rob Kirkham
Hi, Rob,

You might want to check the CPSig site and see if any drawings of
these cars have made it through the scanning to the on-line drawing
archives project.

I seem to recall you have already assembled all the data known to man
on these cars. I only have detail photos of one Soo Line version of
this design, which has tapered crossbearers, but this won't help with
your larger question.

I do recall, somewhere in the recesses of distant memory, that these
were very early Westerfield kits, and the floor / underframe was
simply (GASP!) incorrect. But I may be wrong on that.

I will say, the Soo Line cars did have the BOLSTER project a couple
inches below the side sills. but the crossbearers met the bottom of
the sills as would be expected.

Dennis





Yahoo! Groups Links





--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1212 - Release Date: 1/6/2008 10:55 PM

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

I remember working on some of these models myself a few years ago and
felt that the underframe casting was not correct.
I'm hoping that Al Westerfield himself will step in and clarify this
debate.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

Thanks Dennis - I have gone over the drawings on the CPSig (now
Historical
Assoc. - CPHA) site, and don't find any examples of the design that
raises
my question.

Perhaps you're correct and the frames are incorrect. I'll ask some
other
folks and see what can be learned, but meanwhile I think its time
to start
working on a modification.
Rob Kirkham
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 8:32 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Westerfield CPR Fowler box cars


--- In STMFC@..., Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@> wrote:

So my question: What cars (number series) do the straight/exposed
crossbearer underframes match with? Did these last in service
with
this
frame design into 1946? Or do I need to modify the frame design
to
match
the cars with tapered section cross bearers?

Thanks in advance

Rob Kirkham
Hi, Rob,

You might want to check the CPSig site and see if any drawings of
these cars have made it through the scanning to the on-line
drawing
archives project.

I seem to recall you have already assembled all the data known to
man
on these cars. I only have detail photos of one Soo Line version
of
this design, which has tapered crossbearers, but this won't help
with
your larger question.

I do recall, somewhere in the recesses of distant memory, that
these
were very early Westerfield kits, and the floor / underframe was
simply (GASP!) incorrect. But I may be wrong on that.

I will say, the Soo Line cars did have the BOLSTER project a
couple
inches below the side sills. but the crossbearers met the bottom
of
the sills as would be expected.

Dennis





Yahoo! Groups Links





--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1212 - Release Date:
1/6/2008
10:55 PM

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Rob - Yes, the early Fowler models had incorrect crossbearers. We corrected the error promptly but since at the time we sold only through distributors there was no way to notify modelers. For about 20 years we replaced old resin kits with new material at our cost. We stopped as part of our semi-retirement. - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Kirkham
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 1:20 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Westerfield CPR Fowler box cars


I've returned to these kits after many years of letting them sit on the
shelf, and am starting to enjoy the project of building them. Of note - no
distortion of the pats sitting in my basement all that time! Most are the
old very dark grey resin, which had its issues, but my project is moving
along smoothly enough so far with 7 bodies built except underframes/floor
castings.

However, as I work on the cars I keep comparing them to other similar models
on the market and to prototype photos, making changes as seems right. Being
a long lived group of cars that were built and re-built, it is tough to
follow all the permutations - even with numerous magazine articles as
resources. So while I've scanned high and low, I have not managed to find
any proto photos that explain the underframe design on most of the kits.

The underframes in question have straight cross bearers (or what ever they
are officially called). These straight cross bearers are fabricated, but
resemble I beams. Their ends protrude below the car side sills several
scale inches - especially the larger two in line with the door posts.

In contrast is one underframe casting that has the cross bearers frame
sections with a tapered shape such that they connect to the inner side of
the side sill and are not visible below the car side. This latter version
seem prevalent in all of the photos I've looked at.

So my question: What cars (number series) do the straight/exposed
crossbearer underframes match with? Did these last in service with this
frame design into 1946? Or do I need to modify the frame design to match
the cars with tapered section cross bearers?

Thanks in advance

Rob Kirkham

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

No problem Al! Thanks for taking the trouble to comment on this. I knew years ago about your willingness to replace the older kits - thought it was the dark resin that was the issue, and hadn't noticed the frame until last week. I never felt it fair to ask you replace the kits. As another modeller I've conversed with off line recently advised, its a relatively easy task to snap of the offending ribs and replace with styrene bits - which is exactly what I plan to do.

What I especially like about your kits is that the side bracing spacing is correct for CPR. With problems in the Kaslo and Hobbycraft cars, the Westerfield Fowler kits remain the best bet in town for the CPR modeller.

Regards

Rob Kirkham

----- Original Message -----
From: "Westerfield" <westerfield@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Westerfield CPR Fowler box cars


Rob - Yes, the early Fowler models had incorrect crossbearers. We corrected the error promptly but since at the time we sold only through distributors there was no way to notify modelers. For about 20 years we replaced old resin kits with new material at our cost. We stopped as part of our semi-retirement. - Al Westerfield
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Kirkham
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 1:20 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Westerfield CPR Fowler box cars


I've returned to these kits after many years of letting them sit on the
shelf, and am starting to enjoy the project of building them. Of note - no
distortion of the pats sitting in my basement all that time! Most are the
old very dark grey resin, which had its issues, but my project is moving
along smoothly enough so far with 7 bodies built except underframes/floor
castings.

However, as I work on the cars I keep comparing them to other similar models
on the market and to prototype photos, making changes as seems right. Being
a long lived group of cars that were built and re-built, it is tough to
follow all the permutations - even with numerous magazine articles as
resources. So while I've scanned high and low, I have not managed to find
any proto photos that explain the underframe design on most of the kits.

The underframes in question have straight cross bearers (or what ever they
are officially called). These straight cross bearers are fabricated, but
resemble I beams. Their ends protrude below the car side sills several
scale inches - especially the larger two in line with the door posts.

In contrast is one underframe casting that has the cross bearers frame
sections with a tapered shape such that they connect to the inner side of
the side sill and are not visible below the car side. This latter version
seem prevalent in all of the photos I've looked at.

So my question: What cars (number series) do the straight/exposed
crossbearer underframes match with? Did these last in service with this
frame design into 1946? Or do I need to modify the frame design to match
the cars with tapered section cross bearers?

Thanks in advance

Rob Kirkham









Yahoo! Groups Links





--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1214 - Release Date: 1/8/2008 1:38 PM

1 - 6 of 6