DWP/CN 40' DD cars, wasRe: McKEAN KIT - SOUTHERN 40-FT DOUBLE DOOR BOXCAR


Carl J. Marsico <Carlmarsico@...>
 

While on the topic of the McKean/Accurail 40' double door car (on STMFC), my brain eventually drifted to a similar prototype in DW&P's former CN cars, such as this:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-d/dwc581730ssa.jpg

IIRC, CN had 40' cars built with both single and double door configurations, but also started rebuilding their 40' cars with 6' doors for newsprint (e.g. 8' SD, 9' PD, yellow doors) and lumber service (e.g. 12' DD, green doors) in the 60's. Where does this car fit in?

CJM


Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Carl,

Well, if this car was rebuilt in the 1960s, it doesn't fit anywhere, at least as far as this group is concerned.

In any case, the DWC car has a 4/4 early Dreadnaught end (rolling pin-shaped wales. The McKeen/Accurail car has an R-3/4 late improved Dreadnaught end (banana-shaped wales). You could probably chop the sides from a McKeen car, mating them with correct ends and a diagonal panel roof from Branchline. I did a similar conversion using interim R-3/4 Dreadnaught ends and a left-over diagonal panel Front Range roof (Branchline would also work) to make a "Wabash-ed" 8000 series double-door boxcar.

As far as I can see, the only real value of the McKeen kit is to contribute its sides to a flat-kit conversion.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Carl J. Marsico wrote:

While on the topic of the McKean/Accurail 40' double door car (on STMFC), my brain eventually drifted to a similar prototype in DW&P's former CN cars, such as this:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-d/dwc581730ssa.jpg
IIRC, CN had 40' cars built with both single and double door configurations, but also started rebuilding their 40' cars with 6' doors for newsprint (e.g. 8' SD, 9' PD, yellow doors) and lumber service (e.g. 12' DD, green doors) in the 60's. Where does this car fit in?
CJM


Carl J. Marsico <Carlmarsico@...>
 

Garth,

Just for clarification, I'm trying to determine whether this car is in its original configuration, e.g. former double door auto service car reassigned to lumber service vs. a 60's era rebuild from a single door car.

The modern DWP (and subsequently back to CN) version of this car just happens to be the only CN-family car I know of offhand that has the "flavor" (for lack of a better word) of the McKean/Accurail car, and I'm trying to determine whether a CN steam-era counterpart of this car even exists.

I also have one of these McKean cars squirreled away and am investigating the options out there...

CJM

"Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote:
Carl,

Well, if this car was rebuilt in the 1960s, it doesn't fit anywhere, at
least as far as this group is concerned.

In any case, the DWC car has a 4/4 early Dreadnaught end (rolling
pin-shaped wales. The McKeen/Accurail car has an R-3/4 late improved
Dreadnaught end (banana-shaped wales). You could probably chop the sides
from a McKeen car, mating them with correct ends and a diagonal panel
roof from Branchline. I did a similar conversion using interim R-3/4
Dreadnaught ends and a left-over diagonal panel Front Range roof
(Branchline would also work) to make a "Wabash-ed" 8000 series
double-door boxcar.

As far as I can see, the only real value of the McKeen kit is to
contribute its sides to a flat-kit conversion.

Kind regards,

Garth G. Groff

Carl J. Marsico wrote:

While on the topic of the McKean/Accurail 40' double door car (on STMFC), my brain eventually drifted to a similar prototype in DW&P's former CN cars, such as this:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-d/dwc581730ssa.jpg

IIRC, CN had 40' cars built with both single and double door configurations, but also started rebuilding their 40' cars with 6' doors for newsprint (e.g. 8' SD, 9' PD, yellow doors) and lumber service (e.g. 12' DD, green doors) in the 60's. Where does this car fit in?

CJM


Ian Cranstone
 

On 21-Mar-08, at 2:07 PM, Carl J. Marsico wrote:
While on the topic of the McKean/Accurail 40' double door car (on STMFC), my brain eventually drifted to a similar prototype in DW&P's former CN cars, such as this:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-d/dwc581730ssa.jpg

IIRC, CN had 40' cars built with both single and double door configurations, but also started rebuilding their 40' cars with 6' doors for newsprint (e.g. 8' SD, 9' PD, yellow doors) and lumber service (e.g. 12' DD, green doors) in the 60's. Where does this car fit in?
I've been slowly working on an article for CN LINES on this very topic, and maybe one of these years I'll get around to finishing it. The essential thing to know when talking about CN 40' steel boxcars (which were the source for all of the DWC cars) is this:

If it has a 6' or 8' single door, or double doors of 15', it was built that way (there were a handful of exceptions that received 8' doors in place of their 6' doors in the early 1960s, but these were not repeated).

If it has 9' doors (sliding or plug), or double doors of 12' or combination sliding/plug doors of 15', it is a 1960s/1970s rebuild. One suspects that the 12' opening came about because of all the extra 6' doors that would have been removed from the cars getting 9' doors.

So to get back to the original question, this DWC car is a former CN car that has had an auxiliary 6' door added to create a 12' door opening -- apparently at CN's Pointe St. Charles shops in Montreal (HQ) in October 1972. The source car for this prototype would have been drawn from the CN 522500-523999 series (Canadian Car & Foundry), and this particular car was renumbered CN 581730 in September 1977.

The Accurail car is probably only a stand-in for these Canadian-built prototypes (I haven't compared roofs & ends), but the addition of some Canadian 8-rung ladders, and end sill steps would make it acceptable for many.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...
http://freightcars.nakina.net
http://siberians.nakina.net


Carl J. Marsico <Carlmarsico@...>
 

Wow-thanks for the comprehensive answer!

CJM

Ian Cranstone <lamontc@...> wrote:
On 21-Mar-08, at 2:07 PM, Carl J. Marsico wrote:
While on the topic of the McKean/Accurail 40' double door car (on
STMFC), my brain eventually drifted to a similar prototype in
DW&P's former CN cars, such as this:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-d/dwc581730ssa.jpg

IIRC, CN had 40' cars built with both single and double door
configurations, but also started rebuilding their 40' cars with 6'
doors for newsprint (e.g. 8' SD, 9' PD, yellow doors) and lumber
service (e.g. 12' DD, green doors) in the 60's. Where does this car
fit in?
I've been slowly working on an article for CN LINES on this very
topic, and maybe one of these years I'll get around to finishing it.
The essential thing to know when talking about CN 40' steel boxcars
(which were the source for all of the DWC cars) is this:

If it has a 6' or 8' single door, or double doors of 15', it was
built that way (there were a handful of exceptions that received 8'
doors in place of their 6' doors in the early 1960s, but these were
not repeated).

If it has 9' doors (sliding or plug), or double doors of 12' or
combination sliding/plug doors of 15', it is a 1960s/1970s rebuild.
One suspects that the 12' opening came about because of all the extra
6' doors that would have been removed from the cars getting 9' doors.

So to get back to the original question, this DWC car is a former CN
car that has had an auxiliary 6' door added to create a 12' door
opening -- apparently at CN's Pointe St. Charles shops in Montreal
(HQ) in October 1972. The source car for this prototype would have
been drawn from the CN 522500-523999 series (Canadian Car & Foundry),
and this particular car was renumbered CN 581730 in September 1977.

The Accurail car is probably only a stand-in for these Canadian-built
prototypes (I haven't compared roofs & ends), but the addition of
some Canadian 8-rung ladders, and end sill steps would make it
acceptable for many.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...
http://freightcars.nakina.net
http://siberians.nakina.net


Andy Carlson
 

Garth, Carl et all....
Don't forget the correct doors for the DWP car as pictured in the link are 5/6/5 tall pre-war Youngstown doors, not the post-war Y Doors supplied as molded on doors on the McKeen DD car.
-Andy

"Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote: Carl,

Well, if this car was rebuilt in the 1960s, it doesn't fit anywhere, at
least as far as this group is concerned.

In any case, the DWC car has a 4/4 early Dreadnaught end (rolling
pin-shaped wales. The McKeen/Accurail car has an R-3/4 late improved
Dreadnaught end (banana-shaped wales). You could probably chop the sides
from a McKeen car, mating them with correct ends and a diagonal panel
roof from Branchline. I did a similar conversion using interim R-3/4
Dreadnaught ends and a left-over diagonal panel Front Range roof
(Branchline would also work) to make a "Wabash-ed" 8000 series
double-door boxcar.

As far as I can see, the only real value of the McKeen kit is to
contribute its sides to a flat-kit conversion.

Kind regards,

Garth G. Groff

Carl J. Marsico wrote:

While on the topic of the McKean/Accurail 40' double door car (on STMFC), my brain eventually drifted to a similar prototype in DW&P's former CN cars, such as this:
>
> http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-d/dwc581730ssa.jpg
>
> IIRC, CN had 40' cars built with both single and double door configurations, but also started rebuilding their 40' cars with 6' doors for newsprint (e.g. 8' SD, 9' PD, yellow doors) and lumber service (e.g. 12' DD, green doors) in the 60's. Where does this car fit in?
>
> CJM