Perishable LCL?


SUVCWORR@...
 

In a message dated 2/14/2008 9:01:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Jeff.A.Aley@intel.com writes:

I'm willing to extend my question to include George's
question about meat. I see no need to be quite so restrictive on the
topic.




I checked the Pennsylvania Railroad freight trains schedule, consist and
make-up for 1952. All LCL trains include the instruction "cars requiring icing
or heaters are not to be moved in this train." So it would appear that at
least the PRR did not move produce or meat in LCL trains.

Rich Orr



**************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy
Awards. Go to AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)


Aley, Jeff A
 

Was there such a thing as perishable LCL (e.g. in reefers)? Suppose the
local wholesale grocer didn't need an entire carload of cantaloupes.
Would less-than-carload lots come in by truck?



Regards,



-Jeff


Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@...>
 

In the freight houses I worked in or around were not equipped to handle Perishable.
I worked in a produce house that served these small shops and we received carloads and sent out less than a truck load to these small stores. I think any wholesale warehouse would be able to handle carloads and sell to the small stores as the produce house I worked in did. In fact we were a wholesale produce house.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast.net
Boca Raton FL 33434
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left.

On Feb 14, 2008, at 6:47 PM, Aley, Jeff A wrote:

Was there such a thing as perishable LCL (e.g. in reefers)? Suppose the
local wholesale grocer didn't need an entire carload of cantaloupes.
Would less-than-carload lots come in by truck?



Regards,



-Jeff









Yahoo! Groups Links



Aley, Jeff A
 

Larry,



Thanks for the insight. Wow, that means that the wholesale
grocer must get a LOT of cars since fruits and vegetables are
perishable. If we assume that green vegetables can last up to a week at
the warehouse, then each week, you have to have one carload of each kind
of vegetable: a car of lettuce, a car of bananas, a car of spinach, a
car of cantaloupes, a car of strawberries, a car of celery, a car of
broccoli, etc, etc...

No wonder people ate so many canned vegetables back then!



Regards,



-Jeff





________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Larry Jackman
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:36 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Perishable LCL?



In the freight houses I worked in or around were not equipped to
handle Perishable.
I worked in a produce house that served these small shops and we
received carloads and sent out less than a truck load to these small
stores. I think any wholesale warehouse would be able to handle
carloads and sell to the small stores as the produce house I worked
in did. In fact we were a wholesale produce house.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast.net <mailto:ljack70117%40comcast.net>
Boca Raton FL 33434
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left.

On Feb 14, 2008, at 6:47 PM, Aley, Jeff A wrote:

Was there such a thing as perishable LCL (e.g. in reefers)?
Suppose the
local wholesale grocer didn't need an entire carload of cantaloupes.
Would less-than-carload lots come in by truck?



Regards,



-Jeff










Yahoo! Groups Links



Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Jeff Aley wrote:
Thanks for the insight. Wow, that means that the wholesale grocer must get a LOT of cars since fruits and vegetables are perishable. If we assume that green vegetables can last up to a week at the warehouse, then each week, you have to have one carload of each kind of vegetable: a car of lettuce, a car of bananas, a car of spinach, a car of cantaloupes, a car of strawberries, a car of celery, a car of broccoli, etc, etc...
Well, kind of. Notice that not all these were harvested at the same time.
BTW my knowledge of PFE operations confirms what Larry Jackman said: there was no perishable LCL beyond the operation of wholesale grocers.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Aley, Jeff A
 

Tony,



Noted. I now realize how spoiled we are nowadays. We can
get a huge variety of fresh produce, year 'round at the local grocery
store. I suspect we're even luckier here in California, since we're
closer to the producer (whether that be CA, Mexico, or China).



Regards,



-Jeff





________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:40 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Perishable LCL?



Jeff Aley wrote:
Thanks for the insight. Wow, that means that the
wholesale grocer must get a LOT of cars since fruits and vegetables
are perishable. If we assume that green vegetables can last up to a
week at the warehouse, then each week, you have to have one carload of
each kind of vegetable: a car of lettuce, a car of bananas, a car of
spinach, a car of cantaloupes, a car of strawberries, a car of celery,
a car of broccoli, etc, etc...
Well, kind of. Notice that not all these were harvested at the
same time.
BTW my knowledge of PFE operations confirms what Larry Jackman
said: there was no perishable LCL beyond the operation of wholesale
grocers.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history


ATSF1226
 

Wasn't Meat company reefers handled as LCL traffic in smaller towns?
Seems like I have seen something to this effect in earlier messages.

George A. Walls


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Jeff Aley wrote:
Thanks for the insight. Wow, that means that the
wholesale grocer must get a LOT of cars since fruits and
vegetables
are perishable. If we assume that green vegetables can last up
to a
week at the warehouse, then each week, you have to have one
carload of
each kind of vegetable: a car of lettuce, a car of bananas, a car
of
spinach, a car of cantaloupes, a car of strawberries, a car of
celery,
a car of broccoli, etc, etc...
Well, kind of. Notice that not all these were harvested at
the
same time.
BTW my knowledge of PFE operations confirms what Larry
Jackman
said: there was no perishable LCL beyond the operation of wholesale
grocers.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Richard Townsend
 

I think the way it worked (and maybe still does, but without the railroads being involved) is that various dealers would get carlot shipments of various fruits and vegetables.? There would be several dealers located at the same area, such as the Wazee Market on the D&RGW?in Denver.? Samples would be put on display.? Buyers would come to the market?from restaurants, supermarkets, etc. and negotiate for hiowever much of the various items they wanted, then take them with them or have them delivered.? Each dealer might not have everything, and and might not have the same things from day to day.? It depended on what kinds of deals they could get and what they thought the demand would be.?


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Aley, Jeff A <Jeff.A.Aley@intel.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 5:26 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Perishable LCL?






Larry,

Thanks for the insight. Wow, that means that the wholesale
grocer must get a LOT of cars since fruits and vegetables are
perishable. If we assume that green vegetables can last up to a week at
the warehouse, then each week, you have to have one carload of each kind
of vegetable: a car of lettuce, a car of bananas, a car of spinach, a
car of cantaloupes, a car of strawberries, a car of celery, a car of
broccoli, etc, etc...

No wonder people ate so many canned vegetables back then!

Regards,

-Jeff

________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Larry Jackman
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:36 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Perishable LCL?

In the freight houses I worked in or around were not equipped to
handle Perishable.
I worked in a produce house that served these small shops and we
received carloads and sent out less than a truck load to these small
stores. I think any wholesale warehouse would be able to handle
carloads and sell to the small stores as the produce house I worked
in did. In fact we were a wholesale produce house.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast.net <mailto:ljack70117%40comcast.net>
Boca Raton FL 33434
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left.

On Feb 14, 2008, at 6:47 PM, Aley, Jeff A wrote:

Was there such a thing as perishable LCL (e.g. in reefers)?
Suppose the
local wholesale grocer didn't need an entire carload of cantaloupes.
Would less-than-carload lots come in by truck?



Regards,



-Jeff










Yahoo! Groups Links








________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AIM(R) Mail ! - http://webmail.aim.com


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

George A. Walls wrote:
Wasn't Meat company reefers handled as LCL traffic in smaller towns? Seems like I have seen something to this effect in earlier messages.
We're talking perishables, George, not meat.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Aley, Jeff A
 

Tony,



I'm willing to extend my question to include George's
question about meat. I see no need to be quite so restrictive on the
topic.



Regards,



-Jeff





________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:00 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Perishable LCL?



George A. Walls wrote:
Wasn't Meat company reefers handled as LCL traffic in smaller towns?
Seems like I have seen something to this effect in earlier messages.
We're talking perishables, George, not meat.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history


ATSF1226
 

Okay. But somehow I always thought meat was perishables.

Now, was meat handled as LCL or was it like Larry discribed?

George A. Walls


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

George A. Walls wrote:
Wasn't Meat company reefers handled as LCL traffic in smaller
towns?
Seems like I have seen something to this effect in earlier messages.
We're talking perishables, George, not meat.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

I'm willing to extend my question to include George's
question about meat. I see no need to be quite so restrictive on the
topic.<

I don't think meat is defined as a perishable. But then I guess it would depend on the temperature and for how long<G>!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

George A. Walls wrote:
Okay. But somehow I always thought meat was perishables.
Not in the tariff or in the language of the business. But of course meat is "perishable" in its nature.

Now, was meat handled as LCL or was it like Larry discribed?
In the strict sense, only as Larry described, but the meat companies DID have smaller consignments of cut meat to local houses, which they could successively deliver to a series of locations, and thus handled it LIKE the LCL, though not in the sense we usually mean. They were sometimes called "distributor" cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


earlyrail
 




Posted by: "Aley, Jeff A" Jeff.A.Aley@intel.com
<mailto:Jeff.A.Aley@intel.com?Subject=%20Re%3APerishable%20LCL%3F>
jaley95630 <http://profiles.yahoo.com/jaley95630>


Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:47 pm (PST)

Was there such a thing as perishable LCL (e.g. in reefers)? Suppose the
local wholesale grocer didn't need an entire carload of cantaloupes.
Would less-than-carload lots come in by truck?

Regards,

-Jeff

If you consider meat a perishable, then yes.

Meat packers would send out a 'route' car that would be placed on a local and unloaded at each stop. These cars only ran on certain days and you (local butcher shop) ordered your meat in advance. The routw could take up to 3 days to make all stops.
Most started closed to the pcaking centers, but a few went hundreds of miles before beginning local delivery.

I have some schedules from the CGW out of South St Paul

Howard Garner


ATSF1226
 

I added the question about meat because of the area I model (Northern
Arizona)towns were not large enough to support wholesale grocery
dealers. I have been trying to determine how these small towns
recieved meat and which meat company reefers I might see in Santa Fe
trains in the late 30's. I have noted on Sanborn maps produce dealers
but no cold storage facilities.

Thanks,
George A. Walls



Tony,



I'm willing to extend my question to include George's
question about meat. I see no need to be quite so restrictive on
the
topic.



Regards,



-Jeff





________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:00 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Perishable LCL?



George A. Walls wrote:
Wasn't Meat company reefers handled as LCL traffic in smaller
towns?
Seems like I have seen something to this effect in earlier
messages.

We're talking perishables, George, not meat.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@...>
 

How would you handle Bananas? It was my job to handle the Bananas. We worked part time. I was called in to unload them. We got a car about every 6th day. We had three rooms for them one holding, one for ripening and one cutting for selling. When I unloaded a car I put them in the holding room. The cutting room would be about 1/2 full. Each room held a car load. The cutting room would be about 60 degrees. The holding would be at 40 degrees and would be turned up to 60 degrees to start ripening when the cutting room was down to about 1/2. The empty room would be at 40 degrees. I would put the new car load in to the empty room. When the cutting room went empty it would be set on 40 degrees and they would turn the holding room in to the cutting room. When it we about 1/2 empty then would turn the new holding room up to 60 degrees. In the mean time an other car arrived and I had the Joy of unloading it in to the empty room. and so it went. The whole building except the offices was held around 50 degrees They had Lettuces, Peaches Plums, and I do not know all as I was not into the whole building. I bought a 1/2 Bu of Blue plums for myself and I had them in the fridge at home for 2 1/2 weeks. Mmmmm good. Most produce will hold 2 to 3 weeks if the temperature is right. Also keep the humidity up over 60%.
Working there is where I learned how to eat Bananas. Green with the one or two yellow streaks just starting to show. Mmmmm good.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast.net
Boca Raton FL 33434
My parents did not raise
any stupid children. They
sent the ten of us to the
neighbors to play and then
moved. They raised the four
of us that found them.

On Feb 14, 2008, at 8:26 PM, Aley, Jeff A wrote:

Larry,



Thanks for the insight. Wow, that means that the wholesale
grocer must get a LOT of cars since fruits and vegetables are
perishable. If we assume that green vegetables can last up to a week at
the warehouse, then each week, you have to have one carload of each kind
of vegetable: a car of lettuce, a car of bananas, a car of spinach, a
car of cantaloupes, a car of strawberries, a car of celery, a car of
broccoli, etc, etc...

No wonder people ate so many canned vegetables back then!



Regards,



-Jeff





________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Larry Jackman
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:36 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Perishable LCL?



In the freight houses I worked in or around were not equipped to
handle Perishable.
I worked in a produce house that served these small shops and we
received carloads and sent out less than a truck load to these small
stores. I think any wholesale warehouse would be able to handle
carloads and sell to the small stores as the produce house I worked
in did. In fact we were a wholesale produce house.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast.net <mailto:ljack70117%40comcast.net>
Boca Raton FL 33434
I was born with nothing and
I have most of it left.

On Feb 14, 2008, at 6:47 PM, Aley, Jeff A wrote:

Was there such a thing as perishable LCL (e.g. in reefers)?
Suppose the
local wholesale grocer didn't need an entire carload of cantaloupes.
Would less-than-carload lots come in by truck?



Regards,



-Jeff









Yahoo! Groups Links










Yahoo! Groups Links



Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@...>
 

I never saw any on the Un Pac or John Santa Fe. There were a lot of local meat plants and Trucks.


Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast.net
Boca Raton FL 33434
I want to die in my sleep like
my grandfather did, not screaming
like the other people in his car.

On Feb 14, 2008, at 8:50 PM, George A. Walls wrote:

Wasn't Meat company reefers handled as LCL traffic in smaller towns?
Seems like I have seen something to this effect in earlier messages.

George A. Walls


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Jeff Aley wrote:
Thanks for the insight. Wow, that means that the
wholesale grocer must get a LOT of cars since fruits and
vegetables
are perishable. If we assume that green vegetables can last up
to a
week at the warehouse, then each week, you have to have one
carload of
each kind of vegetable: a car of lettuce, a car of bananas, a car
of
spinach, a car of cantaloupes, a car of strawberries, a car of
celery,
a car of broccoli, etc, etc...
Well, kind of. Notice that not all these were harvested at
the
same time.
BTW my knowledge of PFE operations confirms what Larry
Jackman
said: there was no perishable LCL beyond the operation of wholesale
grocers.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




Yahoo! Groups Links



Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@...>
 

One thing to note. The closer you are to grower the poorer your [produce will be. When you ship some thing across the country and pay the freight rates charged you want to get the best price you can. You ship your very best and get top dollar and that leaves the not so good for the locals.
You do not believe me???? Go to the east cost and buy your California produce. You have never seen anything that good in California unless the seller is a local and does not ship any thing.
The same rule applies for imported produce. They ship the very best and keep the second rate for the locals.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast.net
Boca Raton FL 33434
My parents did not raise
any stupid children. They
sent the ten of us to the
neighbors to play and then
moved. They raised the four
of us that found them.

On Feb 14, 2008, at 8:44 PM, Aley, Jeff A wrote:

Tony,



Noted. I now realize how spoiled we are nowadays. We can
get a huge variety of fresh produce, year 'round at the local grocery
store. I suspect we're even luckier here in California, since we're
closer to the producer (whether that be CA, Mexico, or China).



Regards,



-Jeff





________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:40 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Perishable LCL?



Jeff Aley wrote:
Thanks for the insight. Wow, that means that the
wholesale grocer must get a LOT of cars since fruits and vegetables
are perishable. If we assume that green vegetables can last up to a
week at the warehouse, then each week, you have to have one carload of
each kind of vegetable: a car of lettuce, a car of bananas, a car of
spinach, a car of cantaloupes, a car of strawberries, a car of celery,
a car of broccoli, etc, etc...
Well, kind of. Notice that not all these were harvested at the
same time.
BTW my knowledge of PFE operations confirms what Larry Jackman
said: there was no perishable LCL beyond the operation of wholesale
grocers.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history









Yahoo! Groups Links



Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

Jeff (photo attached) I have a photo of a Soo Line reefer being used in LCL
service. This was common in early days, esp on branchlines. Local grocers
got their meat and other prerishables via an LCL reefer. The local would
drop the car next to the depot or a handy road location, the local agent
would open the car, over see the unloading by the local businesses to ensure
someone's meat shipment did not get unloaded by the wrong grocery store,
then the agent would close and seal the car for the next stop. These cars
would work a regular circuit, say once or twice a week.



Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org




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10:28 AM


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Larry Jackman wrote:
You do not believe me???? Go to the east cost and buy your California produce. You have never seen anything that good in California unless the seller is a local and does not ship any thing. The same rule applies for imported produce. They ship the very best and keep the second rate for the locals.
Baloney, Larry. When I moved back to California from Pittsburgh, I couldn't believe how much better the produce was here. Don't forget, the journey isn't especially good for the goods.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history