I was talking to Lloyd on the phone yesterday and called him an Icon. I
think by his (first) post to this group must would agree. Thanks for
joining in Lloyd.
Clark Propst

Lloyd -

Fascinating information! From what I know (and can say) about the
process used to make furfural, it is also made from rice hulls in the
Gulf Coast area. The hulls are ground up, digested to remove the
furfural, and then de-watered. The process generates a lot of solid
waste in the form of a coarse powder that is then used for fuel on-
site. The spent hulls are high in non-combustable solids.

I suspect what you saw being blown into the cars and to the nearby
powerplant was the waste material after the furfural had been
extracted from the cobs.

Very interesting - would love to see photos of the cars!

A.T. Kott


--- In STMFC@..., "lloyd keyser" <lloydkeyser@...> wrote:

Having been a resident of Cedar Rapids until 1959 the Quaker Oats

Co.

received corn cobs in old single sheath C&NW box cars from huge
piles: one on the east side of Cedar Rapids, one at Belle Plaine,

IA

and another at Tama IA plus other locations. Cobs were unloaded at
the plant about 10 cars a day and processed into the product called
furfural. This powder was blown in a pipe elevated over the C&NW,

RI

and IC yards to a side track opposite the IC turntable on a truss
structure similar to a conveyor belt. The pipe droped down to a

sheet

metal building and also continued on into the C st power plant. The
sheet metal building on the IC track had a small loading dock. The
steel pipe entered the roof of the building and then was connected

to

a flexible pipe terminating on a roughly 2' by 3' panel. On the
opposite side of the panel the pipe split into two short pipes

turned

90 degrees to the plate. The referenced IC modified hopper had a
split door near the roof at the center of the car on each side. The
door on the loading side was opened and the plate was secured to

the

car opening and the powder blown in from Quaker Oaks filling both
ends simultaniously. I never saw more than one car being loaded at

a

time. occasionally an IC single sheath car would be loaded. Also

the

powder was blown into the power plant and pulverized with the

boiler

coal and burned. I do not know what determined when it was to be
burned. Lack of cars, excess production a possibly. There were no
storage or surge tanks. I have a shot taken from the Quaker Oats
building looking down to the loader on one of the days a box car

was

being loaded. I also remember the covered hoppers but being in High
School took few pictures. I have a diagram sheet showing some
details. The coal hopper doors were removed and replaced with steel
sheet containing small discharge doors. As many things we all wish

we

had taken more. I hope someone can come up with a photo so the car
can be modeled. A friend in Chicago recalls seeing the company
builders photo's but three trips to the archives did not turn up

the

photo's. An add in the IC magizine also turned up nothing. Lloyd
Keyser

Having been a resident of Cedar Rapids until 1959 the Quaker Oats Co.
received corn cobs in old single sheath C&NW box cars from huge
piles: one on the east side of Cedar Rapids, one at Belle Plaine, IA
and another at Tama IA plus other locations. Cobs were unloaded at
the plant about 10 cars a day and processed into the product called
furfural. This powder was blown in a pipe elevated over the C&NW, RI
and IC yards to a side track opposite the IC turntable on a truss
structure similar to a conveyor belt. The pipe droped down to a sheet
metal building and also continued on into the C st power plant. The
sheet metal building on the IC track had a small loading dock. The
steel pipe entered the roof of the building and then was connected to
a flexible pipe terminating on a roughly 2' by 3' panel. On the
opposite side of the panel the pipe split into two short pipes turned
90 degrees to the plate. The referenced IC modified hopper had a
split door near the roof at the center of the car on each side. The
door on the loading side was opened and the plate was secured to the
car opening and the powder blown in from Quaker Oaks filling both
ends simultaniously. I never saw more than one car being loaded at a
time. occasionally an IC single sheath car would be loaded. Also the
powder was blown into the power plant and pulverized with the boiler
coal and burned. I do not know what determined when it was to be
burned. Lack of cars, excess production a possibly. There were no
storage or surge tanks. I have a shot taken from the Quaker Oats
building looking down to the loader on one of the days a box car was
being loaded. I also remember the covered hoppers but being in High
School took few pictures. I have a diagram sheet showing some
details. The coal hopper doors were removed and replaced with steel
sheet containing small discharge doors. As many things we all wish we
had taken more. I hope someone can come up with a photo so the car
can be modeled. A friend in Chicago recalls seeing the company
builders photo's but three trips to the archives did not turn up the
photo's. An add in the IC magizine also turned up nothing. Lloyd
Keyser



--- In STMFC@..., "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:

The 1/53 ORER says IC 81750-81752 were class LO, height to eaves

12'2",

height to running board 13'4", capacity 3470 cu ft. Open triple

hoppers

in series 81000-81744 were 10'9" to eaves, 2778 cu ft. Shorter

covered

hoppers (29'3" IL, 35'3" OL) in various series between 79000-79981

were

12'2"-12'8" to eaves, 12'10"-13' to running board, 1958 cu ft.
Composite boxcars (8'6" IH) in series 10000-13958 were 12'9" to

eaves,

13'2" to running board; steel boxcars (10'6" IH) in series 27000-

27499

ran 14'5" to eaves, 15' to running board.

So the "furfural" cars were extended a little over the open triples
they came from, but not hugely. They were the height of a cement

hopper

or an older "low" composite box, not of a postwar steel boxcar. The
extra capacity for the light lading was obtained via extra length

not

extra height: I speculate this may have driven the decision to roof
triple hoppers not twins. Interesting beasts: I'd love to see a

picture!

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@..., "mcindoefalls" <mcindoefalls@> wrote:

According to a Wiki article, sugar cane bagasse and wheat chaff

can

also be used to make furfural. Along with corn cobs, these are
relatively light density loads, like wood chips. Did these IC cars
have very tall side extensions?

Walt Lankenau

The 1/53 ORER says IC 81750-81752 were class LO, height to eaves 12'2",
height to running board 13'4", capacity 3470 cu ft. Open triple hoppers
in series 81000-81744 were 10'9" to eaves, 2778 cu ft. Shorter covered
hoppers (29'3" IL, 35'3" OL) in various series between 79000-79981 were
12'2"-12'8" to eaves, 12'10"-13' to running board, 1958 cu ft.
Composite boxcars (8'6" IH) in series 10000-13958 were 12'9" to eaves,
13'2" to running board; steel boxcars (10'6" IH) in series 27000-27499
ran 14'5" to eaves, 15' to running board.

So the "furfural" cars were extended a little over the open triples
they came from, but not hugely. They were the height of a cement hopper
or an older "low" composite box, not of a postwar steel boxcar. The
extra capacity for the light lading was obtained via extra length not
extra height: I speculate this may have driven the decision to roof
triple hoppers not twins. Interesting beasts: I'd love to see a picture!

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

http://www.furan.com/furfural_historical_overview.html - the Quaker Oats
feedstock for furfural production was (big shock!) oat hulls. Not likely to
matter what was used from a freight car perspective, as it would all have
been relatively low density.

Dave Smith

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 1:00 PM, proto48er <atkott@...> wrote:

Mark -

Furfural (furanal or furan aldehyde) is a liquid product extracted from
corn cobs. What was in the covered hoppers was the corn cobs
themselves, not the liquid furfural. These were ground up by Quaker
Oats and the furanal was extracted from the mix.

<http://www.davinci-center.org>

proto48er <atkott@...> wrote:

>>The cars probably looked like "roofed hoppers"

(type HTR) and not true covered hoppers (LO).

>>Just guessing - my ORER's are at home!
>>A.T. Kott


Hi A.T.,

I'm having a devil of a time tracking these cars down. The furfural cars are showing up in both the 1951 and 1954 IC freight car diagram books, but they're listed as originally being cars 713000-713749, built in 1929. The only cars listed as having had those numbers at one time are three bay offset side hoppers 81000-81744.

Now I "know" that no offset side triples were made in 1929. I also do know that the IC stretched some of their offset side twins into offset side triples in the 1940s and 1950s (there's on in the museum in Monticello; you can see the splices!). No car diagram for any of these cars references a 1929 build date and a REbuild date. The earliest date that I have for an IC twin offset hopper is 1939.

So what's going on? Were these cars some type of ribbed twin that the IC converted to offset sides, and then later stretched into triples? Or is the IC information bogus?

Ray Breyer




---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

According to a Wiki article, sugar cane bagasse and wheat chaff can
also be used to make furfural. Along with corn cobs, these are
relatively light density loads, like wood chips. Did these IC cars
have very tall side extensions?

Walt Lankenau

Mark -

Furfural (furanal or furan aldehyde) is a liquid product extracted from
corn cobs. What was in the covered hoppers was the corn cobs
themselves, not the liquid furfural. These were ground up by Quaker
Oats and the furanal was extracted from the mix. In those days, in
addition to making furan-based plastics, it was also used for a binder
in green sand castings. The cars probably looked like "roofed hoppers"
(type HTR) and not true covered hoppers (LO). Just guessing - my
ORER's are at home!

A.T. Kott


--- In STMFC@..., "feddersenmark" <feddersenmark@...> wrote:

In 1950 & 1951 the IC converted three triple bay coal hoppers from
series 81000-81744 to covered hoppers numbered 81750-81752 for

shipment

of furfural (in this case, finely ground corn cobs probably used for
making plastics). The diagram sheet for these cars shows about a two
foot extension added to the sides and tapered steel roof without
hatches. A side door about 2'high x 3'wide was located near the top
center of the side for loading. The cars were marked for loading at
Quaker Oats Co. Cedar Rapids, IA. Supposedly, there is a builders

type

photo of these cars out there somewhere. Does anyone know of a source
for this or other photos of these cars? Needed for modeling and
decals. Thank you Mark

In 1950 & 1951 the IC converted three triple bay coal hoppers from
series 81000-81744 to covered hoppers numbered 81750-81752 for shipment
of furfural (in this case, finely ground corn cobs probably used for
making plastics). The diagram sheet for these cars shows about a two
foot extension added to the sides and tapered steel roof without
hatches. A side door about 2'high x 3'wide was located near the top
center of the side for loading. The cars were marked for loading at
Quaker Oats Co. Cedar Rapids, IA. Supposedly, there is a builders type
photo of these cars out there somewhere. Does anyone know of a source
for this or other photos of these cars? Needed for modeling and
decals. Thank you Mark