AUTO BOX RESPONSE


Earl Tuson
 

NYC 56331: This one has me puzzled; the number series popped up as
Lot 633-B, steel automobile boxcars rebuilt in 1935 from Lot 357-B
DS automobile boxcars, which is obviously after the 1929-1930 date
on the wheel reports.
Good eye, Ben. There are actually two trains at the end of the book from 1936, which this car was from, and I failed to note that previously. My apologies.

Earl Tuson


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 17, 2008, at 1:07 PM, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

The appliance that would force the development was the Evans Auto
Loader, which required a taller car to accomodate both the extra
automobiles when loaded and to stow the loader when empty or when the
car was used to handle other freight. Widespread use of these taller
automobile cars would not occur until 1934 with the introduction of
the PRR Class X31 automobile boxcars. The older automobile boxcars
were still around, but they would be bumped from finished automobile
service, with some rebuilt into general service boxcars such as the
PRR Class X28A or N&W Class BPA.
All true as far as it goes, but Ben's perspective here is that of a
historian and modeler whose primary interest is eastern RRs. Ten foot
high automobile cars, many of the 50'6" in length, were common in the
1920s on many western railroads (ATSF, SP, UP, GN, NP, WP) and some
east-of-the-Rockies lines like the MoPac and CB&Q, though rare on RRs
east of the Mississippi owing to their limited clearances. Such cars
were easily converted for use with Evans racks, and many were so
converted. By contrast, eastern RRs had to build new, taller cars like
the PRR X31s to accommodate Evans racks.

Richard Hendrickson


Jeff English
 

The car number cited by Earl, NYC 56331, must be in error since there
were no 56000-series numbers assigned before the Lot 633-B cars Ben
cites below.

Earl, could it be other than 56?

Jeff English
Troy, New York

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:
<snip>

NYC 56331: This one has me puzzled; the number series popped up as
Lot 633-B, steel automobile boxcars rebuilt in 1935 from Lot 357-B
DS automobile boxcars, which is obviously after the 1929-1930 date
on the wheel reports.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-633.jpg
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-56000.jpg

These are distinctively New York Central cars, and lasted well into
the 1960s; unfortunately, there are no kits available for them.


Ben Hom


water.kresse@...
 

Ben,

The same applies to Tony's response. I had a 1937 CBC that had references back to December 1928 and then later showed a Plate B clearance diagram. I was not careful about what had transpired in the book mixing old with new info.

When did that new plate accually take affect?

Al

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
Al Kresse wrote:
"By 1928 the standard AAR auto-boxes had changed the clearance
envelope and auto-boxes were starting to get bigger . . . but the
smaller ones would still be around."

Al, do you have a reference to back that statement? Automobile
boxcars c. 1928 were still relatively small cars; the PRR Class X28
were 9 ft 3 in IH cars. The New York Central cars in Earl's post that
were built in 1929 were indeed taller cars at 10 ft IH but lacked
Evans auto loaders.

The appliance that would force the development was the Evans Auto
Loader, which required a taller car to accomodate both the extra
automobiles when loaded and to stow the loader when empty or when the
car was used to handle other freight. Widespread use of these taller
automobile cars would not occur until 1934 with the introduction of
the PRR Class X31 automobile boxcars. The older automobile boxcars
were still around, but they would be bumped from finished automobile
service, with some rebuilt into general service boxcars such as the
PRR Class X28A or N&W Class BPA.

Ben Hom


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Al Kresse wrote:
"By 1928 the standard AAR auto-boxes had changed the clearance
envelope and auto-boxes were starting to get bigger . . . but the
smaller ones would still be around."

Al, do you have a reference to back that statement? Automobile
boxcars c. 1928 were still relatively small cars; the PRR Class X28
were 9 ft 3 in IH cars. The New York Central cars in Earl's post that
were built in 1929 were indeed taller cars at 10 ft IH but lacked
Evans auto loaders.

The appliance that would force the development was the Evans Auto
Loader, which required a taller car to accomodate both the extra
automobiles when loaded and to stow the loader when empty or when the
car was used to handle other freight. Widespread use of these taller
automobile cars would not occur until 1934 with the introduction of
the PRR Class X31 automobile boxcars. The older automobile boxcars
were still around, but they would be bumped from finished automobile
service, with some rebuilt into general service boxcars such as the
PRR Class X28A or N&W Class BPA.


Ben Hom


water.kresse@...
 

Tony,

You are correct. I was looking at a 1937 CBC and they (AAR) were making historical references to post-USRA structural problems. You are also correct that I wasn't able to find a standard double-sheathed auto-box that matched the C&O 82000 and HV 34000 series 40' 6" auto boxes blt in 1924-25.

Al

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Tony Thompson <thompsonmarytony@...>
Thanks for the insite. By 1928 the standard AAR auto-boxes had
changed the clearance envelop and auto-boxes were starting to get
bigger . . . but the smaller ones would still be around.
You mean, of course, the ARA, since the AAR came along in 1934;
and there really wasn't a "standard" ARA automobile car that I know of.
The AAR adopted such a standard in 1942.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tony Thompson
 

Thanks for the insite. By 1928 the standard AAR auto-boxes had changed the clearance envelop and auto-boxes were starting to get bigger . . . but the smaller ones would still be around.
You mean, of course, the ARA, since the AAR came along in 1934; and there really wasn't a "standard" ARA automobile car that I know of. The AAR adopted such a standard in 1942.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


water.kresse@...
 

Earl,

Thanks for the insite. By 1928 the standard AAR auto-boxes had changed the clearance envelop and auto-boxes were starting to get bigger . . . but the smaller ones would still be around.

Al

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benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

These illustrate some of the pre-Evans auto loader era automobile
cars of the NYCS:

CCC&StL 91672 - Lot 585-B, steel, built 1929:
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-585.jpg

MC 89468 - Lot 590-B, steel, built 1929:
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-590.jpg

NYC 55282, NYC 55847 - Lot 610-B, steel, built 1930:
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-610.jpg
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-55999.jpg

NYC 56331: This one has me puzzled; the number series popped up as
Lot 633-B, steel automobile boxcars rebuilt in 1935 from Lot 357-B
DS automobile boxcars, which is obviously after the 1929-1930 date
on the wheel reports.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-633.jpg
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-56000.jpg

These are distinctively New York Central cars, and lasted well into
the 1960s; unfortunately, there are no kits available for them.


Ben Hom


Earl Tuson
 

"Is there a resourse for understanding how they shipped Ford Model T
and Chevy 490s in auto-boxes out of Detroit/Flint/Pontiac Michigan
area back in the early-1920s?��. . . . . descriptions of number of
cars in 36, 40 and 50 foot double-door cars, distribution by various
lines, and photos would be great.��Also, when did they start to
regularily use end-doors?"
Again, this does not answer your question directly, either, but here are the cars hauling automobile or auto parts traffic in a 1929-30 B&M Wheel Report:

Marks No. Desg From To IL IW IH Cuft Tons Lading
CGW 80284 XA 80000 80398 40.06 9 10 3746 40 Auto Bodies
CNW 35168 XA 34900 36898 40.06 9.02 10 3668 40 Auto Bodies
CCC&StL 91672 XAF 91000 91999 40.06 8.09 10 3544 55 Autos
MC 89468 XA 89000 89999 40.06 9.02 10 3713 55 Autos
NYC 55282 XA 54000 55999 40.06 9.02 10 3713 55 Autos
NYC 55847 XA 54000 55999 40.06 9.02 10 3713 55 Autos
NYC 56331 XAR 56000 56399 40.06 9.03 10 3719 40 Autos

The two loads of auto bodies, unlike all the automobiles, were waybilled <to> Detroit.

Earl Tuson