Topics

Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)

Charles Hladik
 

Paul,
I have been using plain old "lacquer thinner" with no problem.


Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division
NMRA L5756



**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

paulbizier <pa.bizier@...>
 

Way back, there was a major discussion of thinners for Floquil paints,
but I didn't see an answer to this. I'm caught this weekend with a
couple of freight car models to paint, the appropriate Floquil paints,
but no Dio-sol...

Does Scalecoat II thinner work? Or something else readily available
at the local big box store?

Paul Bizier

John F. Pautz <jfpautz@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "paulbizier" <pa.bizier@...> wrote:

Way back, there was a major discussion of thinners for Floquil paints,
but I didn't see an answer to this. I'm caught this weekend with a
couple of freight car models to paint, the appropriate Floquil paints,
but no Dio-sol...

Does Scalecoat II thinner work? Or something else readily available
at the local big box store?

Paul Bizier
Paul,

Scalecoat will not work, Diosol is approximatly equal parts zylene and
toluene, if I recall correctly.

John F. Pautz
American Switch & Signal
P:48 track components

James Kubanick <kuban@...>
 

I have been using Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone (MEK) as a thinner for Floquil paints for many years. Sometimes I use a 50/50 blend of MEK and Toluene. I find both solvents at the local Ace Hardware store - sometimes at Lowes.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown, WV

----- Original Message -----
From: paulbizier
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)


Way back, there was a major discussion of thinners for Floquil paints,
but I didn't see an answer to this. I'm caught this weekend with a
couple of freight car models to paint, the appropriate Floquil paints,
but no Dio-sol...

Does Scalecoat II thinner work? Or something else readily available
at the local big box store?

Paul Bizier



!DSPAM:485da05c19689715914251!

rfederle@...
 

Has anyone had any issues with any of these solvents attacking the plastic or resin (or other materials used in modeling)?

Robert Federle
---- James Kubanick <kuban@...> wrote:

I have been using Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone (MEK) as a thinner for Floquil paints for many years. Sometimes I use a 50/50 blend of MEK and Toluene. I find both solvents at the local Ace Hardware store - sometimes at Lowes.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown, WV

----- Original Message -----
From: paulbizier
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)


Way back, there was a major discussion of thinners for Floquil paints,
but I didn't see an answer to this. I'm caught this weekend with a
couple of freight car models to paint, the appropriate Floquil paints,
but no Dio-sol...

Does Scalecoat II thinner work? Or something else readily available
at the local big box store?

Paul Bizier



!DSPAM:485da05c19689715914251!


deltamodels@...
 

Floquil now has what they call a universal thinner on in pt. sizes.
It is very similar to what testors use for there military master colors line.
I suspect that they have changed the RR colors formula to match the other paints.
I hve used this with great results as compaired to Diosol.

bill

-----Original Message-----
From: John F. Pautz <jfpautz@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 5:54 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)






--- In STMFC@..., "paulbizier" <pa.bizier@...> wrote:

Way back, there was a major discussion of thinners for Floquil paints,
but I didn't see an answer to this. I'm caught this weekend with a
couple of freight car models to paint, the appropriate Floquil paints,
but no Dio-sol...

Does Scalecoat II thinner work? Or something else readily available
at the local big box store?

Paul Bizier
Paul,

Scalecoat will not work, Diosol is approximatly equal parts zylene and
toluene, if I recall correctly.

John F. Pautz
American Switch & Signal
P:48 track components

Jared Harper <harper-brown@...>
 

I, and several people I know, use laquer thinner with the old Floquil.
Jared Harper
Athens, GA

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Paul,
It really depends upon how old your paint is.
If it is newer Floquil it will say on the bottle that it contains
"petroleum distillates" which means thinners for enamels or good old
household "paint thinner" will work. Older paint will indicate that it
contains xylene at which time lacquer thinner will work very nicely.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., "paulbizier" <pa.bizier@...> wrote:

Way back, there was a major discussion of thinners for Floquil paints,
but I didn't see an answer to this. I'm caught this weekend with a
couple of freight car models to paint, the appropriate Floquil paints,
but no Dio-sol...

Does Scalecoat II thinner work? Or something else readily available
at the local big box store?

Paul Bizier

Donald B. Valentine
 

I hope Andy Miller jumps in on this because I gave up on Floquil paints over thirty years ago as not worth the hassle. At that time we used plain old lacquer thinner without any problem but I don't know how much the composition of Floquil paints has changed in the interim. I believe a very little acetone was added the last time a batch of thinner was made up and that seemed to do a better job. Zylene may act muct the same way. There are plenty of things cheaper and better than Dio-sol that will do the job, however, and perhaps Andy Sperandeo can recall what the composotion of these various thinners listed in MR some years back was.
 
Don Valentine

Andy Miller <aslmmiller@...>
 

JUMP

Several others have alreay responded on this, but since yoiu asked me ---I still use laquer thinner for Floquil. The MIT Club keeps a gallon can of it at the painting booth for anyone painting with Floquil. The gallon can cost a little less than a 2 oz bottle of Dio-sol and seems to work just as well ! Hey, I wonder if I can run my SUV on it ;-) You also don't feels so bad using lots of it to clean your air brush.

regards,
Andy Miller

----- Original Message -----
From: Don Valentine
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:38 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)


I hope Andy Miller jumps in on this because I gave up on Floquil paints over thirty years ago as not worth the hassle. At that time we used plain old lacquer thinner without any problem but I don't know how much the composition of Floquil paints has changed in the interim. I believe a very little acetone was added the last time a batch of thinner was made up and that seemed to do a better job. Zylene may act muct the same way. There are plenty of things cheaper and better than Dio-sol that will do the job, however, and perhaps Andy Sperandeo can recall what the composotion of these various thinners listed in MR some years back was.

Don Valentine

Don Worthy
 

Andy, I'm with you. I've always used Laquer thinner and never had a problem even on plastic.
Don Worthy
Ivey, Ga.

--- On Sun, 6/22/08, Andy Miller <aslmmiller@...> wrote:

From: Andy Miller <aslmmiller@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 10:42 AM






JUMP

Several others have alreay responded on this, but since yoiu asked me ---I still use laquer thinner for Floquil. The MIT Club keeps a gallon can of it at the painting booth for anyone painting with Floquil. The gallon can cost a little less than a 2 oz bottle of Dio-sol and seems to work just as well ! Hey, I wonder if I can run my SUV on it ;-) You also don't feels so bad using lots of it to clean your air brush.

regards,
Andy Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Valentine
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:38 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)

I hope Andy Miller jumps in on this because I gave up on Floquil paints over thirty years ago as not worth the hassle. At that time we used plain old lacquer thinner without any problem but I don't know how much the composition of Floquil paints has changed in the interim. I believe a very little acetone was added the last time a batch of thinner was made up and that seemed to do a better job. Zylene may act muct the same way. There are plenty of things cheaper and better than Dio-sol that will do the job, however, and perhaps Andy Sperandeo can recall what the composotion of these various thinners listed in MR some years back was.

Don Valentine

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., <rfederle@...> wrote:

Has anyone had any issues with any of these solvents attacking the
plastic or resin (or other materials used in modeling)?

Robert Federle
To heck with the plastic! Will any of these liquids attack my lungs
or nervous system? Just kidding :) about the plastic but not about
me.

My paint booth exhausts to outside and the motor is outside the air
path. I can tell by the smell, though, that the exhaust fan doesn't
exhaust everything. Will a paint respirator be adequate?

So far Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone (MEK), Toluene, Zylene and laquer thinner
have been mentioned. All are flamable, are they not? I know these
will kill me or at least cause cancer in California but what about in
the other 49 states?

I am sitting on a large stash of old formula Floquil, all of which
seems to be OK. I would like to use it up. I can no longer find
Floquil Barrier. Is there a substitute for that?

Gene Green
Out in the west Texas town of El Paso

CJ Riley
 

I never found the need for Barrier when spraying. Once the first light spray dries (almost instantly), the plastic seems protected from the effects of future coats. Used Floquil for more than 30 years with no problems (on models or me).

CJ Riley

--- On Sun, 6/22/08, Gene Green <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

From: Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 9:34 AM
--- In STMFC@..., <rfederle@...> wrote:

Has anyone had any issues with any of these solvents
attacking the
plastic or resin (or other materials used in modeling)?

Robert Federle
To heck with the plastic! Will any of these liquids attack
my lungs
or nervous system? Just kidding :) about the plastic but
not about
me.

My paint booth exhausts to outside and the motor is outside
the air
path. I can tell by the smell, though, that the exhaust
fan doesn't
exhaust everything. Will a paint respirator be adequate?

So far Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone (MEK), Toluene, Zylene and
laquer thinner
have been mentioned. All are flamable, are they not? I
know these
will kill me or at least cause cancer in California but
what about in
the other 49 states?

I am sitting on a large stash of old formula Floquil, all
of which
seems to be OK. I would like to use it up. I can no
longer find
Floquil Barrier. Is there a substitute for that?

Gene Green
Out in the west Texas town of El Paso

Rod Miller
 

Hi Gene,

My experience matches that of many others who have
sprayed plastic with solvent-based paints: no problems.
I think problems could arise from wet paint sitting for
a long time on the plastic; that shouldn't occur with
properly mixed paints (paint, thinner, retarder)
applied with good painting technique.

Yes, some of the chemicals mentioned below will attack
your lungs and nervous system no matter where you come
in contact with them.

On the subject of personal safety, IMHO you can't be
too careful. I don a respirator before opening paint/
thinner, take it off when the last container is
closed, log the time used, and toss the filters after
40 hours. Wear appropriate gloves, don't get lacquer
thinner on your skin, as your skin absorbs it.

I'm a real chicken around those chemicals. Respirator,
gloves, no flames/sparks, spray outside, get all
residue of the painting activity (mixing cups, paper
towels, etc.) out of the room ASAP when done. IIRC
MEK isn't dangerous, but I treat 'em all the same
because that's simpler than remembering different
treatment techniques for different chemicals.

Xylol/Xylene is a thinner for the older solvent-based
floquil, and can be purchased for IIRC ~ $2 a pint at
Ace Hardware.

There is a yahoogroups named modelairbrush where advice
on spray painting is available. IIRC some good painting
info has also be put forth on the scratchbuilding
yahoogroup.

Rod

Gene Green wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., <rfederle@...> wrote:
Has anyone had any issues with any of these solvents attacking the
plastic or resin (or other materials used in modeling)?
Robert Federle
To heck with the plastic! Will any of these liquids attack my lungs or nervous system? Just kidding :) about the plastic but not about me. My paint booth exhausts to outside and the motor is outside the air path. I can tell by the smell, though, that the exhaust fan doesn't exhaust everything. Will a paint respirator be adequate?
So far Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone (MEK), Toluene, Zylene and laquer thinner have been mentioned. All are flamable, are they not? I know these will kill me or at least cause cancer in California but what about in the other 49 states?
I am sitting on a large stash of old formula Floquil, all of which seems to be OK. I would like to use it up. I can no longer find Floquil Barrier. Is there a substitute for that?
Gene Green
Out in the west Texas town of El Paso
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

Bruce Smith
 

Rob,

Given that MEK is an excellent plastic cement that "welds" plastic joints
by softening the plastic? Yeah, you could have problems <G>. Sprayed
lightly, in many coats, I'm sure you can get away with it, but heavy
handed technique and a long list of modelers who have ruined models says
that certainly one ought to be VERY careful about using any of these
solvents on plastic. And since there are excellent plastic compatible
paints... why go through the hassle? I do use enamels, but mainly on
brass, where they excel for their adhesion, and I stick to acrylics for
plastic, where the alcohol solvents are quite safe.

Regardless of the paint, I always wear gloves and a respirator (with both
activated charcoal and a particulate filter) and I use a home-made booth
with a couple of bathroom fans providing the draft. WHAT? you say, no
explosion proof motors?? Nope! As we proved a number of years ago on
another list, you cannot achieve the minimum concentration of vapor with
an airbrush in a paint booth to cause an explosion, so that whole thing
about explosion proof motors is based on ignorance and legend.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Sat, June 21, 2008 8:23 pm, rfederle@... wrote:
Has anyone had any issues with any of these solvents attacking the plastic
or resin (or other materials used in modeling)?

Robert Federle
---- James Kubanick <kuban@...> wrote:
I have been using Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone (MEK) as a thinner for Floquil
paints for many years. Sometimes I use a 50/50 blend of MEK and Toluene.
I find both solvents at the local Ace Hardware store - sometimes at
Lowes.

Jim Kubanick

rfederle@...
 

Thanks Bruce, CJ, Gene, Rod and others,

I have learned quite a bit and I see the topic has shifted somewhat to personnal safety. I would suggest reading the Material Safety Data Sheet for the chemical that you are about to use to see what precautions are needed and what the long term exposure limits are. If you use a respirator with cartridges for particulate as well as organic vapors your lungs should be safe as you are not doing commercial quantity painting (I would assume).

Getting back to the damage of materials, I think it might be best, if possible, test an obscure area first to see what happens, if anything.

Thanks again guys, very interesting input.

Robert Federle
---- Bruce Smith <@smithbf> wrote:

Rob,

Given that MEK is an excellent plastic cement that "welds" plastic joints
by softening the plastic? Yeah, you could have problems <G>. Sprayed
lightly, in many coats, I'm sure you can get away with it, but heavy
handed technique and a long list of modelers who have ruined models says
that certainly one ought to be VERY careful about using any of these
solvents on plastic. And since there are excellent plastic compatible
paints... why go through the hassle? I do use enamels, but mainly on
brass, where they excel for their adhesion, and I stick to acrylics for
plastic, where the alcohol solvents are quite safe.

Regardless of the paint, I always wear gloves and a respirator (with both
activated charcoal and a particulate filter) and I use a home-made booth
with a couple of bathroom fans providing the draft. WHAT? you say, no
explosion proof motors?? Nope! As we proved a number of years ago on
another list, you cannot achieve the minimum concentration of vapor with
an airbrush in a paint booth to cause an explosion, so that whole thing
about explosion proof motors is based on ignorance and legend.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Sat, June 21, 2008 8:23 pm, rfederle@... wrote:
Has anyone had any issues with any of these solvents attacking the plastic
or resin (or other materials used in modeling)?

Robert Federle
---- James Kubanick <kuban@...> wrote:
I have been using Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone (MEK) as a thinner for Floquil
paints for many years. Sometimes I use a 50/50 blend of MEK and Toluene.
I find both solvents at the local Ace Hardware store - sometimes at
Lowes.

Jim Kubanick

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Contrary (as I often am) to some of the lack of concern about damaging models with lacquer or Floquil sprayed on plastic models . . .

It all depends on the model. Spraying an Atheran Blue Box model with it's nice thick sections of plastic for steps and underframes and all that . . . sure, no trouble. Except possibly a rough surface if you spray too dry, or if you spray way too wet, and get a bit of reaction between solvent and model.

But if you're talking about a finely detailed, scale-sized add-ons on a first-class model you've been slaving over for months, well, be more careful. Spraying on "an obscure part" of the model won't necessarily show you what will happen when the 1x2 plastic strips you added get hit with the paint. I have had a model of trusswork, made with Evergreen strips, pretty much disintegrate in my hands after spraying it. It took a lot of paint to cover all the various angles, enough so the small strips, 1x2, 1x3 and so on, just broke apart.

SGL

rfederle@...
 

Thanks Schuyler,

Hadn't thought of those finer details, point well taken.

Robert Federle
---- Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

Contrary (as I often am) to some of the lack of concern about damaging models with lacquer or Floquil sprayed on plastic models . . .

It all depends on the model. Spraying an Atheran Blue Box model with it's nice thick sections of plastic for steps and underframes and all that . . . sure, no trouble. Except possibly a rough surface if you spray too dry, or if you spray way too wet, and get a bit of reaction between solvent and model.

But if you're talking about a finely detailed, scale-sized add-ons on a first-class model you've been slaving over for months, well, be more careful. Spraying on "an obscure part" of the model won't necessarily show you what will happen when the 1x2 plastic strips you added get hit with the paint. I have had a model of trusswork, made with Evergreen strips, pretty much disintegrate in my hands after spraying it. It took a lot of paint to cover all the various angles, enough so the small strips, 1x2, 1x3 and so on, just broke apart.

SGL

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Lacquer thinner works equally well with both old (square bottle) Floquil and new (round bottle) Floquil, and lacquer thinners have been my default thinners over the lives of both paints since the '50s. I have a large cache of square bottles, and I use both Diosol and thinner without any discernible resulting differences.

Since one can no longer purchase the wide range of lacquer thinner qualities that once filled the shelves of automotive paint supply houses, I will now on occasion now just use each paint suppliers own thinner formulations.

The advice to use ordinary household paint thinners for the new Floquil would seem to promise disaster.

Denny


Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento

Adrian Hundhausen
 

MEK is my plastic solvent that I use as liquid cement on styrene. I
sure wouldn't then go and spray it on my models as a paint thinner!

Adrian Hundhausen--- In STMFC@..., "James Kubanick"
<kuban@...> wrote:

I have been using Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone (MEK) as a thinner for
Floquil paints for many years. Sometimes I use a 50/50 blend of MEK
and Toluene. I find both solvents at the local Ace Hardware store -
sometimes at Lowes.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown, WV

----- Original Message -----
From: paulbizier
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Floquil thinner (way-back machine...)


Way back, there was a major discussion of thinners for Floquil
paints,
but I didn't see an answer to this. I'm caught this weekend with a
couple of freight car models to paint, the appropriate Floquil
paints,
but no Dio-sol...

Does Scalecoat II thinner work? Or something else readily
available
at the local big box store?

Paul Bizier



!DSPAM:485da05c19689715914251!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]