Propane


Jared Harper <harper-brown@...>
 

There was a propane jobber on Santa Fe's Alma branch. No one locally
seems to know when it first appeared. Joe Lewis who worked as a
brakeman and conductor on the Alma branch mixed doesn't remember it.
It is on a Santa Fe station plat last revised in 1962. I am trying to
determine if it could have been there during my May 1943 modeling
date. Was propane shipped via rail in 1943? Would propane have been
used as a fuel in rural Kansas at that time? Or, was the propane
jobber probably from the 1950s or 1960s?
Jared Harper
Athens, GA


michael bishop <goldrod_1@...>
 

Propane or LP was shipped by rail starting in the in 30's. By 1945 sales of Propane had reached 1 billion gallons. If rural Kansas was using by then I do not know.

Michael

Jared Harper <harper-brown@...> wrote:
There was a propane jobber on Santa Fe's Alma branch. No one locally
seems to know when it first appeared. Joe Lewis who worked as a
brakeman and conductor on the Alma branch mixed doesn't remember it.
It is on a Santa Fe station plat last revised in 1962. I am trying to
determine if it could have been there during my May 1943 modeling
date. Was propane shipped via rail in 1943? Would propane have been
used as a fuel in rural Kansas at that time? Or, was the propane
jobber probably from the 1950s or 1960s?
Jared Harper
Athens, GA


John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Jared Harper" <harper-brown@...> wrote:
Would propane have been
used as a fuel in rural Kansas at that time?





Hello Jared,

From a quick web search, it looks like the Propane Marketers
Association of Kansas was founded in 1942.

Hope this is helpful,

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Andy Carlson
 

When I was a young adult (back in the early 70's) I was told in answer to my question as to why so many old butane tanks found in our area was that years earlier butane was a popular bottled gas, more so than propane.Propane's later arrival and eventual dominance obsoleted butane and butane distributorship.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai, CA

John Hile <john66h@...> wrote: --- In STMFC@..., "Jared Harper" <harper-brown@...> wrote:
> Would propane have been
> used as a fuel in rural Kansas at that time?

Hello Jared,

From a quick web search, it looks like the Propane Marketers
Association of Kansas was founded in 1942.

Hope this is helpful,

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

There are photos from the early 1940s of silver tanks on the freight station
platform at El Portal on the Yosemite Valley Railroad which I have assumed
were propane bottles. They are shaped similar to today's oxygen tanks but at
least twice as big. I figured that they were fuel for cooking in the hotels
in Yosemite National Park since there was no natural gas available in the
park and propane (or butane) would have been more desirable than coal. I had
also assumed that they were propane only because I wasn't familiar with
butane as a bottled gas...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@...>
 

In Kansas you must bury the Butane Tank or it would freeze solid in the winter time. When Propane came along Butane lost it's popularity because Propane did not freeze and the tank could be left sitting on top of the ground.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
Boca Raton FL 33434
My parents did not raise
any stupid children. They
sent the ten of us to the
neighbors to play and then
moved. They raised the four
of us that found them.

On Jun 14, 2008, at 9:19 PM, Andy Carlson wrote:

When I was a young adult (back in the early 70's) I was told in answer to my question as to why so many old butane tanks found in our area was that years earlier butane was a popular bottled gas, more so than propane.Propane's later arrival and eventual dominance obsoleted butane and butane distributorship.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai, CA

John Hile <john66h@...> wrote: --- In STMFC@..., "Jared Harper" <harper-brown@...> wrote:
Would propane have been
used as a fuel in rural Kansas at that time?
Hello Jared,

From a quick web search, it looks like the Propane Marketers
Association of Kansas was founded in 1942.

Hope this is helpful,

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA








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Schuyler Larrabee
 

So, Larry, did you deliver Butane or Propane? ;^)

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Larry Jackman
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 10:43 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Propane

In Kansas you must bury the Butane Tank or it would freeze solid in
the winter time. When Propane came along Butane lost its popularity
because Propane did not freeze and the tank could be left sitting on
top of the ground.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@... <mailto:ljack70117%40comcast.net>
Boca Raton FL 33434
My parents did not raise
any stupid children. They
sent the ten of us to the
neighbors to play and then
moved. They raised the four
of us that found them.

On Jun 14, 2008, at 9:19 PM, Andy Carlson wrote:

When I was a young adult (back in the early 70's) I was told in
answer to my question as to why so many old butane tanks found in
our area was that years earlier butane was a popular bottled gas,
more so than propane.Propane's later arrival and eventual dominance
obsoleted butane and butane distributorship.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai, CA

John Hile <john66h@... <mailto:john66h%40aol.com> > wrote: ---
In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jared Harper" <harper-brown@...>
wrote:
Would propane have been
used as a fuel in rural Kansas at that time?
Hello Jared,

From a quick web search, it looks like the Propane Marketers
Association of Kansas was founded in 1942.

Hope this is helpful,

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA









------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@...>
 

No I did not ever deliver it but my Grandfather and Grandmother used Propane until the natural gas main came through their area. I used Propane with my Bar-B-Q in the back yard. You had to be very careful because if you got a leak it it is heavier than air and would go under your house or down into your basement and soon you would have a big BANG.

BOOM

Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
Boca Raton FL 33434
I want to die in my sleep like
my grandfather did, not screaming
like the other people in his car.

On Jun 14, 2008, at 10:43 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

So, Larry, did you deliver Butane or Propane? ;^)

SGL


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Larry Jackman
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 10:43 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Propane

In Kansas you must bury the Butane Tank or it would freeze solid in
the winter time. When Propane came along Butane lost its popularity
because Propane did not freeze and the tank could be left sitting on
top of the ground.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@... <mailto:ljack70117%40comcast.net>
Boca Raton FL 33434
My parents did not raise
any stupid children. They
sent the ten of us to the
neighbors to play and then
moved. They raised the four
of us that found them.

On Jun 14, 2008, at 9:19 PM, Andy Carlson wrote:

When I was a young adult (back in the early 70's) I was told in
answer to my question as to why so many old butane tanks found in
our area was that years earlier butane was a popular bottled gas,
more so than propane.Propane's later arrival and eventual dominance
obsoleted butane and butane distributorship.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai, CA

John Hile <john66h@... <mailto:john66h%40aol.com> > wrote: ---
In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jared Harper" <harper-brown@...>
wrote:
Would propane have been
used as a fuel in rural Kansas at that time?
Hello Jared,

From a quick web search, it looks like the Propane Marketers
Association of Kansas was founded in 1942.

Hope this is helpful,

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA








------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Louis C. Whiteley <octoraro1@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Jared Harper" <harper-brown@...> wrote:
I don't know about Kansas, but Gas Oil Products (GOPX)had a facility in
Oxford (Chester County) Pennsylvania and in Miami, FL. Their first
four ICC105A300-W were built in 1943. Two more cars were built in 1944
and ten more in 1947. Their last two cars were built in 1952. The
fleet was back down to seven cars by 1953. The brand name on the tank
cars was "Naturol". I am indebted to Ed Hawkins for the detailed
information on these cars and a lead to the photos of the cars at the
St. Louis Mercantile Museum.

So, at least in Southestern Pennsylvania, propane was shipped by rail
in 1943.

In Oxford, there was a cluster of four vertical tanks (like Walthers'
McGraw Oil kit)where, I think, the Gas Oil facility was. Was propane
ever stored in such vertical tanks before the commonly seen cigar tube
tanks?

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ

Was propane shipped via rail in 1943? Would propane have been
used as a fuel in rural Kansas at that time? Or, was the propane
jobber probably from the 1950s or 1960s?
Jared Harper
Athens, GA


Jared Harper <harper-brown@...>
 

Are there any 1943 era propane cars available in HO?
Jared Harper
Athens, GA

--- In STMFC@..., "Louis C. Whiteley" <octoraro1@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Jared Harper" <harper-brown@> wrote:
I don't know about Kansas, but Gas Oil Products (GOPX)had a facility
in
Oxford (Chester County) Pennsylvania and in Miami, FL. Their first
four ICC105A300-W were built in 1943. Two more cars were built in
1944
and ten more in 1947. Their last two cars were built in 1952. The
fleet was back down to seven cars by 1953. The brand name on the
tank
cars was "Naturol".


LOUIS WHITELEY <octoraro1@...>
 

The Atlas 11,000 gallon cars are, according to Mr. Hawkins, close to the 1947- and 1952-built cars. In 1943, he said, the tanks and frames were four feet longer and the tanks were smaller in diameter -- more like the Type 27 ACF tank cars.


Jared Harper <harper-brown@...> wrote:
Are there any 1943 era propane cars available in HO?
Jared Harper
Athens, GA

--- In STMFC@..., "Louis C. Whiteley" <octoraro1@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Jared Harper" <harper-brown@> wrote:
I don't know about Kansas, but Gas Oil Products (GOPX)had a facility
in
Oxford (Chester County) Pennsylvania and in Miami, FL. Their first
four ICC105A300-W were built in 1943. Two more cars were built in
1944
and ten more in 1947. Their last two cars were built in 1952. The
fleet was back down to seven cars by 1953. The brand name on the
tank
cars was "Naturol".


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 15, 2008, at 7:15 PM, Jared Harper wrote:

Are there any 1943 era propane cars available in HO?

Jared, the only plastic HO scale model that's even close in
dimensions and proportion is the Athearn "chemical" tank car, and
aside from the crudeness that characterizes all of the early Athearn
"blue box" freight cars, it has a "dome" (actually, valve casing, as
LPG cars did not have domes) and dome platform/railings which are way
too large. Precision Scale has what appears to be an LPG car valve
casing in their catalog that might work as a replacement (their
#HO-31005), or you could use the valve casing from one of the Atlas
models if you could find an extra tank, and you could do away with
the platform and railings entirely, as many prototype cars didn't
have them. The other option would be Overland's brass import
OMI-3028, which represents a ca. 1936 AC&F car without platform and
railings as built for Shippers Car Line, Warren, Shell, Phillips,
etc. from the mid-1930s through the early '40s. I have numerous
photos of these cars if you can figure out who was the most likely
supplier (or lessor to the supplier) of LPG to the LPG depot on the
Alma branch.

Richard Hendrickson