late Hutchins ends with height extension (square corner with no indent)

I've seen conflicting commentary on which is the early Hutchins end and
which is the late one. I know on the Westerfield site the square-cornered
ribs are referred to as the late style, and the tapered-corner ribs are
referred to as the early style.

This puzzles me, though, as the square-cornered ends seem to be found on
cars earlier than the later ones - examples being the P&N's 10000-series
with 3-panel square-corner ends (first ORER listing I've seen was 1915),
and PM cars with 3-panel ends as well (I'm not at home so don't have my PM
book at hand to check, but will do so when I go home); I've seen such
3-panel ends elsewhere, too - I can't remember which roads, though,
perhaps CNJ? The tapered corners don't seem to appear until later than
that - in the 20s. I suspect there might be some overlap in when they were
produced, too: Westerfield lists the Southern SU cars as first having the
tapered ends, from 1922; P&N's 1100-series DS cars have build dates of
1923 and have the square corner. And, P&N's 24000 series auto boxcars (the
ones that went to the AC&Y) were built in 1925 (a photo of 24099 has a
build date of 7-25) and have the tapered corners.

I would suggest, then, that the earlier end is in fact the square-corner
variety, unless someone has documented evidence otherwise? I've only seen
three-panel Hutchins ends with square-corner ribs, and those are all on
very low IH cars (some less than 9') - which I'd think is certainly an
indication of being older, than taller IH cars.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

-----
http://hydrorail.hostwq.net/index.html - Rails along the Fraser
http://hydrorail.rrpicturearchives.net/ - Rail Photos

I looked through "Revenue Freight Cars of the Pere Marquette" and
found a few things relevant to this.

Firstly - the PM's three-panel Hutchins cars were rebuilt from
double-sheathed ends.

Secondly, as far as I can gather from the info in the book, the PM's
first cars built with steel ends came in 1919 with 5/5/5 USRA ends,
then switched to 8+8 vertical Vulcan ends on the 85000-85999 series
built starting in 1922.

Relevant to the discussion below, the first series of PM cars
originally built with Hutchins ends was 86000-87499, built in 1923
with 4-panel square-corner ends. After that came the 88000-88349
series, built in 1926 with 4-panel tapered-corner ends.

The 1923 build date of the 86000-series cars matches with the build
dates of some of the P&N's 1100-series cars that had 4-panel,
square-corner ends; the P&N's 24000-series, which are very similar to
the PM's 88000-series, were built in 1925.

I think this evidence serves to clarify the issue somewhat - the
earlier Hutchins ends have the square-corners, and the tapered-corner
ribs are on the later version of the Hutchins end.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, destron@... wrote:

late Hutchins ends with height extension (square corner with no

indent)

I've seen conflicting commentary on which is the early Hutchins end and
which is the late one. I know on the Westerfield site the

square-cornered

ribs are referred to as the late style, and the tapered-corner ribs are
referred to as the early style.

This puzzles me, though, as the square-cornered ends seem to be found on
cars earlier than the later ones - examples being the P&N's 10000-series
with 3-panel square-corner ends (first ORER listing I've seen was 1915),
and PM cars with 3-panel ends as well (I'm not at home so don't have

my PM

book at hand to check, but will do so when I go home); I've seen such
3-panel ends elsewhere, too - I can't remember which roads, though,
perhaps CNJ? The tapered corners don't seem to appear until later than
that - in the 20s. I suspect there might be some overlap in when

they were

produced, too: Westerfield lists the Southern SU cars as first

having the

tapered ends, from 1922; P&N's 1100-series DS cars have build dates of
1923 and have the square corner. And, P&N's 24000 series auto

boxcars (the

ones that went to the AC&Y) were built in 1925 (a photo of 24099 has a
build date of 7-25) and have the tapered corners.

I would suggest, then, that the earlier end is in fact the square-corner
variety, unless someone has documented evidence otherwise? I've only

seen

three-panel Hutchins ends with square-corner ribs, and those are all on
very low IH cars (some less than 9') - which I'd think is certainly an
indication of being older, than taller IH cars.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

-----
http://hydrorail.hostwq.net/index.html - Rails along the Fraser
http://hydrorail.rrpicturearchives.net/ - Rail Photos