Adding weight to a stock car


Andy Cich <ajc5150@...>
 

I am building a resin stock car, my first. So far I have assembled both
ends, the floor, the roof, and one side. I have added trucks and couplers,
and the car sits level and tracks well without listing or wobbling. I plan
to add weight, paint the interior, and then add the second side. I have
some lead sheet to use for the weight, and need to add 2 oz.

Where the side lines up with the floor, there is an opening between slats.
If I place the weight on the floor, it will either be visible through that
opening or block it. Attaching the weight to the roof looks to be the ideal
spot. However, this will make the car top heavy. Will I experience any
operational difficulties with a top heavy car?

The underframe is very visible on this car so adding weight down there is
not an option. I would appreciate any thoughts/experiences/observations on
attaching the weight to the roof (inside the car, or course).


Thanks,

Andy Cich


al_brown03
 

My own one resin stock car was weighted with an old Athearn boxcar
weight, I think. Laid it inside the car, on the floor, and painted it
dark. I say "I think" because I don't remember for sure, and I can't
see it even with a flashlight. The low profile is key.

I wouldn't weight a car up high. It probably wouldn't actually rock
off the track, the way big covered hoppers will on shortlines with
bad track (looking into the future, after this list's timeframe); but
I suspect I'd notice when it hit a rough rail joint.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@..., "Andy Cich" <ajc5150@...> wrote:

I am building a resin stock car, my first. So far I have assembled
both
ends, the floor, the roof, and one side. I have added trucks and
couplers,
and the car sits level and tracks well without listing or
wobbling. I plan
to add weight, paint the interior, and then add the second side. I
have
some lead sheet to use for the weight, and need to add 2 oz.

Where the side lines up with the floor, there is an opening between
slats.
If I place the weight on the floor, it will either be visible
through that
opening or block it. Attaching the weight to the roof looks to be
the ideal
spot. However, this will make the car top heavy. Will I
experience any
operational difficulties with a top heavy car?

The underframe is very visible on this car so adding weight down
there is
not an option. I would appreciate any
thoughts/experiences/observations on
attaching the weight to the roof (inside the car, or course).


Thanks,

Andy Cich


Eric Hansmann
 

--- Andy Cich wrote:

I would appreciate any thoughts/experiences/observations on
attaching the weight to the roof (inside the car, or course).
=========================================



Rather than using sheet stock, how about something that is in the shape
of cattle? Cast metal cows may enable a load with the weight closer to
the rail. If cast metal cattle can't be found, then you may be able to
shape the lead sheet into the approximate shapes. If only five or six
steer use the two ounces of weight, then fill out the car with plastic
cattle.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Andy,
I've weighted stock cars using sheet steel, sheet lead and lumpen
masses of lead. After painting and weathering I've found that the
actual weights are not very noticable at all.
I would most definitly avoid placing the weight up high. Try using
metal trucks and metal wheelsets as well. It will all help.
Pierre Oliver


--- In STMFC@..., "Andy Cich" <ajc5150@...> wrote:

I am building a resin stock car, my first. So far I have assembled
both
ends, the floor, the roof, and one side. I have added trucks and
couplers,
and the car sits level and tracks well without listing or
wobbling. I plan
to add weight, paint the interior, and then add the second side. I
have
some lead sheet to use for the weight, and need to add 2 oz.

Where the side lines up with the floor, there is an opening between
slats.
If I place the weight on the floor, it will either be visible
through that
opening or block it. Attaching the weight to the roof looks to be
the ideal
spot. However, this will make the car top heavy. Will I
experience any
operational difficulties with a top heavy car?

The underframe is very visible on this car so adding weight down
there is
not an option. I would appreciate any
thoughts/experiences/observations on
attaching the weight to the roof (inside the car, or course).


Thanks,

Andy Cich


djm1141 <dmueller183@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Andy Cich" <ajc5150@...> wrote:

I am building a resin stock car, my first. So far I have assembled
both
ends, the floor, the roof, and one side. I have added trucks and
couplers,
and the car sits level and tracks well without listing or
wobbling. I plan
to add weight, paint the interior, and then add the second side. I
have
some lead sheet to use for the weight, and need to add 2 oz.

Where the side lines up with the floor, there is an opening between
slats.
If I place the weight on the floor, it will either be visible
through that
opening or block it. Attaching the weight to the roof looks to be
the ideal
spot. However, this will make the car top heavy. Will I
experience any
operational difficulties with a top heavy car?

The underframe is very visible on this car so adding weight down
there is
not an option. I would appreciate any
thoughts/experiences/observations on
attaching the weight to the roof (inside the car, or course).


Thanks,

Andy Cich
***************************************
A few lead cows would work......


Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Andy,

Just a "few lead cows" won't quite work. Cattle had to be packed tightly in stock cars so they couldn't fall over. If they did, they were usually fatally trampled. Now if you buy some lead cattle (Bowser maybe), you could find enough weight, but would have to fill the rest in with plastic cows.

I suggest you use a weight that is narrow enough so that it stays 1/8" or more in from the slats. Paint the weight whatever color is the least visible inside your car.

I once filled some stock cars with plastic piggies from Archie McFee: http://www.mcphee.com/items/09352.html . They are about $9.95 a gross, and it took about two dozen to make the car look full (which it wasn't). McFee's pigs are supposedly only about 1/8" long according to the catalog, but actually they are around 5/8" (they've advertised them this way for years; maybe the McFee's can't measure). They size up pretty well to young pigs I saw at the county fair. Of course, pigs would normally be in double-deck cars. And no, they didn't add much weight.

Richard Hendrickson used some amorphous white blobs of foam or some other material to simulate sheep. They looked great through the slats. Double-deck cars again.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

djm1141 wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Andy Cich" <ajc5150@...> wrote:

I am building a resin stock car, my first. So far I have assembled
both

ends, the floor, the roof, and one side. I have added trucks and
couplers,

and the car sits level and tracks well without listing or
wobbling. I plan

to add weight, paint the interior, and then add the second side. I
have

some lead sheet to use for the weight, and need to add 2 oz.

Where the side lines up with the floor, there is an opening between
slats.

If I place the weight on the floor, it will either be visible
through that

opening or block it. Attaching the weight to the roof looks to be
the ideal

spot. However, this will make the car top heavy. Will I
experience any

operational difficulties with a top heavy car?

The underframe is very visible on this car so adding weight down
there is

not an option. I would appreciate any
thoughts/experiences/observations on

attaching the weight to the roof (inside the car, or course).


Thanks,

Andy Cich

***************************************
A few lead cows would work......



Yahoo! Groups Links




Tim O'Connor
 

I think a loaded stock car has 4-6" of sand and straw on top of
the floor. So there is no need to hide a flat weight, just paint it a
dark color... A clean, empty stock car presents a different problem.

Tim O'Connor


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Garth G. Groff wrote:
Just a "few lead cows" won't quite work. Cattle had to be packed tightly in stock cars so they couldn't fall over. If they did, they were usually fatally trampled . . .
But the only goal is to LOOK full. As is readily demonstrated with any stock car model, visibility is pretty darn restricted. If you want a loaded car, make it LOOK full. Richard Hendrickson's use of rough foam approximations of livestock works because you can't really discern what's in there. So I'd say, put a suitable weight in the car center, add some stock at the outside if you want, and you're done.
Personally, I don't put stock in the cars because I don't want them ALWAYS loaded, and since one can't see in very well, it's not normally a problem. Same point regarding weight: I just put it on the floor and paint flat black. It's essentially invisible.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

Cutting the weight so it is narrower than the floor by 1/8" or so will keep it
from showing from most angles. Don't forget that straw or sand bedding was
placed in the cars and that would prevent a clear view through the lowest
opening.

CJ Riley


--- Andy Cich <ajc5150@...> wrote:

I am building a resin stock car, my first. So far I have assembled both
ends, the floor, the roof, and one side. I have added trucks and couplers,
and the car sits level and tracks well without listing or wobbling. I plan
to add weight, paint the interior, and then add the second side. I have
some lead sheet to use for the weight, and need to add 2 oz.

Where the side lines up with the floor, there is an opening between slats.
If I place the weight on the floor, it will either be visible through that
opening or block it. Attaching the weight to the roof looks to be the ideal
spot. However, this will make the car top heavy. Will I experience any
operational difficulties with a top heavy car?

The underframe is very visible on this car so adding weight down there is
not an option. I would appreciate any thoughts/experiences/observations on
attaching the weight to the roof (inside the car, or course).


Thanks,

Andy Cich


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Andy Cich <ajc5150@...>
 

----Original Message-----
I suggest you use a weight that is narrow enough so that it stays 1/8"
or more in from the slats. Paint the weight whatever color is the least
visible inside your car.



Thanks to all that replied. I tested out the car with a weight fastened to
the roof with double sided tape, and found that is not a good idea. The
suggestion above is the one that works best for me.


Andy Cich


Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
 

Will I experience any operational difficulties with a top heavy car?
Depends on the state of your track - if you lay perfect track with
transition curves it may not be an issue, but top weight makes the car
unstable on poorly laid industrial tracks or authentically decrepit
short line

Here's a couple of thing that have worked for me

1 Cast the floor in white metal using the kit parts as a master and
high temp RTV for the mould. (Only works if you have a tolerant
domestic authority or your own workshop where you can play with hot
metal). The metal casting will tend to shrink a little so it won't be
a perfect match

2. Check the small suppliers for white metal or pewter occupants I
used some OO scale cows from Langley models mixed in with plastic cows

Aidrian


Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tony Thompson writes about stock car weights:

"Same point regarding weight: I just put it on the
floor and paint flat black."

Flat black? Have you studied the...uh....floor colors of these cars? Wouldn't you be better off coming up with a...uh...chip color [ somewhat akin to "buffalo chips" that were used supposedly long ago in the west for camp fires ] from...uh...cattle to compare to? The question would depend, I suppose, on the type of cattle. Hereford Brown perhaps? Angus Dark Brown or maybe Long Horn Greenish Brown? Obviously, I'm not much on cattle but might not the color of "chips" depend upon the food source? I cannot imagine how one might come up with the "correct" color without a "chip" to match. Hmmm. Wonder where one might obtain such "chips" from the steam era?

Mike Brock


Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

Mike Brock, misunderstanding the meaning of "color chip", wrote:
Flat black? Have you studied the...uh....floor colors of these
cars? Wouldn't you be better off coming up with a...uh...chip color
[ somewhat akin to "buffalo chips" that were used supposedly long ago
in the west for camp fires ] from...uh...cattle to compare to?
[exploration of sources and colors of such chips deleted]

At the risk of taking this seriously, wouldn't an empty stock car tend
to be clean and cleared of such debris? I'm thinking of Al Hoffman's
rather vivid description of the condition of poultry cars after they've
been off-loaded, and how quickly and thoroughly they were cleaned.
Shouldn't think stock cars would be all that different. So unless
you're going to model loaded stock cars, flat black would seem like the
best bet for a floor weight.

For some reason this brings to mind a Mason Williams' Smothers Brothers
sketch, which CBS censored:

Tom Smothers: In Russia, they've got this really great ballet....

Dick Smothers: Bolshoi.

Tom Smothers: No, really, they do!

Tom Madden


Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Tony,

Pigs and sheep, which were loaded more or less at random, require only enough animals (or blobs) to give the illusion of a complete load. I think if the cattle are supposed to have their bovine butts chock-a-block against the slats for the whole length of the real car, you would need to have to completely fill the model to get the right look. There must be loading diagrams someplace that show how cattle are to be loaded. They did them for everything else from mill stones to steam tractors. Has anyone ever actually modeled a full cattle load correctly, and if so, what was the effect?

As for loaded and unloaded cars, I wonder if you could load the car with some animals on one side, but put in some sort of baffle or curtain on the other (safely back from the slats). Then the cars would appear loaded from one side, and empty from the other. At the start of of an operating session, they could be turned for the appropriate loads/empties direction.

Kind regards,


Garth G. G5roff

Anthony Thompson wrote:

Garth G. Groff wrote:

Just a "few lead cows" won't quite work. Cattle had to be packed tightly in stock cars so they couldn't fall over. If they did, they were usually fatally trampled . . .
But the only goal is to LOOK full. As is readily demonstrated with any stock car model, visibility is pretty darn restricted. If you want a loaded car, make it LOOK full. Richard Hendrickson's use of rough foam approximations of livestock works because you can't really discern what's in there. So I'd say, put a suitable weight in the car center, add some stock at the outside if you want, and you're done.
Personally, I don't put stock in the cars because I don't want them ALWAYS loaded, and since one can't see in very well, it's not normally a problem. Same point regarding weight: I just put it on the floor and paint flat black. It's essentially invisible.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

Stockcars were typically shoveled out and then steam cleaned after use. The
steam caused the paint to peel and the wood to fade. You might consider a
grey for weathered wood with an off-white to represent the lime that was
used for a disenfectant, but I concur on the flat black as far less visible.

And Mike if you are really interested, they raise cattle in Florida, head
inland and look down, be careful where you walk. I don't think the color of
manure has changed through the years. It is affected by what the cattle are
eating. But think a green brown if fresh, or a grey brown if dried. Cow
chips are still used in throwing contests. They hold one every year at the
Iowa State Fair, the ladies do pretty good, the TV celebrities less so. But
they have to import the chips from elsewhere, Iowa gets to much rain and we
don't produce good solid cow chips.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

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Spen Kellogg <spenkell@...>
 

Garth G. Groff wrote:
As for loaded and unloaded cars, I wonder if you could load the car with some animals on one side, but put in some sort of baffle or curtain on the other (safely back from the slats). Then the cars would appear loaded from one side, and empty from the other. At the start of of an operating session, they could be turned for the appropriate loads/empties direction.
Except I think the most striking feature of an empty stock car is being able to see through to the other side.

Regards, Spen Kellogg


Spen Kellogg <spenkell@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:
Flat black? Have you studied the...uh....floor colors of these cars? Wouldn't you be better off coming up with a...uh...chip color [ somewhat akin to "buffalo chips" that were used supposedly long ago in the west for camp fires ] from...uh...cattle to compare to? The question would depend, I suppose, on the type of cattle. Hereford Brown perhaps? Angus Dark Brown or maybe Long Horn Greenish Brown? Obviously, I'm not much on cattle but might not the color of "chips" depend upon the food source? I cannot imagine how one might come up with the "correct" color without a "chip" to match. Hmmm. Wonder where one might obtain such "chips" from the steam era?
Mike,

Haven't you modeled those chips on the federal grazing land alongside your track work climbing up and over Sherman Hill? <VBG> What color are those "chips?"

Regards, Spen Kellogg


Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

I use a thin layer of lead sheet on the floor, painted black like the floor. The lighting is rarely good enough to notice the floor inside a stock car and besides my eyes aren't small enough to see through the slats.

Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Jerry Dziedzic
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Douglas Harding" <dharding@...> wrote:

Stockcars were typically shoveled out and then steam cleaned after
use. The
steam caused the paint to peel and the wood to fade. You might
consider a
grey for weathered wood with an off-white to represent the lime that
was
used for a disenfectant, but I concur on the flat black as far less
visible.

FWIW, I have begun shooting the interior of my stock cars with a medium
gray, weights and all. You'd be surprised how subtle the effect is; in
my opinion, gives the sides more visual "pop" than otherwise.

Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ


Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

I like what Tony said. It should look full, but with some degree of ambiguity. If the load clearly looks like animals, then it will look wrong for half of the car's miles and when it's in the origin yard waiting for distribution.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478