Cleaning out some more models for potential sales. I have a P2k model for
50' single door, Lot 700B boxcar 176613. The P2k model is listed as
reasonably accurate on Terry Link's website. I haven't been able yet to
locate a picture of one of these cars. The cars were built by DSI in 1941.
are these cars accurate as far as ends and roof. The P2k car has 5/5
Dreadnaught ends, and a Murphy roof. I know DSI used Despatch ends and roofs
in the post war era, however, I am not certain about immediately prewar
Should this lot have 5/5 ends and a Murphy roof. Also P2k modeled it in the
as built roman oval with a black background. The black background was
dropped in 1944 and when reinstated the lettering was switched to Gothic.
How often did the NYC repaint cars? Would it be likely to see a car in the
original paint scheme 16 years later in 1957?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

--- In STMFC@..., "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:
<snip>

Lot 700B boxcar 176613.

<snip>

I haven't been able yet to
locate a picture of one of these cars.

Photos have been offered by:
Howard Ameling - 177063
Bob's Photo - 176920, 176906
W.C. Whittaker - 177270 (published in RMJ 4/98, p.32), 177287

Wayner's "New York Central Cars", p.38 has a company photo of 176893
which was also printed in the "NYC Headlight" Vol.6 No.1, p.19

All of the above are repaints. I have not seen a photo of an as-
built paint job on a car in this Lot.

are these cars accurate as far as ends and roof.
I know DSI used Despatch ends and roofs
in the post war era, however, I am not certain about immediately

prewar

Definitely no Despatch stampings before circa 1954.

Should this lot have 5/5 ends and a Murphy roof.

Yes.

How often did the NYC repaint cars?

Whenever justified.

Would it be likely to see a car in the
original paint scheme 16 years later in 1957?

My guess is: highly unlikely.

Hope this helps -

Jeff English
Troy, New York

On Feb 23, 2008, at 6:21 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

Cleaning out some more models for potential sales. I have a P2k model
for
50' single door, Lot 700B boxcar 176613. The P2k model is listed as
reasonably accurate on Terry Link's website. I haven't been able yet
to
locate a picture of one of these cars. The cars were built by DSI in
1941.
are these cars accurate as far as ends and roof. The P2k car has 5/5
Dreadnaught ends, and a Murphy roof. I know DSI used Despatch ends
and roofs
in the post war era, however, I am not certain about immediately
prewar
Should this lot have 5/5 ends and a Murphy roof. Also P2k modeled it
in the
as built roman oval with a black background. The black background was
dropped in 1944 and when reinstated the lettering was switched to
Gothic.
How often did the NYC repaint cars? Would it be likely to see a car
in the
original paint scheme 16 years later in 1957?

Brian, the P2K model is just about dead-on accurate for the NYC cars as
built. Whether one would have lasted as late as 1957 with original P/L
is another matter. NYC wasn't known for frequently repainting freight
equipment, but sixteen years??? It would certainly have been very
weathered and dirty, at any rate. FWIW, I have a 1959 photo of NYC
177270 recently repainted in Jade Green and black with the big
cigar-band herald; maybe that was the first time it had been repainted.
But then again, maybe not.

Richard Hendrickson

Thank you Richard and Jeff: I'll have to check Bob's stuff out in March.
Hanging onto this one for now.


Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

One followup, Can either of you tell from photos if the wood roofwalk
provided in the kit is correct? Were these replaced with an expanded metal
product later in life?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

On Feb 23, 2008, at 7:20 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

One followup, Can either of you tell from photos if the wood roofwalk
provided in the kit is correct? Were these replaced with an expanded
metal
product later in life?

They came from the builder's with wood running boards, and it's
unlikely that the NYC later replaced them with metal RBs.

Richard Hendrickson

Doors on these 1941 NYC cars were made of three panels; apparently
doors 7' and wider were more durable with four panels (as P2K provides.)
Roof eaves were a bit odd (but what are you gonna do?) NYC placard
boards need to be bigger than the kit's.
It's your call.
Scott Pitzer

To the question from Brian J Carlson, "Would it be likely to see a car
in the original paint scheme 16 years later in 1957?

Jeff English replied, "My guess is: highly unlikely."

Richard Hendrickson replied: "Whether one would have lasted as late as
1957 with original P/L is another matter. NYC wasn't known for
frequently repainting freight equipment, but sixteen years??? It would
certainly have been very weathered and dirty, at any rate."

Brian, Jeff and Richard,

I have observed B&O boxcars that were 12+ plus years after their last
painting and still with their original paint scheme. My humble theory
is that some cars just get "lost" in the system and never return to the
home railroad for many, many years. The cars get re-weight at the
necessary intervals and if the initials and numbers become unreadable
the foreign railroad will re-paint them with available stencils. I have
even observed cars where a carman used chalk to make the numbers more
visible.

I have notes on a B&O Class M-56 , #285265, that I observed in ~1966
that was built in 8-1952 and last repainted at the DuBois Shops in
7-1954. So 12 years has been observed 16 years maybe possible.

Bob Witt
Indianapolis, Indiana