6 Dome wine tank cars


John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
wrote:

John, I have an undec PSC model. It's a relatively accurate and well
detailed model of a GATC car. But not, please note, of the AC&F cars
operated by SHPX and NATX, which had quite different underframes and
the safety vents on top of the domes, rather than on elbows on the
sides of the domes (some GATC cars also had larger domes with the
safeties on top). Note, too, that those were frangible disk safety
vents, NOT the spring-loaded safety valves required on ICC-103 and
ICC-104 cars for the shipment of regulatory commodities.
Thanks for the info Richard. It will come in handy should one of
these cars turn up again and happen to fall into my hands!

John Hile


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 22, 2008, at 1:40 PM, John Hile wrote:

At some point, Precision Scale did a brass 6-dome wine car. I have
notes that there were three schemes...Roma, Madera. R. Martini. Model
#17524-? I saw one of these on eBay a few years ago, but don't recall
the underframe type, reporting marks, etc. IIRC the dome vents came
off the side of each dome...similar to the vent on Precision's Van
Dyke tank. Anyone have any info on these?
John, I have an undec PSC model. It's a relatively accurate and well
detailed model of a GATC car. But not, please note, of the AC&F cars
operated by SHPX and NATX, which had quite different underframes and
the safety vents on top of the domes, rather than on elbows on the
sides of the domes (some GATC cars also had larger domes with the
safeties on top). Note, too, that those were frangible disk safety
vents, NOT the spring-loaded safety valves required on ICC-103 and
ICC-104 cars for the shipment of regulatory commodities.

Richard Hendrickson


Eddie Stavleu <eddiestavleu@...>
 

Thank you Rod,.

The Roma car will be a good help

Eddie.


A little over a year ago this was discussed IIRC on this group.
Someone posted two photos which I saved for future personal
reference. I just uploaded to the files section.

Rod

John Hile wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Eddie Stavleu" <eddiestavleu@...> wrote:
>> John,
>>
>> Do you photos and if so will you share them please
>>
>> Eddie.
>>
>
> Eddie,
>
> I do not have any photos of the Precision Scale cars.
>
> Somewhere out there (on the web) is a b&w photo of GATX 417, a
> 6-compartment Victor California Wines, California Grape Products Co.
> car. It is dark (black?) with light (white?) lettering.
> Unfortunately, I did not bookmark or otherwise record its location.
> Someone else on the list may know where to find it.
>
> -John Hile


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rod Miller wrote:
A little over a year ago this was discussed IIRC on this group. Someone posted two photos which I saved for future personal reference. I just uploaded to the files section.
Immediately obvious is the length to diameter ratio of these tanks, VERY different from the ROCO "inflatable."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Rod Miller
 

A little over a year ago this was discussed IIRC on this group.
Someone posted two photos which I saved for future personal
reference. I just uploaded to the files section.

Rod

John Hile wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Eddie Stavleu" <eddiestavleu@...> wrote:
John,

Do you photos and if so will you share them please

Eddie.
Eddie,
I do not have any photos of the Precision Scale cars.
Somewhere out there (on the web) is a b&w photo of GATX 417, a
6-compartment Victor California Wines, California Grape Products Co.
car. It is dark (black?) with light (white?) lettering. Unfortunately, I did not bookmark or otherwise record its location. Someone else on the list may know where to find it.
-John Hile


John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Eddie Stavleu" <eddiestavleu@...> wrote:

John,

Do you photos and if so will you share them please

Eddie.
Eddie,

I do not have any photos of the Precision Scale cars.

Somewhere out there (on the web) is a b&w photo of GATX 417, a
6-compartment Victor California Wines, California Grape Products Co.
car. It is dark (black?) with light (white?) lettering.
Unfortunately, I did not bookmark or otherwise record its location.
Someone else on the list may know where to find it.

-John Hile


Eddie Stavleu <eddiestavleu@...>
 

John,

Do you photos and if so will you share them please

Eddie.



--- In STMFC@..., "John Hile" <john66h@...> wrote:
>
> At some point, Precision Scale did a brass 6-dome wine car. I have
> notes that there were three schemes...Roma, Madera. R. Martini. Model
> #17524-? I saw one of these on eBay a few years ago, but don't recall
> the underframe type, reporting marks, etc. IIRC the dome vents came
> off the side of each dome...similar to the vent on Precision's Van
> Dyke tank. Anyone have any info on these?
>
> John Hile
> Blacksburg, VA
>
I have one of each (Roma, Madera, Martini), plus an AHM I painted and used Champ decals
for another Roma.

The PSC Roma car is GATX 933, the Madera and Martini are SHPX 6611 and 6614
respectively.

Brian Ehni


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
If some of those are reefers, I hope you're planning on cutting down the dimensions before you assemble them, as the SS reefers were WAY oversize, especially in height (but length, too, IIRC). My experience (now many years ago) is that you could usually keep the lettering on the sides approximately in the right location by trimming them very carefully to fit a car body that was appropriately reduced to scale size.
Yes, several Silver Streak kits are oversize. In addition to the reefers, the SP caboose, otherwise a pretty accurate model, is almost 10% oversize.
Could they have been using a scale rule for OO by mistake? <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 22, 2008, at 1:06 PM, Malcolm Laughlin wrote:

Now to find time to finish my eight Silver Streak cars - real wood !!
If some of those are reefers, I hope you're planning on cutting down
the dimensions before you assemble them, as the SS reefers were WAY
oversize, especially in height (but length, too, IIRC). My experience
(now many years ago) is that you could usually keep the lettering on
the sides approximately in the right location by trimming them very
carefully to fit a car body that was appropriately reduced to scale
size.

Richard Hendrickson


Jim Williams <wwww5960@...>
 

Interesting...I have the Roma car and it's GATX 935 so they did at least a couple of numbers. ............Best Jim Williams

----- Original Message ----
From: brianehni <behni@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 7:03:21 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 6 Dome wine tank cars

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "John Hile" <john66h@... > wrote:

At some point, Precision Scale did a brass 6-dome wine car. I have
notes that there were three schemes...Roma, Madera. R. Martini. Model
#17524-? I saw one of these on eBay a few years ago, but don't recall
the underframe type, reporting marks, etc. IIRC the dome vents came
off the side of each dome...similar to the vent on Precision's Van
Dyke tank. Anyone have any info on these?

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA
I have one of each (Roma, Madera, Martini), plus an AHM I painted and used Champ decals
for another Roma.

The PSC Roma car is GATX 933, the Madera and Martini are SHPX 6611 and 6614
respectively.

Brian Ehni





____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping


brianehni <behni@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "John Hile" <john66h@...> wrote:

At some point, Precision Scale did a brass 6-dome wine car. I have
notes that there were three schemes...Roma, Madera. R. Martini. Model
#17524-? I saw one of these on eBay a few years ago, but don't recall
the underframe type, reporting marks, etc. IIRC the dome vents came
off the side of each dome...similar to the vent on Precision's Van
Dyke tank. Anyone have any info on these?

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA
I have one of each (Roma, Madera, Martini), plus an AHM I painted and used Champ decals
for another Roma.

The PSC Roma car is GATX 933, the Madera and Martini are SHPX 6611 and 6614
respectively.

Brian Ehni


John Hile <john66h@...>
 

At some point, Precision Scale did a brass 6-dome wine car. I have
notes that there were three schemes...Roma, Madera. R. Martini. Model
#17524-? I saw one of these on eBay a few years ago, but don't recall
the underframe type, reporting marks, etc. IIRC the dome vents came
off the side of each dome...similar to the vent on Precision's Van
Dyke tank. Anyone have any info on these?

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

Posted by: "Anthony Thompson" Jon, you are right that some aspects of the Thomas cars are crude--grab irons, underframe details--but the TANKS and the DOMES are quite good proportions. I have re-detailed several of them as a result, because there is no straightforward alternative. $40+ for one!!
--------

Thnks for that info. I'm still running gone of those cars that I built in 1951. Nice to hear the proportions are ok. The details may have been crude, but the material was very prototypical - all metal.

That reminds me of another oldie of which I run several - the Varney steel box cars and reefers. I've wanted to resurrect a few more, but the plastic roof walks are warped upward at the ends and look pretty bad. Can anyone tell me what is a good replacement. The problem with some possibilities of new parts is thatthey might look so good that the crudenes of the rest of the car becomes too obvious.

Now to find time to finish my eight Silver Streak cars - real wood !!



Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

One on ebay right now. $30 start. Item number: 110225424273.

Have fun<VBG>!


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
All true, and wine tank cars were actually about 6,000 gals. capacity, so the AHM model is close to twice the size of its intended prototype. Calling it a "stand-in" is excessively kind.
I've often said that the Roco folks evidently dimensioned out the 6000-gallon tank and then inflated it with air pressure to make it fit a 40-foot underframe. Both tank and domes have that "blown up" look when you compare to a real 6-dome car.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Jon Miller wrote:
I was a metal kit for one (Thomas?) in a couple of paint schemes. The kit had a smaller tank (6K?) but also many things wrong with it. They show up on ebay occasionally and usually get a good price (40-50 range).
Jon, you are right that some aspects of the Thomas cars are crude--grab irons, underframe details--but the TANKS and the DOMES are quite good proportions. I have re-detailed several of them as a result, because there is no straightforward alternative. I have snapped them up at railroadiana shows for just this reason . . . but sure never paid $40+ for one!!

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 22, 2008, at 6:39 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:

I think you are going to discover that the tank is too large, and
maybe
the expansion domes are as well. IIRC, AHM's original tank car was a
knock-off of the oversized Athearn 3-dome tank car. Later the frame
and
bottom sheet tooling were reused to make more oversized "models" of
certain other tank cars, including the 6-dome wine cars. Back in those
days, almost nobody noticed or cared. The AHM car should dimension out
to around 11,000 U.S. gallons, which is probably way too large for the
real wine cars (likely around 8,000 U.S. gallons).
All true, and wine tank cars were actually about 6,000 gals. capacity,
so the AHM model is close to twice the size of its intended prototype.
Calling it a "stand-in" is excessively kind.

Richard Hendrickson


Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

I was a metal kit for one (Thomas?) in a couple of paint schemes. The kit had a smaller tank (6K?) but also many things wrong with it. They show up on ebay occasionally and usually get a good price (40-50 range).

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Thanks Garth, but I'm not the one looking at modeling these cars - I just posted out of curiousity.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Garth G. Groff
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: 6 Dome wine tank cars


Kurt,

I think you are going to discover that the tank is too large, and maybe
the expansion domes are as well. IIRC, AHM's original tank car was a
knock-off of the oversized Athearn 3-dome tank car. Later the frame and
bottom sheet tooling were reused to make more oversized "models" of
certain other tank cars, including the 6-dome wine cars. Back in those
days, almost nobody noticed or cared. The AHM car should dimension out
to around 11,000 U.S. gallons, which is probably way too large for the
real wine cars (likely around 8,000 U.S. gallons). If you check Jim
Eager's D&RGW book (you do have this book don't you?), you will find a
photo of the water car you mentioned earlier. I don't have my copy at
had, but Jim usually gives the facts like the capacity in his text. If
you don't have this book, let me know and I will check for you next
week. In short, your car is probably going to be a stand-in, and if you
don't mind, that's fine.

By the way, I seem to recall that this tank fit the Athearn frame and
bottom sheet. Even though it will still be a "stand-in", the Athearn
parts are much better than the AHM, and will have the advantage of
coupler draft gear mounted on the frame instead of "taglo" trucks.

Kind regards,

Garth G. Groff

Kurt Laughlin wrote:
Now I realize these are "train set" cars, but what I've read says that the
biggest problem with them is the fact that they are uninsulated. The AHM
car I got with my set back in '72 or so *is* insulated, so I wonder if that
makes them closer to something?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson

Eddie Stavleu wrote:

I have the HO Roco cars that will do me for these. D&RGW had one as a
water car for MOW
If these are only stand-in or "fun" cars, the Roco ones are fine,
but be aware they are not even close to a prototype.


Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Kurt,

I think you are going to discover that the tank is too large, and maybe the expansion domes are as well. IIRC, AHM's original tank car was a knock-off of the oversized Athearn 3-dome tank car. Later the frame and bottom sheet tooling were reused to make more oversized "models" of certain other tank cars, including the 6-dome wine cars. Back in those days, almost nobody noticed or cared. The AHM car should dimension out to around 11,000 U.S. gallons, which is probably way too large for the real wine cars (likely around 8,000 U.S. gallons). If you check Jim Eager's D&RGW book (you do have this book don't you?), you will find a photo of the water car you mentioned earlier. I don't have my copy at had, but Jim usually gives the facts like the capacity in his text. If you don't have this book, let me know and I will check for you next week. In short, your car is probably going to be a stand-in, and if you don't mind, that's fine.

By the way, I seem to recall that this tank fit the Athearn frame and bottom sheet. Even though it will still be a "stand-in", the Athearn parts are much better than the AHM, and will have the advantage of coupler draft gear mounted on the frame instead of "taglo" trucks.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Kurt Laughlin wrote:

Now I realize these are "train set" cars, but what I've read says that the biggest problem with them is the fact that they are uninsulated. The AHM car I got with my set back in '72 or so *is* insulated, so I wonder if that makes them closer to something?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson

Eddie Stavleu wrote:

I have the HO Roco cars that will do me for these. D&RGW had one as a
water car for MOW
If these are only stand-in or "fun" cars, the Roco ones are fine,
but be aware they are not even close to a prototype.