Topics

Swift's Brookfield Butter "Meat" Reefer

rickstern845215 <rstern1@...>
 

Atlas has in their HO line a meat reefer decorated for Swift and the
lettering for "Brookfield Butter". I'm aware that Swift owned a
dairy/breakfast (eggs, milk, butter, etc.) products firm called
Brookfield, but I don't know if they had any special cars for
transporting dairy prodcuts.

Can anyone tell me ...

* Were these cars used for transporting meat, or dairy products.
E.g., was this just another of Swift's many advertising "sides" used on
their meat cars? * What was the time period when these cars were
active. I have found collectibles on the web for Swift's Brookfield
subsidiary from before WWII, but not after. * What parts of the
country might these cars have operated?

Thanks
Rick Stern

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 11, 2008, at 3:06 PM, rickstern845215 wrote:

Atlas has in their HO line a meat reefer decorated for Swift and the
lettering for "Brookfield Butter". I'm aware that Swift owned a
dairy/breakfast (eggs, milk, butter, etc.) products firm called
Brookfield, but I don't know if they had any special cars for
transporting dairy prodcuts.






See the forthcoming Signature Press book on billboard reefers (out
in July, unless Tony Thompson speaks with forked tongue). As it
happens, I'm doing a final review/copyread at this very moment, It
includes a photo of a Swift car with Brookfield Butter stenciling.
Can anyone tell me ...

* Were these cars used for transporting meat, or dairy products?


E.g., was this just another of Swift's many advertising "sides"
used on
their meat cars? *






Whatever Swift wanted to ship in them. Though the cars were RSMs,
their meat rails didn't prevent them from being used for dairy
products as well.

What was the time period when these cars were
active. I have found collectibles on the web for Swift's Brookfield
subsidiary from before WWII, but not after.




As the book explains, billboard reefers were banned by the ICC
effective in 1934, with all cars having such stenciling to be
repainted by 1938.

* What parts of the
country might these cars have operated?



Any place where Swift had packing plants or wholesale warehouses -
which is to say, just about anywhere except on remote branch lines.

Richard Hendrickson

michael bishop <goldrod_1@...>
 

The Swift and Company still had ads into the mid fifties for the Brookfield Dairy Butter. The ads were in major national magazines so it is possible that the items could have been in many areas of the country. BTW, Swift and Company has been sold to a Brazil meat packing company this last month.

Michael

rickstern845215 <rstern1@...> wrote:

Atlas has in their HO line a meat reefer decorated for Swift and the
lettering for "Brookfield Butter". I'm aware that Swift owned a
dairy/breakfast (eggs, milk, butter, etc.) products firm called
Brookfield, but I don't know if they had any special cars for
transporting dairy prodcuts.

Can anyone tell me ...

* Were these cars used for transporting meat, or dairy products.
E.g., was this just another of Swift's many advertising "sides" used on
their meat cars? * What was the time period when these cars were
active. I have found collectibles on the web for Swift's Brookfield
subsidiary from before WWII, but not after. * What parts of the
country might these cars have operated?

Thanks
Rick Stern

Richard Stern <rstern1@...>
 

I don't want to disagree with Richard Hendrickson . I've read his posts on
various lists and have always been thoroughly impressed with the depth and
breadth of his knowledge.



That said, the comment about billboard reefers being banned raises a
question in my mind. Recalling (in increasingly dim memory) my graduate
classes on transportation regulation (a class no longer needed, taught be a
professor who was certainly put into retirement by the industry's
deregulation), the reason the ICC banned billboard ads on freight cars was
that shippers would often find their shipments in cars advertising their
competitors. IIRC, the ban did not affect cars in captive service to a
specific shipper, nor to those owned by a specific shipper and used only for
their products. Thus, you still saw fairly bright cars with advertising
slogans after the ban, and even today see a few advertising slogans on
privately owned cars.



So, it would seem to me the Brookfield cars, if Swift still owned the
subsidiary through WWII, may have lasted significantly later than 1938?



Comments?



Rick



PS: Ever heard of a rate shark? A truly important function in the old days
of regulation.





As the book explains, billboard reefers were banned by the ICC
effective in 1934, with all cars having such stenciling to be
repainted by 1938.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Stern wrote:
That said, the comment about billboard reefers being banned raises a question in my mind . . . the reason the ICC banned billboard ads on freight cars was that shippers would often find their shipments in cars advertising their competitors.
The right answer, RIchard, would be to wait a bit for the book to emerge and read it for yourself, but in brief, not only was this NOT the reason, it was not even mentioned. The fact is that the billboard painting was done for cars under lease to a particular shipper, not for cars in general service.

IIRC, the ban did not affect cars in captive service to a specific shipper, nor to those owned by a specific shipper and used only for their products.
Not at first, but yes, over time an understanding emerged that long-term use or ownership of a car permitted the owner to put logos on the car, but NOT product advertising unless that product, and only that product, was going to be inside the car. For that reason, all the meat reefers quickly dropped mentioning individual products.
For more, particularly about the rebating practices which ACTUALLY caused the ICC decision, I commend the book to you.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Cyril Durrenberger
 

What book is being referenced here?

Cyril Durrenberger

--- Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
wrote:

Richard Stern wrote:
That said, the comment about billboard reefers
being banned raises a
question in my mind . . . the reason the ICC
banned billboard ads on
freight cars was that shippers would often find
their shipments in
cars advertising their competitors.
The right answer, RIchard, would be to wait
a bit for the book
to emerge and read it for yourself, but in brief,
not only was this NOT
the reason, it was not even mentioned. The fact is
that the billboard
painting was done for cars under lease to a
particular shipper, not for
cars in general service.

IIRC, the ban did not affect cars in captive
service to a specific
shipper, nor to those owned by a specific shipper
and used only for
their products.
Not at first, but yes, over time an
understanding emerged that
long-term use or ownership of a car permitted the
owner to put logos on
the car, but NOT product advertising unless that
product, and only that
product, was going to be inside the car. For that
reason, all the meat
reefers quickly dropped mentioning individual
products.
For more, particularly about the rebating
practices which
ACTUALLY caused the ICC decision, I commend the book
to you.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press,
Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail,
thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Donald B. Valentine
 

--- In STMFC@..., rickstern845215 <rstern1@...> wrote:

Atlas has in their HO line a meat reefer decorated for Swift and the
lettering for "Brookfield Butter". I'm aware that Swift owned a
dairy/breakfast (eggs, milk, butter, etc.) products firm called
Brookfield, but I don't know if they had any special cars for
transporting dairy prodcuts.

Can anyone tell me ...

* Were these cars used for transporting meat, or dairy products.
E.g., was this just another of Swift's many advertising "sides"
used on
their meat cars? * What was the time period when these cars were
active. I have found collectibles on the web for Swift's Brookfield
subsidiary from before WWII, but not after. * What parts of the
country might these cars have operated?

The problem with the Atlas meat reefer is that it was an odd
design used primarily by the Cudahy Packing Co. and very few, if any,
other meat packers, even though constructed by General American. The
most unusual, and distinguishing, feature of the car is the use of
only two hinges on each half of the door rather than the usual three.

I'd be VERY surprised to find that Swift ever used any of these
oddities. Your best bet for good Swift reefers are those Marty Lofton
offered in his Sunshine line of resin kits. Good models of meat
reefers in injection molded cars are hard to come by. Other than the
Mather meat reefers in the Red Caboose or InterMountain line I cannot
think of a single injection molded model of a meat reefer that the
majority on this list would accept without a considerable reworking.

Don Valentine

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Cyril Durrenberger wrote:
What book is being referenced here?
Cyril, it's a forthcoming book entitled "Billboard Refrigerator Cars," by Richard Hendrickson and Ed Kaminski. We are publishing it later this summer. There's a brief blurb on our web site (URL below) under "Forthcoming Titles."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

George R. Stilwell, Jr. <GRSJr@...>
 

Do you include the Atlas-O Swift wood side reefer in your list of poor renditions?
It does have the 2 hinge doors and looks quite authentic to me. It even has the more common red-painted roof rather than the worn-ouy and repainted black roof.

Ray Stilwell

Jerry <jrs060@...>
 

Well Don, let me see if I can help you here. If you look on page #45 of
the Carstens Publications book, Grand Trunk Heritage by Phill Hastings,
you shall find a photo of one "second out", as we railroads use to say, in
in a Grand Trunk freight train. The photo is not the best, halftone to be
sure, but you can clearly see it has only two hinges on each door, and is
in the 1950's red and white paint scheme.
I think I have seen another photo of a Swift car with two hinges per
door, but to tell you the truth, I can't at this moment tell you were.

Happiness, Jerry Stewart

In a rain soaked Woodstock, Illinois

--- In STMFC@..., "Donald B. Valentine" <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

The problem with the Atlas meat reefer is that it was an odd
design used primarily by the Cudahy Packing Co. and very few, if any,
other meat packers, even though constructed by General American. The
most unusual, and distinguishing, feature of the car is the use of
only two hinges on each half of the door rather than the usual three.

I'd be VERY surprised to find that Swift ever used any of these
oddities. Your best bet for good Swift reefers are those Marty Lofton
offered in his Sunshine line of resin kits. Good models of meat
reefers in injection molded cars are hard to come by. Other than the
Mather meat reefers in the Red Caboose or InterMountain line I cannot
think of a single injection molded model of a meat reefer that the
majority on this list would accept without a considerable reworking.

Don Valentine

Jerry <jrs060@...>
 

Well Don, let me see if I can help you here. If you look on page #45 of
the Carstens Publications book, Grand Trunk Heritage by Phill Hastings,
you shall find a photo of one "second out", as we railroads use to say, in
in a Grand Trunk freight train. The photo is not the best, halftone to be
sure, but you can clearly see it has only two hinges on each door, and is
in the 1950's red and white paint scheme.
I think I have seen another photo of a Swift car with two hinges per
door, but to tell you the truth, I can't at this moment tell you were.

Happiness, Jerry Stewart

In a rain soaked Woodstock, Illinois

--- In STMFC@..., "Donald B. Valentine" <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

The problem with the Atlas meat reefer is that it was an odd
design used primarily by the Cudahy Packing Co. and very few, if any,
other meat packers, even though constructed by General American. The
most unusual, and distinguishing, feature of the car is the use of
only two hinges on each half of the door rather than the usual three.

I'd be VERY surprised to find that Swift ever used any of these
oddities. Your best bet for good Swift reefers are those Marty Lofton
offered in his Sunshine line of resin kits. Good models of meat
reefers in injection molded cars are hard to come by. Other than the
Mather meat reefers in the Red Caboose or InterMountain line I cannot
think of a single injection molded model of a meat reefer that the
majority on this list would accept without a considerable reworking.

Don Valentine