Am finishing up a number of Westerfield kits I've had in various
stages of completion and am starting to finish the B&O M-15E. I'm
spraying Floquil's reds (ATSF Mineral Brown, BCR and zinc oxide) and
would appreciate any recommendations as to what color the B&O would
have painted this car. I'm modeling the early 1950's so the car will
have shown heavy use by this date but I want to try and get the base
color close. Thanks - Charlie

Charlie,

I will offer some popular wisdom about B&O colors and I hope to hear
some alternate wisdom. My pre-1945 color is based on a Delano photo
where an early scheme (cap dome) M-15 appears very brown. Also check
out this web page for lettering diagrams that can give general
lettering information (they are specfically for the M-26 but translate
to other B&O boxcars) http://borhs.org/Logos/bo_font_logo.html. This
webpage gives an idea about how the lettering changed over time in the
steam era. Many B&O historians feel that the ever changing freight car
brown color often mentioned was very brown before 1945 when a new
lettering scheme was introduced and changed to a much more red-brown
color. But we do not know if a change to a more red brown color changed
happened at exactly the same time. It appears that cars lettered with
the post 1945 "Linking Thirteen States" were painted with a much more
red brown color. For my modeling I use Polly Scale Boxcar Red
(sometimes with a little brown added) for B&O pre 1945 lettering
schemes and Polly Scale Zinc Chromate for 1945 to 1963 B&O lettering
schemes. So far this has not been critisized by other B&O folks, but we
are all looking for more information. They weathered pretty
differently, one becoming darker, one becoming more red-pink. In the
May/June 2006 B&O Modeler magazine I discussed this and offered some
black and white prototype photos of M-15e's and color model photos of
my Westerfield kits.

Regards,
Bruce D. Griffin
Summerfield, NC

B&O boxcar color changed from a chocolate brown to a bright red oxide
about 1946. It may have coincided with the "linking 13 great
states" herald and lettering.

So if you are lettering this car with the Kuhler (plain) B&O dome
herald or no herald, it would be a medium chocolate brown. If you
are weathering, the ATSF mineral brown has some merit as a base
color. This B&O color faded and weathered quickly.

If your car will have the 13 great states herald, it would be a
bright oxide red. Scalecoat red oxide is great, Floquil zinc
chromate (not oxide) acceptable.

Research on B&O boxcar colors is ongoing in the absence of several
company memos that would reveal all, if found.




--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie Duckworth" <trduck@...> wrote:

Am finishing up a number of Westerfield kits I've had in various
stages of completion and am starting to finish the B&O M-15E. I'm
spraying Floquil's reds (ATSF Mineral Brown, BCR and zinc oxide) and
would appreciate any recommendations as to what color the B&O would
have painted this car. I'm modeling the early 1950's so the car

will

have shown heavy use by this date but I want to try and get the base
color close. Thanks - Charlie

Thanks for the suggestions on colors, dates on color changes and heards
used this helps a poor ole Mopac modeler.

Charlie

Folks;



I don't know if you all were aware of this, so it may bear repeating; I
believe Misters Pat Wider, Ed Hawkins, and et al., published an article in
one of the early RPCyCs on BoxCar Painting and Lettering that had info from
AC&F files on what the RRs (B&O included) wanted their box cars painted, with
some model RR paint formulae attached. You may get some ideas from that
excellent article.



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
jim_mischke
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 3:50 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Any recommendations for a B&O M-15E boxcar red shade?





B&O boxcar color changed from a chocolate brown to a bright red oxide
about 1946. It may have coincided with the "linking 13 great
states" herald and lettering.

So if you are lettering this car with the Kuhler (plain) B&O dome
herald or no herald, it would be a medium chocolate brown. If you
are weathering, the ATSF mineral brown has some merit as a base
color. This B&O color faded and weathered quickly.

If your car will have the 13 great states herald, it would be a
bright oxide red. Scalecoat red oxide is great, Floquil zinc
chromate (not oxide) acceptable.

Research on B&O boxcar colors is ongoing in the absence of several
company memos that would reveal all, if found.

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Charlie
Duckworth" <trduck@...> wrote:

Am finishing up a number of Westerfield kits I've had in various
stages of completion and am starting to finish the B&O M-15E. I'm
spraying Floquil's reds (ATSF Mineral Brown, BCR and zinc oxide) and
would appreciate any recommendations as to what color the B&O would
have painted this car. I'm modeling the early 1950's so the car

will

have shown heavy use by this date but I want to try and get the base
color close. Thanks - Charlie

It seems to me that early RMJ or MRG had a series on freight cars that attempted to document colors
and had drift cards printed on the pages for reference.
Charlie Vlk

On Apr 25, 2008, at 10:42 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

olks;

I don't know if you all were aware of this, so it may bear repeating;
I
believe Misters Pat Wider, Ed Hawkins, and et al., published an
article in
one of the early RPCyCs on BoxCar Painting and Lettering that had
info from
AC&F files on what the RRs (B&O included) wanted their box cars
painted, with
some model RR paint formulae attached. You may get some ideas from
that
excellent article.

Elden Gatwood

Elden,
Thank you for the article reference, which was in RP CYC Vol. 3. The
specific B&O freight car red paint samples that we matched to various
hobby paints were limited to AC&F-built box cars from 1947 to 1951
(M-58, M-60, and M-61 classes). During this period these samples ranged
from oxide red (similar to that used by UP and a number of other
railroads) to very bright zinc chromate primer. The paint names
included Pittsburgh Synthetic Red and Thresher Varnish Co. Freight Car
Red. These samples can be viewed in the applicable bills of materials
that are located at the St. Louis Mercantile Library (Barriger National
Railroad Library).

Information contained in some earlier Pullman-Standard bills of
materials of B&O box cars built in 1941-1942 (M-55A and M-57 classes)
specifies the paint names as "Brown" with a B&O spec. number 43-H-1.
Unfortunately I don't have any paint samples from these earlier cars,
but the paint names provide a basis that the B&O standard box car color
changed in a significant way between 1942 and 1947 from Brown to Red.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins