#### paper density

rhass <rhass@...>

Malcom,
It depends on what kind of paper your mill is making.
Tissue 12-25# cu ft
Fine paper 48# cu ft
Kraft paper 54# cu ft
Coated book paper 69# cu ft
Glassine 86# cu ft

Add the variables of dia. and length of the rolls being shipped and how they'll fit into a boxcar (shipped on end so the rolls won't get a flat spot) and the car ratio can be all over the place. Tissue is the exception it would be converted on site.

Pulp bales are 32"x24"x20" and weigh about 400# (50# cu ft) so a little math will give you how many tons per car.

Russ Hass

water.kresse@...

Did they have to keep the "clay dry bulk hops" in a pool to avoid contamination?

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "rhass" <rhass@pennswoods.net>
Malcom,
It depends on what kind of paper your mill is making.
Tissue 12-25# cu ft
Fine paper 48# cu ft
Kraft paper 54# cu ft
Coated book paper 69# cu ft
Glassine 86# cu ft

Add the variables of dia. and length of the rolls being shipped and how they'll fit into a boxcar (shipped on end so the rolls won't get a flat spot) and the car ratio can be all over the place. Tissue is the exception it would be converted on site.

Pulp bales are 32"x24"x20" and weigh about 400# (50# cu ft) so a little math will give you how many tons per car.

Russ Hass

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>

Thanks Don and Russ for the input. From their density information and other stuff that I've found, it looks like 50 tons of paper would reuquire a box car of about 5555 cubic feet - much more than any car of the 50's. Can someone tell me what were the typical inside dimensions of 40 ft' box cars of that period.

Also what are typical heights and diameters of paper rolls. Would around 3'3" diameter and four foot height be in the ball park. For 50#/cu ft paper in rolls 3'4" in diameter in a 10 by 40 ID car, (30 rolls) it would take 63" high rolls to get 50 tons in a car. But that assumes the rolls are exactly the right size to be loaded the full width and length of the car. That four foot roll would allow only 38 tons in a car.

As for pulp, given a floor area of 400 ft. and a low density pulp at 25#, 50 tons would be only five feet high.

This leads me to the conclusion that if we assume a 1:1 tonnage ratio of paper to pulp, we're sure to need more cars outbound than inbound, perhaps a 5:4 ratio.

I'm going to assume that we're shipping kraft paper in rolls that can tolerate the same grade of car as the inbound pulp. After making an allowance for interior damage, bad orders, imbalance of input an out put, etc., I'm going to assume I can reload 75 % of the inbound cars.

So for each ten carloads of paper shipped, I'll have eight carloads of pulp arriving, two pulp cars leaving empty and four clean cars supplied by the railroad.

I'm assuming that kaolin, starch and other such stuff will have enough of a dust problem that those cars will need to go the cleaning track before being loaded again.

Tim O'Connor

Malcolm

You should check with club members before making such assumptions.
The whole point of the pulp-->paper mill is that it produces fine quality,
coated papers. A kraft mill or newsprint mill would be far larger, consume
vast quantities of sulfuric acid and other chemicals, and would not receive
pulp but would receive vast amounts of pulpwood and wood chips.

The mill is located on the Southern railway, and the C&LE only brings
inbound loads of pulp from New England in 40 ft box cars. The Southern
brings in kaolin and takes out the finished products.

Tim O'

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@yahoo.com>

I'm going to assume that we're shipping kraft paper in rolls that can tolerate
the same grade of car as the inbound pulp. After making an allowance for
interior damage, bad orders, imbalance of input an out put, etc., I'm going to
assume I can reload 75 % of the inbound cars.

Ian Cranstone

On 1-Jul-08, at 11:34 AM, Malcolm Laughlin wrote:
Thanks Don and Russ for the input. From their density information and other stuff that I've found, it looks like 50 tons of paper would reuquire a box car of about 5555 cubic feet - much more than any car of the 50's. Can someone tell me what were the typical inside dimensions of 40 ft' box cars of that period.
Canadian National Railways and Ontario Northland, both major players in the paper business, utilized their large fleet of 10' (3712 cu. ft.) and 10'6" (3900 cu. ft.) inside height cars for this purpose (CNR would have used more of the latter, whereas ONR only had 10' IH cars). It would be 1964 before CN moved to 50' cars of 11' IH/5092 cu. ft., which became the new standard for this service.

Ian Cranstone
lamontc@nakina.net
http://freightcars.nakina.net
http://siberians.nakina.net

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>

First, my apology to the group for a big misstatement that should have been obvious to me and was based on a calculation error. 3700 cubic feet of paper at 60# / cu.ft. is 111 tons.
If you had rolls of the right diameter and height to completely fill that car, using a factor of pi/4 to account for the circular rolls, you get about 80 tons.
-----------------------------

, it looks like 50 tons of paper
would reuquire a box car of about 5555 cubic feet - much more than
any car of the 50's. Can someone tell me what were the typical
inside dimensions of 40 ft' box cars of that period.
=========
Canadian National Railways and Ontario Northland, both major players in the paper business, utilized their large fleet of 10' (3712 cu. ft.) and 10'6" (3900 cu. ft.) inside height cars for this purpose (CNR would have used more of the latter, whereas ONR only had 10' IH cars). It would be 1964 before CN moved to 50' cars of 11' IH/5092 cu. ft., which became the new standard for this service.
--------------

But what about in the 50's when ordinary box cars had 50 tons capacity ? When did they start to use 70 ton cars ? Rolls of four foot wide 60# paper stacked two high would put 72 tons on a 10 x 40 floor area if the rolls had a diameter of 3'4" with zero space between rolls.

Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>

As far as which roads handle the traffic in and out of the paper company, that's something Tim and I can discuss with our club. But Tim does stimulate a few thoughts that are pertinent to this list.
Posted by: timboconnor@comcast.net > The whole point of the pulp-->paper mill is that it produces fine quality, coated papers. A kraft mill or newsprint mill would be far larger, consume vast quantities of sulfuric acid and other chemicals, and would not receive pulp but would receive vast amounts of pulpwood and wood chips.
------------------------------

I'd overlooked that, but it sure makes sense. Some of the paper is being shipped to a publishing company on our own railroad. So are there any ingredients that might arrive by rail in tank cars for the pulp to quality paper process.
===================

> The mill is located on the Southern railway, and the C&LE only brings inbound loads of pulp from New England in 40 ft box cars. The Southern brings in kaolin and takes out the finished products.
----------------

The mill is in one of the corners of the junction of the Southern and C&LE railroads. That would indicate that the paper company, although it is switched by the SOU, could use either route for its outbound loads. That's one of the reasons that big industries wanted to locate where they could have access to two or more line haul carriers.

But the origin of the pulp is an interesting question. I was assuming the pulp would come from somewhere in the southeast. But then it may be that the pulp needed is of the sort that comes only from spieces of trees that grow in cooler climates. Was much pulp from NH and NE shipped to Virginia and other states that far from Maine ?

That would give us a good reason to have a bunch of MEC and B&M box cars.

Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478

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