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Question re 12-Panel boxcars

jim peters
 

Sorry for the late respose,

In your post from a month ago, Mark you mentioned C&BT kits 10'-6" IH, 12-pnl boxcar. Looking at Walthers "Reference" book, I see 3 different kit numbers listed (193-13500, -10500, -11300) . . . it was my understanding most of C&BT's later efforts are more like "Blue-Box" wanna-be's. The question is are any of the kit number above the older style kit with separate ladders, grabs, etc? All I really want is the body shell/s.

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, BC


To: STMFC@yahoogroups.comFrom: Goatfisher2@comcast.netDate: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:35:44 -0800Subject: RE: [STMFC] Boxcar details and paint, series GN 20500-21449




Mark,Here's some info that may help you out:3) All in this series had the 5 panel Superior Door.5) Build date for series 20500 - 21499 is 1952.6) Yup - that's original paint. Consider also Microscale 87-185.For references:Mainline Modeler - 9/85, 11/2001, 12/2001RMJ - 10/1998 IIRC, the Mainline articles are your better bet - the RMJ article was mostlyabout a Duane Buck customization of an Intermountain 10' 12 panel car, butmight have had photos of the 10' 6" car.Best starting point - C&BT 10'6" 12-panel car* with 4/3/1 ends. Throw awaythe details and replace with appropriate details from Plano, Branchline,etc.* At some point in the past there was discussion of Branchline bringing outa 10' 6" 12-panel car. I'm not aware of this happening, but if it did, itmight well be a better choice.Ping me if you need more.Best regards,Steve HaasSammamish, WA






_________________________________________________________________
SUVCWORR@...
 

In a message dated 1/17/2008 12:10:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mikado2206@hotmail.com writes:

In your post from a month ago, Mark you mentioned C&BT kits 10'-6" IH,
12-pnl boxcar. Looking at Walthers "Reference" book, I see 3 different kit
numbers listed (193-13500, -10500, -11300) . . . it was my understanding most of
C&BT's later efforts are more like "Blue-Box" wanna-be's. The question is are
any of the kit number above the older style kit with separate ladders,
grabs, etc? All I really want is the body shell/s.




NO.

C&BT on the advice of several well known modelers changed from separate
grabs, ladders etc. to molded on parts by recuting the dies. Once the ladders,
grabs etc, were cut into the dies, there was no going back without making all
new dies. All boxcars produced since that fateful time, have the details
molded on.

Rich Orr



**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
SUVCWORR@...
 

Larry,

I can only state what the die cutter told Dick Schweiger. Not my area of
expertise. Maybe the die cutter just didn't want to do it. I don't know.

Rich Orr

In a message dated 1/17/2008 8:05:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Ljack70117@comcast.net writes:

see below


Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast.net
Boca Raton FL 33434
I want to die in my sleep like
my grandfather did, not screaming
like the other people in his car.


On Jan 17, 2008, at 7:50 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote:


In a message dated 1/17/2008 12:10:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mikado2206@hotmail.com writes:

In your post from a month ago, Mark you mentioned C&BT kits 10'-6"
IH,
12-pnl boxcar. Looking at Walthers "Reference" book, I see 3
different kit
numbers listed (193-13500, -10500, -11300) . . . it was my
understanding most of
C&BT's later efforts are more like "Blue-Box" wanna-be's. The
question is are
any of the kit number above the older style kit with separate
ladders,
grabs, etc? All I really want is the body shell/s.




NO.

C&BT on the advice of several well known modelers changed from
separate
grabs, ladders etc. to molded on parts by recuting the dies. Once
the ladders,
grabs etc, were cut into the dies,
Wrong. you can fill any cavities that you do not want. If Brass molds
you use soldier. If steel you can weld. Then you can re-cut the area
as you want it. In My machine shop experience I have saves several
dies and molds that way.
Some times you make a mistake and you cut the area out weld or
soldier a new block in the hole and start cutting again. Easy to fix
mistakes or change things.
there was no going back without making all
new dies. All boxcars produced since that fateful time, have the
details
molded on.

Rich Orr






**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
SUVCWORR@...
 

In a message dated 1/17/2008 8:28:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
thompson@signaturepress.com writes:

Rich Orr wrote:
I can only state what the die cutter told Dick Schweiger.
Given some of the other claims and performances of Dick's die
cutter, Rich, you need to consider the source.



Tony, I can't argue with that. The die cutter is why we don't have the X29b
and X29d.

Rich



**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@...>
 

see below


Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast.net
Boca Raton FL 33434
I want to die in my sleep like
my grandfather did, not screaming
like the other people in his car.


On Jan 17, 2008, at 7:50 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote:


In a message dated 1/17/2008 12:10:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mikado2206@hotmail.com writes:

In your post from a month ago, Mark you mentioned C&BT kits 10'-6" IH,
12-pnl boxcar. Looking at Walthers "Reference" book, I see 3 different kit
numbers listed (193-13500, -10500, -11300) . . . it was my understanding most of
C&BT's later efforts are more like "Blue-Box" wanna-be's. The question is are
any of the kit number above the older style kit with separate ladders,
grabs, etc? All I really want is the body shell/s.




NO.

C&BT on the advice of several well known modelers changed from separate
grabs, ladders etc. to molded on parts by recuting the dies. Once the ladders,
grabs etc, were cut into the dies,
Wrong. you can fill any cavities that you do not want. If Brass molds you use soldier. If steel you can weld. Then you can re-cut the area as you want it. In My machine shop experience I have saves several dies and molds that way.
Some times you make a mistake and you cut the area out weld or soldier a new block in the hole and start cutting again. Easy to fix mistakes or change things.
there was no going back without making all
new dies. All boxcars produced since that fateful time, have the details
molded on.

Rich Orr



**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489






Yahoo! Groups Links
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Larry Jackman wrote:
Wrong. you can fill any cavities that you do not want . . . then you can re-cut the area
as you want it.
Larry's exactly right. This is how it works.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rich Orr wrote:
I can only state what the die cutter told Dick Schweiger.
Given some of the other claims and performances of Dick's die cutter, Rich, you need to consider the source.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history
Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@...>
 

You may have hit it on the head. But I have never seen a mold or die that could not be changed.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast.net
Boca Raton FL 33434
My parents did not raise
any stupid children. They
sent the ten of us to the
neighbors to play and then
moved. They raised the four
of us that found them.

On Jan 17, 2008, at 8:25 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote:


Larry,

I can only state what the die cutter told Dick Schweiger. Not my area of
expertise. Maybe the die cutter just didn't want to do it. I don't know.

Rich Orr

In a message dated 1/17/2008 8:05:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Ljack70117@comcast.net writes:

see below


Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast.net
Boca Raton FL 33434
I want to die in my sleep like
my grandfather did, not screaming
like the other people in his car.


On Jan 17, 2008, at 7:50 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote:


In a message dated 1/17/2008 12:10:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mikado2206@hotmail.com writes:

In your post from a month ago, Mark you mentioned C&BT kits 10'-6"
IH,
12-pnl boxcar. Looking at Walthers "Reference" book, I see 3
different kit
numbers listed (193-13500, -10500, -11300) . . . it was my
understanding most of
C&BT's later efforts are more like "Blue-Box" wanna-be's. The
question is are
any of the kit number above the older style kit with separate
ladders,
grabs, etc? All I really want is the body shell/s.




NO.

C&BT on the advice of several well known modelers changed from
separate
grabs, ladders etc. to molded on parts by recuting the dies. Once
the ladders,
grabs etc, were cut into the dies,
Wrong. you can fill any cavities that you do not want. If Brass molds
you use soldier. If steel you can weld. Then you can re-cut the area
as you want it. In My machine shop experience I have saves several
dies and molds that way.
Some times you make a mistake and you cut the area out weld or
soldier a new block in the hole and start cutting again. Easy to fix
mistakes or change things.
there was no going back without making all
new dies. All boxcars produced since that fateful time, have the
details
molded on.

Rich Orr






**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489






Yahoo! Groups Links
Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@...>
 

I do not believe that either. How many 10s of thousand mold makers are there in this world. One could not stop the project> If one wont do it then find a second or third. The person doing the project is at fault.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast.net
Boca Raton FL 33434
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left.

On Jan 17, 2008, at 8:31 PM, SUVCWORR@aol.com wrote:


Tony, I can't argue with that. The die cutter is why we don't have the X29b
and X29d.

Rich
Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Guys;



How does the C&BT compare to the Intermountain 12-panel? Is there some
difference that makes the C&BT the only choice for this application?



Thanks,



Elden Gatwood





________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jim
peters
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 12:09 PM
To: stmfc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars




Sorry for the late respose,

In your post from a month ago, Mark you mentioned C&BT kits 10'-6" IH, 12-pnl
boxcar. Looking at Walthers "Reference" book, I see 3 different kit numbers
listed (193-13500, -10500, -11300) . . . it was my understanding most of
C&BT's later efforts are more like "Blue-Box" wanna-be's. The question is are
any of the kit number above the older style kit with separate ladders, grabs,
etc? All I really want is the body shell/s.

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, BC

To: STMFC@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :
Goatfisher2@comcast.netDate <mailto:Goatfisher2%40comcast.netDate> : Sun, 16
Dec 2007 20:35:44 -0800Subject: RE: [STMFC] Boxcar details and paint, series
GN 20500-21449

Mark,Here's some info that may help you out:3) All in this series had the 5
panel Superior Door.5) Build date for series 20500 - 21499 is 1952.6) Yup -
that's original paint. Consider also Microscale 87-185.For
references:Mainline Modeler - 9/85, 11/2001, 12/2001RMJ - 10/1998 IIRC, the
Mainline articles are your better bet - the RMJ article was mostlyabout a
Duane Buck customization of an Intermountain 10' 12 panel car, butmight have
had photos of the 10' 6" car.Best starting point - C&BT 10'6" 12-panel car*
with 4/3/1 ends. Throw awaythe details and replace with appropriate details
from Plano, Branchline,etc.* At some point in the past there was discussion
of Branchline bringing outa 10' 6" 12-panel car. I'm not aware of this
happening, but if it did, itmight well be a better choice.Ping me if you need
more.Best regards,Steve HaasSammamish, WA

__________________________________________________________
Carl J. Marsico <Carlmarsico@...>
 

CB&T is 10'6" IH, Intermountain is 10' IH. Branchline had announced 12-panel cars awhile back, presumably 10'6" IH to fit their existing components, but I've heard a problem arose w/their die maker.

Carl J. Marsico

----- Original Message ----
From: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD" <Elden.J.Gatwood@sad01.usace.army.mil>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 6:24:02 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars

Guys;

How does the C&BT compare to the Intermountain 12-panel? Is there some
difference that makes the C&BT the only choice for this application?

Thanks,

Elden Gatwood

____________ _________ _________ __

From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jim
peters
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 12:09 PM
To: stmfc@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars

Sorry for the late respose,

In your post from a month ago, Mark you mentioned C&BT kits 10'-6" IH, 12-pnl
boxcar. Looking at Walthers "Reference" book, I see 3 different kit numbers
listed (193-13500, -10500, -11300) . . . it was my understanding most of
C&BT's later efforts are more like "Blue-Box" wanna-be's. The question is are
any of the kit number above the older style kit with separate ladders, grabs,
etc? All I really want is the body shell/s.

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, BC

To: STMFC@yahoogroups. comFrom <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. comFrom> :
Goatfisher2@ comcast.netDate <mailto:Goatfisher2 %40comcast. netDate> : Sun, 16
Dec 2007 20:35:44 -0800Subject: RE: [STMFC] Boxcar details and paint, series
GN 20500-21449

Mark,Here's some info that may help you out:3) All in this series had the 5
panel Superior Door.5) Build date for series 20500 - 21499 is 1952.6) Yup -
that's original paint. Consider also Microscale 87-185.For
references:Mainline Modeler - 9/85, 11/2001, 12/2001RMJ - 10/1998 IIRC, the
Mainline articles are your better bet - the RMJ article was mostlyabout a
Duane Buck customization of an Intermountain 10' 12 panel car, butmight have
had photos of the 10' 6" car.Best starting point - C&BT 10'6" 12-panel car*
with 4/3/1 ends. Throw awaythe details and replace with appropriate details
from Plano, Branchline,etc. * At some point in the past there was discussion
of Branchline bringing outa 10' 6" 12-panel car. I'm not aware of this
happening, but if it did, itmight well be a better choice.Ping me if you need
more.Best regards,Steve HaasSammamish, WA

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Thank you, Carl!



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carl
J. Marsico
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 7:36 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars



CB&T is 10'6" IH, Intermountain is 10' IH. Branchline had announced 12-panel
cars awhile back, presumably 10'6" IH to fit their existing components, but
I've heard a problem arose w/their die maker.

Carl J. Marsico

----- Original Message ----
From: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD" <Elden.J.Gatwood@sad01.usace.army.mil
<mailto:Elden.J.Gatwood%40sad01.usace.army.mil> >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 6:24:02 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars

Guys;

How does the C&BT compare to the Intermountain 12-panel? Is there some
difference that makes the C&BT the only choice for this application?

Thanks,

Elden Gatwood

____________ _________ _________ __

From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jim
peters
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 12:09 PM
To: stmfc@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars

Sorry for the late respose,

In your post from a month ago, Mark you mentioned C&BT kits 10'-6" IH, 12-pnl
boxcar. Looking at Walthers "Reference" book, I see 3 different kit numbers
listed (193-13500, -10500, -11300) . . . it was my understanding most of
C&BT's later efforts are more like "Blue-Box" wanna-be's. The question is are
any of the kit number above the older style kit with separate ladders, grabs,
etc? All I really want is the body shell/s.

Jim Peters
Coquitlam, BC

To: STMFC@yahoogroups. comFrom <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. comFrom> :
Goatfisher2@ comcast.netDate <mailto:Goatfisher2 %40comcast. netDate> : Sun,
16
Dec 2007 20:35:44 -0800Subject: RE: [STMFC] Boxcar details and paint, series
GN 20500-21449

Mark,Here's some info that may help you out:3) All in this series had the 5
panel Superior Door.5) Build date for series 20500 - 21499 is 1952.6) Yup -
that's original paint. Consider also Microscale 87-185.For
references:Mainline Modeler - 9/85, 11/2001, 12/2001RMJ - 10/1998 IIRC, the
Mainline articles are your better bet - the RMJ article was mostlyabout a
Duane Buck customization of an Intermountain 10' 12 panel car, butmight have
had photos of the 10' 6" car.Best starting point - C&BT 10'6" 12-panel car*
with 4/3/1 ends. Throw awaythe details and replace with appropriate details
from Plano, Branchline,etc. * At some point in the past there was discussion
of Branchline bringing outa 10' 6" 12-panel car. I'm not aware of this
happening, but if it did, itmight well be a better choice.Ping me if you need
more.Best regards,Steve HaasSammamish, WA

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Tim O'Connor
 

The C&BT tooling is pretty crude by current standards.

At 1/18/2008 07:36 AM Friday, you wrote:
Thank you, Carl!

Elden Gatwood
_______________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carl
J. Marsico
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 7:36 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars



CB&T is 10'6" IH, Intermountain is 10' IH. Branchline had announced 12-panel
cars awhile back, presumably 10'6" IH to fit their existing components, but
I've heard a problem arose w/their die maker.

Carl J. Marsico
Gatwood, Elden J SAD <Elden.J.Gatwood@...>
 

Tim;



You are right. My C&BT X29B has rivets the size of my fist (well, if I was
little, that is).



Elden



________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 8:47 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars




The C&BT tooling is pretty crude by current standards.

At 1/18/2008 07:36 AM Friday, you wrote:
Thank you, Carl!

Elden Gatwood
_______________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Carl
J. Marsico
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 7:36 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Question re 12-Panel boxcars



CB&T is 10'6" IH, Intermountain is 10' IH. Branchline had announced 12-panel
cars awhile back, presumably 10'6" IH to fit their existing components, but
I've heard a problem arose w/their die maker.

Carl J. Marsico
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