Santa Fe Accurail kits


sfeforever
 

On Richard Hendrickson's accurate Santa Fe kits he doesn't list any
Accurail kits. None of the kits are even close ? How 'bout Branchline's
Santa Fe kits ? Was the list compiled before Accurail's and
Branchline's offerings ?


sfeforever
 

--- In STMFC@..., "sfeforever" <dwedel1@...> wrote:

On Richard Hendrickson's accurate Santa Fe kits he doesn't list any
Accurail kits. None of the kits are even close ? How 'bout
Branchline's
Santa Fe kits ? Was the list compiled before Accurail's and
Branchline's offerings ?
Sorry - got in a hurry -
Thanks for any replies,
Dwight Wedel


John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "sfeforever" <dwedel1@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "sfeforever" <dwedel1@> wrote:

On Richard Hendrickson's accurate Santa Fe kits he doesn't list any
Accurail kits. None of the kits are even close ? How 'bout
Branchline's
Santa Fe kits ? Was the list compiled before Accurail's and
Branchline's offerings ?
Sorry - got in a hurry -
Thanks for any replies,
Dwight Wedel

Dwight,

There is a more recent list on the S.F. Rwy Hist. & Modeling Society
site. See the online resources section at atsfrr.net then look under
Richard Hendrickson. IIRC, two Branchline cars are listed there
(Bx-44 and Fe-27), but no Accurail. The only close ATSF Accurail cars
I am aware of would be the DS wood box as a Bx-2 and perhaps the DS
wood reefer as a USRA car. The reefer may be close to the Rr-4 for
which it is decorated, but I have not done any comparisons to the
prototype. At the least, I suspect hatch orientation and hatch
platforms would need to be changed. To be honest, I have not focused
on either of the Accurail cars, as the prototypes had been rebuilt
into steel-bodied cars by my era of interest...1952-53.

Accurail prototypes were discussed recently on this list: see message
69229. The Bx-44 was discussed several times on this list as well,
with info on door and roofwalk accuracy - just query Bx-44.

Branchline offers their Yardmaster car decorated for a Bx-27, but it
would at least need a Duryea underframe and square-corner ends to be
accurate.

Hope this helps,
John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


sfeforever
 

Thanks John.


Dwight,

There is a more recent list on the S.F. Rwy Hist. & Modeling Society
site. See the online resources section at atsfrr.net then look
under
Richard Hendrickson. IIRC, two Branchline cars are listed there
(Bx-44 and Fe-27), but no Accurail. The only close ATSF Accurail
cars
I am aware of would be the DS wood box as a Bx-2 and perhaps the DS
wood reefer as a USRA car. The reefer may be close to the Rr-4 for
which it is decorated, but I have not done any comparisons to the
prototype. At the least, I suspect hatch orientation and hatch
platforms would need to be changed. To be honest, I have not
focused
on either of the Accurail cars, as the prototypes had been rebuilt
into steel-bodied cars by my era of interest...1952-53.

Accurail prototypes were discussed recently on this list: see
message
69229. The Bx-44 was discussed several times on this list as well,
with info on door and roofwalk accuracy - just query Bx-44.

Branchline offers their Yardmaster car decorated for a Bx-27, but it
would at least need a Duryea underframe and square-corner ends to be
accurate.

Hope this helps,
John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 14, 2008, at 8:16 AM, John Hile wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "sfeforever" <dwedel1@> wrote:

On Richard Hendrickson's accurate Santa Fe kits he doesn't list
any
Accurail kits. None of the kits are even close ? How 'bout
Branchline's
Santa Fe kits ? Was the list compiled before Accurail's and
Branchline's offerings ?

Dwight,

There is a more recent list on the S.F. Rwy Hist. & Modeling Society
site. See the online resources section at atsfrr.net then look under
Richard Hendrickson. IIRC, two Branchline cars are listed there
(Bx-44 and Fe-27), but no Accurail. The only close ATSF Accurail cars
I am aware of would be the DS wood box as a Bx-2 and perhaps the DS
wood reefer as a USRA car. The reefer may be close to the Rr-4 for
which it is decorated, but I have not done any comparisons to the
prototype. At the least, I suspect hatch orientation and hatch
platforms would need to be changed. To be honest, I have not focused
on either of the Accurail cars, as the prototypes had been rebuilt
into steel-bodied cars by my era of interest...1952-53.























I compiled that list YEARS ago, so it's seriously out of date. I'm
of two minds about publishing lists of that sort at all; they may be
useful at the time, but then they don't go away, and fairly soon they
become not only obsolete but misleading. As John says, the
Branchline Bx-44 and Fe-27 models are accurate, apart from some
details. As for the Accurail models, the only one that's
prototypically correct for the Santa Fe is the 40' USRA wood sheathed
box car (assuming you can live with the molded-on grab irons and
such), and the Santa Fe Bx-2s were all rebuilt into steel cars by
1942. The reefer model is nowhere close to the Santa Fe's Rr-4 class
or any other of its modified USRA wood reefers, which had, in
addition to different ice hatch covers and platforms, different
roofs, different underframes, and five foot wide doors.

Richard Hendrickson


David North <davenorth@...>
 

Richard,

ATSF rostered 70 ton 3 bays from at least 3 makers. Some of the classes were

GA-43, GA-73 & GA-86 from ACF

GA-77 & GA-81 from PSCM

GA-100 & GA-109 & GA-121 from GAT



Is the Accurail 3 bay hopper a match for any of these?

I haven't seen one of these in the flesh. Only the pic on their website

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/7500/7501.jpg



I actually thought the Stewart 70ton 3 bay was good for one/some of these.

http://bowser-trains.com/hocars/Stew_offset/Stew_offset_hopper.htm



Now I'm wondering if these two models represent the same car.

Or perhaps more correctly if the ACF, PSCM and GAT cars are of identical or
similar design?

Cheers

Dave


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 15, 2008, at 6:17 AM, David North wrote:

Richard,

ATSF rostered 70 ton 3 bays from at least 3 makers. Some of the
classes were

GA-43, GA-73 & GA-86 from ACF

GA-77 & GA-81 from PSCM

GA-100 & GA-109 & GA-121 from GAT

Is the Accurail 3 bay hopper a match for any of these?

I haven't seen one of these in the flesh. Only the pic on their
website

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/7500/7501.jpg

I actually thought the Stewart 70ton 3 bay was good for one/some of
these.

http://bowser-trains.com/hocars/Stew_offset/Stew_offset_hopper.htm

Now I'm wondering if these two models represent the same car.

Or perhaps more correctly if the ACF, PSCM and GAT cars are of
identical or
similar design?


























The early class Ga-21 (1929) and Ga-43 (1936) three bay hoppers were
built to a design that, AFAIK, has never been modeled. The post-WW-
II Santa Fe three bay hoppers, beginning with class Ga-73, were all
built to the AAR standard design which is accurately modeled by both
the Stewart/Bowser and Accurail cars. I apologize for overlooking
the Accurail hopper as an accurate model of a Santa Fe prototype car.


Richard Hendrickson


Ed Hawkins
 

On Apr 15, 2008, at 8:17 AM, David North wrote:

<SNIP>
Is the Accurail 3 bay hopper a match for any of these?
David,
The Accurail 3-bay hopper was patterned after 1,000 class W-7 cars
built for B&O in 1947 (435000-435999). This is based on the ends of the
model, which "tries" (poorly) to duplicate Z-sections that support the
end sheets from the top of the ends to the end sills. The Z-sections
were more closely spaced than other end arrangements using either
channels or angles. The sides on the Accurail model match the
configuration used on a substantial number of 70-ton triples, but none
for Santa Fe as far as I can tell.

The Accurail model has a straight side sill between the bolsters with
an angled section from the bolster to the corner post. Santa Fe's cars
in classes Ga-73, Ga-81, Ga-86, Ga-100, Ga-109, and Ga-121 all had
sides that were straight from end to end with a shallow fish-belly
between the bolsters. The Stewart/Bowser model better represents these
ATSF cars, although there still needs to be modifications to the ends.
These ATSF cars all had vertical angles from the top of the ends to the
end sills, whereas the Stewart/Bowser model has channels that extend
from the bottom of the end sheets to the end sills. This would be a
relatively easy modification to make.

I have not yet found prototype photos of classes Ga-66 and Ga-77 to
verify the side and arrangement used on these cars (series
183000-183224 and 183425-183924). Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Dave,

A quick look makes me think the spacing of the top rib placement is different on each car. A standard vs non-standard design ????

Fred Freitas

David North <davenorth@...> wrote:
Richard,

ATSF rostered 70 ton 3 bays from at least 3 makers. Some of the classes were

GA-43, GA-73 & GA-86 from ACF

GA-77 & GA-81 from PSCM

GA-100 & GA-109 & GA-121 from GAT

Is the Accurail 3 bay hopper a match for any of these?

I haven't seen one of these in the flesh. Only the pic on their website

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/7500/7501.jpg

I actually thought the Stewart 70ton 3 bay was good for one/some of these.

http://bowser-trains.com/hocars/Stew_offset/Stew_offset_hopper.htm

Now I'm wondering if these two models represent the same car.

Or perhaps more correctly if the ACF, PSCM and GAT cars are of identical or
similar design?

Cheers

Dave


Richard Hendrickson
 

I defer to Ed Hakins' superior knowledge both of the Accurail
triple hopper and the prototypes which it represents, whether
accurately or inaccurately. He concludes:

I have not yet found prototype photos of classes Ga-66 and Ga-77 to
verify the side and arrangement used on these cars (series
183000-183224 and 183425-183924).







I don't have good photos of these classes either, but it's clear from
the diagrams in the Santa Fe Freight Car Folio that they were
essentially the same as the other postwar Santa Fe three bay hoppers.

Richard Hendrickson


David North <davenorth@...>
 

I don't have good photos of these classes either, but it's clear from the
diagrams in the Santa Fe Freight Car Folio that they were
essentially the same as the other postwar Santa Fe three bay hoppers.
Richard Hendrickson



Richard and Ed,

The only pic I have of the earlier classes is a rather dark one of a GA-43
from one of the Cyclopedias, IIRC.



I have a photo of a GA-81 #184134, but it has had the side plated between
the bolsters, and they plated over the short ribs at the top.

The photos I have of GA-86 #78910 and GA-100 #79600 show the very slight
fishbelly sill you mentioned, Ed. I hadn't noticed this before you pointed
it out.

I think these are photocopies from RMJ articles?



The photo of GA-121 #78331? Which is plated also has the very slight
fishbelly. This lot of 150 cars came from Greenville in 1960.

http://gelwood.railfan.net/atsf/atsf78321ags.jpg



From what I can see the top rib placement appears to be similar on the
photos I have, which is at odds with Fred's thoughts, if we are talking
about the spacing between the ribs.



Does anyone know what service these open hoppers cars were in?

I know that the GA-141s (GA-100s with trough hatch roofs installed) were
used in Duvall Potash Service, but these mods took place in 1964, beyond the
era covered by this list.



Cheers

Dave