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UP flat car
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From the C.R. Savage collection at byu
http://contentdm.byu.edu/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/Savage&CISOPTR=1182&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=3600&DMHEIGHT=2600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&REC=20&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0 Tim O'
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brianehni <behni@...>
--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:
CISOROOT=/Savage&CISOPTR=1182&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=3600&DMHEIGHT=2600&D MX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&REC=20&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0 Looking at the locomotive road number plastered across the tender, I will have to remember to bite my tongue in the future when I see similar paint jobs! Brian Ehni
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Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
Tim,
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A very cool photo. Thanks for sharing it with us. Did you notice that the car with the two men sitting on it is from the St. Joseph & Grand Island? That has to be even rarer than the UP car. Kind regards, Garth G. Groff timboconnor@... wrote:
From the C.R. Savage collection at byuhttp://contentdm.byu.edu/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/Savage&CISOPTR=1182&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=3600&DMHEIGHT=2600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&REC=20&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0
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Richard Hendrickson
On Jun 20, 2008, at 7:47 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:
Garth, the SJ&GI was a wholly-owned UP subsidiary and its equipment was listed under the UP in the ORERs (as was the equipment of the O- WR&N, OSL, and LA&SL). Richard Hendrickson
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Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
Richard,
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Absolutely, a UP subsidiary! I'm not a UP maven, but I was told that in later years (like the 1950s) the only St.J&GI-marked car was a wooden caboose. Do you have any idea when the St.J&GI revenue equipment disappeared from the ORERs? For that matter, when did the UP reletter the cars from their other subsidiaries? Kind regards, Garth G. Groff Richard Hendrickson wrote:
On Jun 20, 2008, at 7:47 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:
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Richard Hendrickson
On Jun 20, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:
Absolutely, a UP subsidiary! I'm not a UP maven, but I was told In the mid-to-late 1940s, the UP's ORER entries listed two 34' St.J&GI box cars. They were gone by 1950. According to the late Terry Metcalfe's landmark UP freight car book, the initials of subsidiaries OSL, OWR&N, and LA&SL were used as reporting marks until March, 1958. On cars painted or repainted after that date, the reporting marks became UP but the initials of the subsidiary lines were stenciled in 4" characters at the upper left corner of the sides. Richard Hendrickson
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Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
Richard, what exactly do you mean by "used as reporting marks until March, 1958"? My 1961 ORER lists several car series as O-WR&N and OSL. These weren't the 4-inch markings were they?
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KL
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson According to the late Terry Metcalfe's landmark UP freight car book, the initials of subsidiaries OSL, OWR&N, and LA&SL were used as reporting marks until March, 1958. On cars painted or repainted after that date, the reporting marks became UP but the initials of the subsidiary lines were stenciled in 4" characters at the upper left corner of the sides.
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Richard Townsend
FWIW, there's a restored St.J.&G.I. caboose in someone's yard in Niwot, Colorado.
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Richard Townsend Lincoln City, Oregon
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 1:57 pm Subject: Re: [STMFC] UP flat car On Jun 20, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote: Absolutely, a UP subsidiary! I'm not a UP maven, but I was toldIn the mid-to-late 1940s, the UP's ORER entries listed two 34' St.J&GI box cars. They were gone by 1950. According to the late Terry Metcalfe's landmark UP freight car book, the initials of subsidiaries OSL, OWR&N, and LA&SL were used as reporting marks until March, 1958. On cars painted or repainted after that date, the reporting marks became UP but the initials of the subsidiary lines were stenciled in 4" characters at the upper left corner of the sides. Richard Hendrickson
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Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
Kurt, The important point of Richard's post was "On cars painted or
repainted after that date, the reporting marks became UP." Odds are the cars hadn't found there way to a paint shop yet. This was a common occurrence consolidation of lines and mergers. It took many years for the NKP to repaint all the WLE rolling stock, and since my ORER's don't go beyond 1959, I am not even certain they were complete by the N&W merger. There was always freight to haul, so if the paint was in good shape the car didn't get painted. Also, for boxcars it may have been a few years before a car that was sent off-line returned. Brian J Carlson P.E. Cheektowaga NY
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Richard Hendrickson
On Jun 20, 2008, at 2:30 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:
Richard, what exactly do you mean by "used as reporting marks until The changeover was begun in March, 1958, but of course there were many cars in service at that time with OWR&N, OSL, and LA&SL reporting marks, and those cars lasted (in diminishing numbers) for many years after that until they were repainted and re-stenciled. I'm not aware that the UP ever had a program to paint out the subsidiary lines' reporting marks and replace them with UP and the 4" stenciling on cars that did not require repainting. Richard Hendrickson
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Some late "Be Specific" box cars (1956-1957) received UP
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reporting marks, while their ownership by OSL or OWR&N was indicated by a stencil in the upper left hand corner on the car side. Most (if not all) of the cars so lettered were never repainted or relettered. I have a 1994 shot of a company service box with the OSL stencil in the corner. Tim O'Connor
The changeover was begun in March, 1958, but of course there were
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rwitt_2000
Tim O'Connor wrote:
http://contentdm.byu.edu/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/Savage&CISOPTR=1\; 182&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=3600&DMHEIGHT=2600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&REC=20&DM\ THUMB=1&DMROTATE=0 This is a freight list and there have been interesting observations about the flatcars. FWIW, to me it looks like the flats were carrying ballast as part of a flood recovery efforts on the UP at Ogden. The track to the bridge and that in the foreground look newly installed. Tim, do you know the date of the photo? Bob Witt
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Schuyler Larrabee
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-----Original Message-----http://contentdm.byu.edu/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/Savage&CISOPTR=1182&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=3600 &DMHEIGHT=2600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&REC=20&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0 <http://contentdm.byu.edu/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/Savage&CISOPTR=1182&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=360 0&DMHEIGHT=2600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&REC=20&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0> That's a very interesting shot. Not necessarily for the flat car, but for a lot of other stuff. My eye was first caught by the bridge at extreme left. A wood Bollman truss (don't shoot me if that's misidentified) with a reinforcing arch? That's unusual, especially since the "arch" has a rather unusual "wiggle" in it. Secondly, that is one hell of a depot in the background, easily the largest building for miles, has to be. Second largest is that freight house. I disagree with the flood cleanup idea, this all looks like "recently constructed" to me. That roundhouse is brand new, isn't it? Stock cars above the steel truss bridge. Locomotive caught "at speed" in the background ("at speed" for the speed of the film, anyway). And then there's the mountains . . . Good stuff, thanks for the link. SGL
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Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Brian J Carlson Kurt, The important point of Richard's post was "On cars painted or repainted after that date, the reporting marks became UP." Odds are the cars hadn't found there way to a paint shop yet. This was a common occurrence consolidation of lines and mergers. ----- Original Message ----- Yeah, I figured that initially, but Richard's quote was: ". . .the initials of subsidiaries OSL, OWR&N, and LA&SL were used as reporting marks until March, 1958. On cars painted or repainted after that date, the reporting marks became UP . . ." which said to me that in April 1958 these marks were no longer valid, even though they still existed on cars until much later. What he apparently meant was that they stopped *being applied to cars* in March 1958. KL
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Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
Mr. Moderator: Tim O'C should be severely admonished for imposing a photo subject on this august list that is most definitely out of scope. The subject matter is considerably prior to the 1900 backwards cutoff of this list.
Shame! Denny Denny S. Anspach MD Sacramento
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Charlie Vlk
Would it not be possible that those flat cars would have survived in work train service, and thus
sneak in under the wire, thereby saving Tim from being put on short rations in the Moderator's Jail Cell? Charlie Vlk Mr. Moderator: Tim O'C should be severely admonished for imposing a photo subject on this august list that is most definitely out of scope. The subject matter is considerably prior to the 1900 backwards cutoff of this list. Shame! Denny Denny S. Anspach MD Sacramento .
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Lars Svanevik <svanevil@...>
I noticed that the shop date on the Union Pacific flat car appears to be Februrary 14,1896. So close, but...
Lars. ________________________________ From: STMFC@... on behalf of Denny Anspach Sent: Fri 6/20/2008 7:33 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: UP flat car Mr. Moderator: Tim O'C should be severely admonished for imposing a photo subject on this august list that is most definitely out of scope. The subject matter is considerably prior to the 1900 backwards cutoff of this list. Shame! Denny Denny S. Anspach MD Sacramento
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Bob
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No. The collection has the photo dated "circa 1870" which is clearly wrong. I can't make out the date on the flat car but it looks like an 1890's date. Does anyone know when that depot in Ogden was built? Tim
FWIW, to me it looks like the flats were carrying ballast as part of a
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Tim O'Connor wrote:
No. The collection has the photo dated "circa 1870" which is clearly wrong. I can't make out the date on the flat car but it looks like an 1890's date. Does anyone know when that depot in Ogden was built?It is common for museum and archive photos to have "dates" attached to them which are years or even decades wrong, based on evidence right in the photo itself, such as reweigh (not shop) dates. Two lessons to learn: first, don't trust those "official" dates unless you can verify them, and second, tell the good folks at that archive about reweigh dates. Usually they will thank you profusely. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor Does anyone know when that depot in Ogden was built? ----- Original Message ----- July 1889, according to: http://utahrails.net/ogden/ogden-ourd.php The photo is looking south east. The foreground tracks are the Utah Central, later the OSL. The wooden road bridge carries what started as a wagon road, then a county road, then Exchange Avenue. It joined with the 24th Street, an E-W thoroughfare that ended just about where the stock cars are sitting. Going from right to left (S to N) you have the Union Depot Hotel with the twin peaked roofs and smokestack. The hotel also housed the Rio Grande Express, Wells Fargo Express, and Pacific Express agencies. Next is the Union Passenger Depot (with cupola). The low building behind the passenger train locomotive is the RR "supply house" with the coal bin doors visible. The windowless building with three cupolas is the ice house. The tanks in the middle foreground are at the Continental Oil Co. In the background behind is the UP (south) and SP (north) joint freight house. The oil company was shown on 1906 maps (albeit with a slightly different building arrangement), but not on the 1890 edition. HTH, KL
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