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1950's Auto Transport Trailers
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prbharris
--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
We are working on a model of one of the dual axle style auto carriers, and have drawings of them. The trailers were used on the Clejan flatcars as Tony Thompson demonstrates. There was a large roster of the auto carriers used on the GM service. Better photos are in another of Tony Thompson's books his 'Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment Vol 1'p 93 thru 99. These photos were SP publicity shots, and were staged rather than action reality. There was a similar trailer, albeit with one axle used by Hudson on the FlexiVan chassis. The models of the Pacific Motor Transport autocarrier are will be in N Scale. Peter Peter Harris N Scale Kits www.nscalekits.com |
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I've seen photos of cars on trailers on flat cars on the
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CB&Q and C&NW in Chicago, the CNJ in Pennsylvania, the PRR, and of course it was common on the SP for a time. A 75' PRR/TTX flat car of the mid 1950's could carry 8 automobiles on 2 trailers, as could SP Clejan flats. Tim O'Connor At 5/21/2008 09:04 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Bruce Smith wrote:However, the original question asked about TOFC auto carriers (ieThere are two photos of this exact thing, on SP, in my Vol. 3 on |
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Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
Al and all,
The funny part of some of these early auopt carriers was the way they were designed. Until recent years when it was sold out to Hertz one of the better known brands of auto-carriers were the Delevan trailers. A daughter of the founder of the company is a friend whom I asked some ten years ago if any plans for post-war car trailers that Delevan constructed might still exist. She checked with her oldest brother and was told that their father never had blueprints drawn up as we might expect. Rather, they covered a wall the length of what they inteded to construct with paper, drew the inteded trailer on the paper and went to work to construct it! No, I am not joking. Many of the parts were standard items purchased outside, axles, wheels and such. The rest was constructed of standard steel shapes and sheet metal in much the same way that Mather put their railroad cars together. Guess those were just simpler times but "Delevan Delivers" with the workhorse emblem trailers were still often seen until about 2000. Don Valentine --- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote: plants in the 1950's was still auto-rack box cars. They were beginning to use direct haul truck tractor (cab over engine) and trailers in the early 1950s. There were a few (two or three? GTW, PRR? others?) experimental flat cars with Evans Products racks made in the mid-1950s. The C&O made up drawings and got patents in 1956 but didn't appear to have made any six-auto, double deck 56-ft flat cars. The 85-ft TOFs (two truck trailers) showed up in the late 50s. Direct drive up the end with ramps flat cars with racks didn't become popular in the assembly plants until the mid 60s. If you can go back to 1900 you can find 36-ft wooden flat cars with wooden side rails/guides to ship buggies and carriages on. seem to find any plans. email; I have to come to the web site; anyone else having problems? |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Al Kresse wrote:
The mainstream means of automobile transporting out of the assembly plants in the 1950's was still auto-rack box cars.Nope. After 1950 it declined sharply, and by 1959 the railroads were carrying under 10 per cent of the new autos. Introduction of auto racks on flat cars in 1959 reversed this trend; by 1966 nearly half of all new autos were shipped by rail. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Bruce Smith wrote:
However, the original question asked about TOFC auto carriers (ie autos on truck trailers in turn on flat cars), and frankly, I'm not sure that ever occurred, or if it did, it was both extremely rare and after the time-frame of this list.There are two photos of this exact thing, on SP, in my Vol. 3 on flat cars, pp. 302, 303, and they are 1959-model cars. But I don't know how rare it was. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
There is a photo of a train of TTX P-S "Lo-Dek" flats carrying loaded auto trailers in the 1961 CBC. The photos there generally show new things since the last issue (1957), so it was probably in the 1957-1961 timeframe.
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Autorack flats are well represented in this issue. Cars shown include RTTX 200061 SLSF 3053 SLSF 3003 RTTX 478200 RTTX 200204 Perhaps somebody can bound the photo dates by the BLT dates of these cars. KL ----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith However, the original question asked about TOFC auto carriers (ie autos on truck trailers in turn on flat cars), and frankly, I'm not sure that ever occurred, or if it did, it was both extremely rare and after the time-frame of this list. |
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On May 21, 2008, at 10:11 AM, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:
Al Kresse asked:The RPI pay site has photos of bilevel auto-racks on NYC and UP flat cars. If you're a member, you can see these at: http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/displayimage.php?i=33485 http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/displayimage.php?i=33484 However, the original question asked about TOFC auto carriers (ie autos on truck trailers in turn on flat cars), and frankly, I'm not sure that ever occurred, or if it did, it was both extremely rare and after the time-frame of this list. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2 "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield." __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 |
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Richard Townsend
When you look on eBay, check under Revell, too, since Revell was the original manufacturer of this kit.
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Richard Townsend Lincoln City, Oregon -----Original Message-----
From: bnpmodeler <bnchmark@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Wed, 21 May 2008 6:12 am Subject: [STMFC] Re: 1950's Auto Transport Trailers Brian and list: Although I am loathe to even bring it up in this particular venue, just yesterday my mail carrier delivered the June 2008 issue of the NMRA's 'Scale Rails'. In that issue, Mont Switzer models these trailers in HO scale using a Heljan/Con-Cor kit. I never even knew such a kit existed. I sure wish I had. I have no idea if they are still available; I checked eBay without any success. They are beautiful, made more so by the fine modeling exhibited by Mr. Switzer. Personally speaking, this prototype modeling article alone has made membership in NMRA worthwhile. Jim Harr --- In STMFC@..., "brianehni" <behni@...> wrote: to find any plans. I have to come to the web site; anyone else having problems? |
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benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
Al Kresse asked:
"Were not the GTW and NYC flats longer than 56-ft >> maybe 65-70-ft long or so?" I can't speak for any possible experimental GTW racks, but the NYC flats were 53 ft 6 in flats: NYC 500085, Lot 793-F http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-EARLY-AUTORACK-STORY.jpg http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-793.jpg http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm At least one additional car received a slightly different rack design which the Athearn rack appears to be based upon. I don't have the citation handy, but a photo of this car ran as the last page of Scale Rails/NMRA Bulletin a few years ago. Ben Hom |
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Paul <buygone@...>
Al:
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The title is "NEW CAR CARRIERS" "1910 - 1998 Photo Album" by Donald F. Wood ISBN 1-882256-98-0. This is an excellent book as Tim stated and it has a picture of a Southern Pacific (PMT) tractor and auto carrier trailer on the cover. Paul C. Koehler _____ From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of water.kresse@... Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 7:18 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] 1950's Auto Transport Trailers Tim, I pondered over that statement. Rail (auto-rack box cars) was ramping down and truck haulage was ramping up. They had some beautiful trailers with enclosing sheet metal for hauling autos in those early-1950s days. The C&O was still adding or converting 50-ft Auto-Rack box cars in 1948. If you look up that Iconografix book title (or get a brain flash) I would appreciate it. Al Kresse -------------- Original message --------------
From: timboconnor@ <mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> comcast.net Brian Iconografix published a paperback book that contains a wonderful collection of photos going back to the early part of the 20th Century through the 1960's that has many outstanding photos of trailers, freight cars, and even river barges (including a large postwar C&O Ohio River barge) designed to transport automobiles. I forget the exact title of the book (and I'm at work at the moment) but I'm pretty sure "auto" or "automobile" appears in it. And to correct Al a bit, by the early 1950's the dominant method of transport for new automobiles was by highway, not rail. By the late 1950's railroads had a very small share of the business, although railroads dominated in the auto parts business -- the reverse of the situation today! Tim O'Connor -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: water.kresse@ <mailto:water.kresse%40comcast.net> comcast.net Brian,in the 1950's was still auto-rack box cars. They were beginning to use directhaul truck tractor (cab over engine) and trailers in the early 1950s. Therewere a few (two or three? GTW, PRR? others?) experimental flat cars with EvansProducts racks made in the mid-1950s. The C&O made up drawings and got patents in1956 but didn't appear to have made any six-auto, double deck 56-ft flat cars.The 85-ft TOFs (two truck trailers) showed up in the late 50s. Direct drive upthe end with ramps flat cars with racks didn't become popular in the assemblyplants until the mid 60s. If you can go back to 1900 you can find 36-ft woodenflat cars with wooden side rails/guides to ship buggies and carriages on. |
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water.kresse@...
Frank,
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Were not the GTW and NYC flats longer than 56-ft >> maybe 65-70-ft long or so? Also, from looking at C&O pictures of post-Auto Rack box cars, it looks like they had to reinforce the door opening sills for handling higher density loads than four automobiles (maybe 8-10 tons total). Al Kresse -------------- Original message --------------
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> Al Kresse wrote: "The mainstream means of automobile transporting out of the assembly plants in the 1950's was still auto-rack box cars. They were beginning to use direct haul truck tractor (cab over engine) and trailers in the early 1950s." These trailers would steadily cut into the railroads' share of finished auto traffic. By the late 1950s, many automobile boxcars equipped with Evans Auto Loaders would become surplus. For example, the Pennsy converted many Class X32 and subclass automobile cars into Class X51E-X51H boxcars and Class K9/K9A stock cars beginning in 1959, as well as into Class X32D general service boxcars by removing the auxiliary doors and plating over the opening. "There were a few (two or three? GTW, PRR? others?) experimental flat cars with Evans Products racks made in the mid-1950s." Not PRR. NYC had at least two experimental cars - see the list archives for previous discussions about these cars in conjunction with the the Athearn 50 ft auto rack model. Ben Hom |
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water.kresse@...
Tim,
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I pondered over that statement. Rail (auto-rack box cars) was ramping down and truck haulage was ramping up. They had some beautiful trailers with enclosing sheet metal for hauling autos in those early-1950s days. The C&O was still adding or converting 50-ft Auto-Rack box cars in 1948. If you look up that Iconografix book title (or get a brain flash) I would appreciate it. Al Kresse -------------- Original message --------------
From: timboconnor@... Brian Iconografix published a paperback book that contains a wonderful collection of photos going back to the early part of the 20th Century through the 1960's that has many outstanding photos of trailers, freight cars, and even river barges (including a large postwar C&O Ohio River barge) designed to transport automobiles. I forget the exact title of the book (and I'm at work at the moment) but I'm pretty sure "auto" or "automobile" appears in it. And to correct Al a bit, by the early 1950's the dominant method of transport for new automobiles was by highway, not rail. By the late 1950's railroads had a very small share of the business, although railroads dominated in the auto parts business -- the reverse of the situation today! Tim O'Connor -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: water.kresse@... Brian, |
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benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
Al Kresse wrote:
"The mainstream means of automobile transporting out of the assembly plants in the 1950's was still auto-rack box cars. They were beginning to use direct haul truck tractor (cab over engine) and trailers in the early 1950s." These trailers would steadily cut into the railroads' share of finished auto traffic. By the late 1950s, many automobile boxcars equipped with Evans Auto Loaders would become surplus. For example, the Pennsy converted many Class X32 and subclass automobile cars into Class X51E-X51H boxcars and Class K9/K9A stock cars beginning in 1959, as well as into Class X32D general service boxcars by removing the auxiliary doors and plating over the opening. "There were a few (two or three? GTW, PRR? others?) experimental flat cars with Evans Products racks made in the mid-1950s." Not PRR. NYC had at least two experimental cars - see the list archives for previous discussions about these cars in conjunction with the the Athearn 50 ft auto rack model. Ben Hom |
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Brian
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Iconografix published a paperback book that contains a wonderful collection of photos going back to the early part of the 20th Century through the 1960's that has many outstanding photos of trailers, freight cars, and even river barges (including a large postwar C&O Ohio River barge) designed to transport automobiles. I forget the exact title of the book (and I'm at work at the moment) but I'm pretty sure "auto" or "automobile" appears in it. And to correct Al a bit, by the early 1950's the dominant method of transport for new automobiles was by highway, not rail. By the late 1950's railroads had a very small share of the business, although railroads dominated in the auto parts business -- the reverse of the situation today! Tim O'Connor -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: water.kresse@... Brian, |
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bnpmodeler
Brian and list:
Although I am loathe to even bring it up in this particular venue, just yesterday my mail carrier delivered the June 2008 issue of the NMRA's 'Scale Rails'. In that issue, Mont Switzer models these trailers in HO scale using a Heljan/Con-Cor kit. I never even knew such a kit existed. I sure wish I had. I have no idea if they are still available; I checked eBay without any success. They are beautiful, made more so by the fine modeling exhibited by Mr. Switzer. Personally speaking, this prototype modeling article alone has made membership in NMRA worthwhile. Jim Harr --- In STMFC@..., "brianehni" <behni@...> wrote: to find any plans. I have to come to the web site; anyone else having problems? |
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Bill Darnaby
It just so happens that the latest issue of the NMRA's Scale Rails has an article by Mont Switzer on doing exactly this.
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Bill Darnaby I'd like to model one of these as an early TOFC load, but can't seem to find any plans. |
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water.kresse@...
Brian,
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The mainstream means of automobile transporting out of the assembly plants in the 1950's was still auto-rack box cars. They were beginning to use direct haul truck tractor (cab over engine) and trailers in the early 1950s. There were a few (two or three? GTW, PRR? others?) experimental flat cars with Evans Products racks made in the mid-1950s. The C&O made up drawings and got patents in 1956 but didn't appear to have made any six-auto, double deck 56-ft flat cars. The 85-ft TOFs (two truck trailers) showed up in the late 50s. Direct drive up the end with ramps flat cars with racks didn't become popular in the assembly plants until the mid 60s. If you can go back to 1900 you can find 36-ft wooden flat cars with wooden side rails/guides to ship buggies and carriages on. Al Kresse -------------- Original message --------------
From: "brianehni" <behni@...> I'd like to model one of these as an early TOFC load, but can't seem to find any plans. Has anyone here got a set that would look right for mid-50's? Brian Ehni P.S. I seem to be unable to post messages here and on PCL via email; I have to come to the web site; anyone else having problems? |
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brianehni <behni@...>
I'd like to model one of these as an early TOFC load, but can't seem to find any plans.
Has anyone here got a set that would look right for mid-50's? Brian Ehni P.S. I seem to be unable to post messages here and on PCL via email; I have to come to the web site; anyone else having problems? |
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