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  2. Location of this scene?

Location of this scene?

Tim O'Connor
 

I'm guessing New Jersey somewhere... that Blue Ridge
coal and oil dealer may be a clue.

http://www.first-out.com/ebay/0726104.jpg

Tim O'Connor
Andy Miller <aslmmiller@...>
 

I think this may be the Bronx. We are looking over the Harlem River. There appear to be skyscrapers (Emp State bldg and Chrysler bldg?) in the distance.

Andy Miller

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:20 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Location of this scene?


I'm guessing New Jersey somewhere... that Blue Ridge
coal and oil dealer may be a clue.

http://www.first-out.com/ebay/0726104.jpg

Tim O'Connor
Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Jeez, Andy, did any part of the Bronx ever look that bad? But I
cannot tell for certain whether the skyscraper showing is the Crysler
Building or the Empire State, though it looks more like the latter.
Which of the two is further north? You would know that better than I
and that might give us the direction in which we are looking. If it
is the Empire State or the Crysler building taken from the Bronx why
is it that more skyscrapers do not who to the left (south) of it?
Note, too, the Borden milk processing plant to the front and right
of the uncertain skyscraper. The fuel dealer, the bridge, the Borden
plant and the nearly empty skyline to the left of the primary
skyscraper lead me to the same conclusion Tim has drawn but to
specify a photo taken from Jersey City or Hoboken looking
northeasterly. Otherwise I would have to suggest from Brooklyn
looking across the southern tip of Manhattan but that bridge really
troubles me with that possible conclusion. Regrettably, I do not have
a list of where all the Borden milk processing plants were located in
the mountain of milk train material here and either location is a
strong possible for such a plant.

Now that I've muddied the waters further I'll leave you both to
draw your own conclusions.

Don Valentine




--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Miller" <aslmmiller@...> wrote:

I think this may be the Bronx. We are looking over the Harlem
River. There appear to be skyscrapers (Emp State bldg and Chrysler
bldg?) in the distance.

Andy Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:20 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Location of this scene?


I'm guessing New Jersey somewhere... that Blue Ridge
coal and oil dealer may be a clue.

http://www.first-out.com/ebay/0726104.jpg

Tim O'Connor





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

There was an article in Model Railroad Planning a couple of years
back on modelling the Harlem Terminal RR, a DL&W subsidiary. And the
owner of Fast Tracks (maker of jigs for handlaid turnouts) is
modelling the Jersey Central's Bronx Terminal operation as well--

http://www.bronx-terminal.com/?cat=6

Maybe this photo was taken on one of these properties?

Steve Lucas.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Donald B. Valentine" <riverman_vt@...>
wrote:

Jeez, Andy, did any part of the Bronx ever look that bad? But I
cannot tell for certain whether the skyscraper showing is the
Crysler
Building or the Empire State, though it looks more like the latter.
Which of the two is further north? You would know that better than
I
and that might give us the direction in which we are looking. If it
is the Empire State or the Crysler building taken from the Bronx
why
is it that more skyscrapers do not who to the left (south) of it?
Note, too, the Borden milk processing plant to the front and right
of the uncertain skyscraper. The fuel dealer, the bridge, the
Borden
plant and the nearly empty skyline to the left of the primary
skyscraper lead me to the same conclusion Tim has drawn but to
specify a photo taken from Jersey City or Hoboken looking
northeasterly. Otherwise I would have to suggest from Brooklyn
looking across the southern tip of Manhattan but that bridge really
troubles me with that possible conclusion. Regrettably, I do not
have
a list of where all the Borden milk processing plants were located
in
the mountain of milk train material here and either location is a
strong possible for such a plant.

Now that I've muddied the waters further I'll leave you both to
draw your own conclusions.

Don Valentine




--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Miller" <aslmmiller@> wrote:

I think this may be the Bronx. We are looking over the Harlem
River. There appear to be skyscrapers (Emp State bldg and Chrysler
bldg?) in the distance.

Andy Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:20 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Location of this scene?


I'm guessing New Jersey somewhere... that Blue Ridge
coal and oil dealer may be a clue.

http://www.first-out.com/ebay/0726104.jpg

Tim O'Connor
al_brown03
 

The bridge isn't the George Washington (which is a suspension bridge)
so the river isn't the Hudson. Most of the midtown skyscrapers are in
a clump; the Empire State stands a few blocks off by itself but I
forget in which direction.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. (who grew up in northern NJ)


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Lucas" <stevelucas3@...> wrote:

There was an article in Model Railroad Planning a couple of years
back on modelling the Harlem Terminal RR, a DL&W subsidiary. And
the
owner of Fast Tracks (maker of jigs for handlaid turnouts) is
modelling the Jersey Central's Bronx Terminal operation as well--

http://www.bronx-terminal.com/?cat=6

Maybe this photo was taken on one of these properties?

Steve Lucas.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Donald B. Valentine" <riverman_vt@>
wrote:

Jeez, Andy, did any part of the Bronx ever look that bad? But
I
cannot tell for certain whether the skyscraper showing is the
Crysler
Building or the Empire State, though it looks more like the
latter.
Which of the two is further north? You would know that better
than
I
and that might give us the direction in which we are looking. If
it
is the Empire State or the Crysler building taken from the Bronx
why
is it that more skyscrapers do not who to the left (south) of it?
Note, too, the Borden milk processing plant to the front and
right
of the uncertain skyscraper. The fuel dealer, the bridge, the
Borden
plant and the nearly empty skyline to the left of the primary
skyscraper lead me to the same conclusion Tim has drawn but to
specify a photo taken from Jersey City or Hoboken looking
northeasterly. Otherwise I would have to suggest from Brooklyn
looking across the southern tip of Manhattan but that bridge
really
troubles me with that possible conclusion. Regrettably, I do not
have
a list of where all the Borden milk processing plants were
located
in
the mountain of milk train material here and either location is a
strong possible for such a plant.

Now that I've muddied the waters further I'll leave you both
to
draw your own conclusions.

Don Valentine




--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Miller" <aslmmiller@> wrote:

I think this may be the Bronx. We are looking over the Harlem
River. There appear to be skyscrapers (Emp State bldg and
Chrysler
bldg?) in the distance.

Andy Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:20 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Location of this scene?


I'm guessing New Jersey somewhere... that Blue Ridge
coal and oil dealer may be a clue.

http://www.first-out.com/ebay/0726104.jpg

Tim O'Connor





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tim O'Connor
 

Don

I was informed offline this is the Harlem River in the Bronx. So
Andy was right. It's a great, gritty scene in any case... I'm not sure
I'd want to be on foot in such a location.

Tim

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Donald B. Valentine" <riverman_vt@yahoo.com>
Jeez, Andy, did any part of the Bronx ever look that bad? But I
cannot tell for certain whether the skyscraper showing is the Crysler
Building or the Empire State, though it looks more like the latter.
Which of the two is further north? You would know that better than I
and that might give us the direction in which we are looking. If it
is the Empire State or the Crysler building taken from the Bronx why
is it that more skyscrapers do not who to the left (south) of it?
Note, too, the Borden milk processing plant to the front and right
of the uncertain skyscraper. The fuel dealer, the bridge, the Borden
plant and the nearly empty skyline to the left of the primary
skyscraper lead me to the same conclusion Tim has drawn but to
specify a photo taken from Jersey City or Hoboken looking
northeasterly. Otherwise I would have to suggest from Brooklyn
looking across the southern tip of Manhattan but that bridge really
troubles me with that possible conclusion. Regrettably, I do not have
a list of where all the Borden milk processing plants were located in
the mountain of milk train material here and either location is a
strong possible for such a plant.

Now that I've muddied the waters further I'll leave you both to
draw your own conclusions.

Don Valentine

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Miller" <aslmmiller@...> wrote:

I think this may be the Bronx. We are looking over the Harlem
River. There appear to be skyscrapers (Emp State bldg and Chrysler
bldg?) in the distance.

Andy Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:20 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Location of this scene?


I'm guessing New Jersey somewhere... that Blue Ridge
coal and oil dealer may be a clue.

http://www.first-out.com/ebay/0726104.jpg

Tim O'Connor
Andy Miller <aslmmiller@...>
 

Don,

The Bronx still looks that bad!

The Chrysler Bldg is farther nortrh. Both were built at about the same time just as the depression started. So they were the only skyscrapers in mid town Manhatten for many years. That might help date the photo.

Neather the Hiudson nor the East River is this narrow anywhere near Manhatten. That's why I think we are in the Bronx overlooking the Harlem R.

regards,

Andy Miller

----- Original Message -----
From: Donald B. Valentine
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:38 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Location of this scene?


Jeez, Andy, did any part of the Bronx ever look that bad? But I
cannot tell for certain whether the skyscraper showing is the Crysler
Building or the Empire State, though it looks more like the latter.
Which of the two is further north? You would know that better than I
and that might give us the direction in which we are looking. If it
is the Empire State or the Crysler building taken from the Bronx why
is it that more skyscrapers do not who to the left (south) of it?
Note, too, the Borden milk processing plant to the front and right
of the uncertain skyscraper. The fuel dealer, the bridge, the Borden
plant and the nearly empty skyline to the left of the primary
skyscraper lead me to the same conclusion Tim has drawn but to
specify a photo taken from Jersey City or Hoboken looking
northeasterly. Otherwise I would have to suggest from Brooklyn
looking across the southern tip of Manhattan but that bridge really
troubles me with that possible conclusion. Regrettably, I do not have
a list of where all the Borden milk processing plants were located in
the mountain of milk train material here and either location is a
strong possible for such a plant.

Now that I've muddied the waters further I'll leave you both to
draw your own conclusions.

Don Valentine

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Miller" <aslmmiller@...> wrote:
>
> I think this may be the Bronx. We are looking over the Harlem
River. There appear to be skyscrapers (Emp State bldg and Chrysler
bldg?) in the distance.
>
> Andy Miller
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim O'Connor
> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:20 PM
> Subject: [STMFC] Location of this scene?
>
>
> I'm guessing New Jersey somewhere... that Blue Ridge
> coal and oil dealer may be a clue.
>
> http://www.first-out.com/ebay/0726104.jpg
>
> Tim O'Connor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
rwitt_2000
 

I believe this is another photo near the first scene. Maybe the
locomotive provides a further clue to the location.


http://www.first-out.com/ebay/0726138.jpg
<http://www.first-out.com/ebay/0726138.jpg>

BEDT 0-6-0T w IC boxcar
Bob Witt

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Miller" <aslmmiller@...> wrote:

Don,

The Bronx still looks that bad!

The Chrysler Bldg is farther nortrh. Both were built at about the
same time just as the depression started. So they were the only
skyscrapers in mid town Manhatten for many years. That might help date
the photo.

Neather the Hiudson nor the East River is this narrow anywhere near
Manhatten. That's why I think we are in the Bronx overlooking the
Harlem R.

regards,

Andy Miller


----- Original Message -----
From: Donald B. Valentine
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:38 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Location of this scene?


Jeez, Andy, did any part of the Bronx ever look that bad? But I
cannot tell for certain whether the skyscraper showing is the
Crysler
Building or the Empire State, though it looks more like the latter.
Which of the two is further north? You would know that better than I
and that might give us the direction in which we are looking. If it
is the Empire State or the Crysler building taken from the Bronx why
is it that more skyscrapers do not who to the left (south) of it?
Note, too, the Borden milk processing plant to the front and right
of the uncertain skyscraper. The fuel dealer, the bridge, the Borden
plant and the nearly empty skyline to the left of the primary
skyscraper lead me to the same conclusion Tim has drawn but to
specify a photo taken from Jersey City or Hoboken looking
northeasterly. Otherwise I would have to suggest from Brooklyn
looking across the southern tip of Manhattan but that bridge really
troubles me with that possible conclusion. Regrettably, I do not
have
a list of where all the Borden milk processing plants were located
in
the mountain of milk train material here and either location is a
strong possible for such a plant.

Now that I've muddied the waters further I'll leave you both to
draw your own conclusions.

Don Valentine

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Miller" aslmmiller@ wrote:
>
> I think this may be the Bronx. We are looking over the Harlem
River. There appear to be skyscrapers (Emp State bldg and Chrysler
bldg?) in the distance.
>
> Andy Miller
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim O'Connor
> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:20 PM
> Subject: [STMFC] Location of this scene?
>
>
> I'm guessing New Jersey somewhere... that Blue Ridge
> coal and oil dealer may be a clue.
>
> http://www.first-out.com/ebay/0726104.jpg
>
> Tim O'Connor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Tim O'Connor
 

I should have thought of this in the first place -- http://maps.live.com

I searched on Harlem River NY, and found a location for the bridge.
It is the University Heights bridge. The whole scene has changed but
the outlines of the carfloat piers and such are still visible. The Major
Deegan expressway must have wiped out a lot of this area.

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Andy Miller" <aslmmiller@rcn.com>
Don,

The Bronx still looks that bad!

The Chrysler Bldg is farther nortrh. Both were built at about the same time
just as the depression started. So they were the only skyscrapers in mid town
Manhatten for many years. That might help date the photo.

Neather the Hiudson nor the East River is this narrow anywhere near Manhatten.
That's why I think we are in the Bronx overlooking the Harlem R.

regards,

Andy Miller


----- Original Message -----
From: Donald B. Valentine
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:38 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Location of this scene?


Jeez, Andy, did any part of the Bronx ever look that bad? But I
cannot tell for certain whether the skyscraper showing is the Crysler
Building or the Empire State, though it looks more like the latter.
Which of the two is further north? You would know that better than I
and that might give us the direction in which we are looking. If it
is the Empire State or the Crysler building taken from the Bronx why
is it that more skyscrapers do not who to the left (south) of it?
Note, too, the Borden milk processing plant to the front and right
of the uncertain skyscraper. The fuel dealer, the bridge, the Borden
plant and the nearly empty skyline to the left of the primary
skyscraper lead me to the same conclusion Tim has drawn but to
specify a photo taken from Jersey City or Hoboken looking
northeasterly. Otherwise I would have to suggest from Brooklyn
looking across the southern tip of Manhattan but that bridge really
troubles me with that possible conclusion. Regrettably, I do not have
a list of where all the Borden milk processing plants were located in
the mountain of milk train material here and either location is a
strong possible for such a plant.

Now that I've muddied the waters further I'll leave you both to
draw your own conclusions.

Don Valentine

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Miller" <aslmmiller@...> wrote:
>
> I think this may be the Bronx. We are looking over the Harlem
River. There appear to be skyscrapers (Emp State bldg and Chrysler
bldg?) in the distance.
>
> Andy Miller
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim O'Connor
> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:20 PM
> Subject: [STMFC] Location of this scene?
>
>
> I'm guessing New Jersey somewhere... that Blue Ridge
> coal and oil dealer may be a clue.
>
> http://www.first-out.com/ebay/0726104.jpg
>
> Tim O'Connor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>








------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
dssa1051
 

That IC boxcar with the BEDT 0-6-0T is an Athearn car! 5/5
Dreadnaught, square corner ends. I can't make out the number.

Robert Oom
Tim O'Connor
 

Robert

Looks like W-corner ends to me. IC had both kinds. Nice rust
patch on it too.

Tim O'

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "dssa1051" <dssa1051@yahoo.com>
That IC boxcar with the BEDT 0-6-0T is an Athearn car! 5/5
Dreadnaught, square corner ends. I can't make out the number.

Robert Oom


<http://www.first-out.com/ebay/0726138.jpg>

BEDT 0-6-0T w IC boxcar
Matt Herson
 

The photo is taken from the Bronx and is looking across the Harlem River south toward Manhattan. The bridge to the left is the 3rd Ave Bridge and it appears the photo may have been taken from the New York Central bridge to Grand Central Terminal. The Chrysler Building at 42nd Street is on Lexington Ave., the street that the camera is looking straight down. The Empire State Building at 34th St. is on 5th Ave to the west, visible near the Borden's sign.

I believe the freight cars to the left are at the Harlem Transfer Facility which was discussed here a while back.

Matt Herson

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Miller
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Location of this scene?


I think this may be the Bronx. We are looking over the Harlem River. There appear to be skyscrapers (Emp State bldg and Chrysler bldg?) in the distance.

Andy Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 10:20 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Location of this scene?

I'm guessing New Jersey somewhere... that Blue Ridge
coal and oil dealer may be a clue.

http://www.first-out.com/ebay/0726104.jpg

Tim O'Connor
tbarney2004
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Donald B. Valentine" <riverman_vt@...>
wrote:

Jeez, Andy, did any part of the Bronx ever look that bad? But I
cannot tell for certain whether the skyscraper showing is the Crysler
Building or the Empire State, though it looks more like the latter.
Which of the two is further north? You would know that better than I
and that might give us the direction in which we are looking. If it
is the Empire State or the Crysler building taken from the Bronx why
is it that more skyscrapers do not who to the left (south) of it?
Note, too, the Borden milk processing plant to the front and right
of the uncertain skyscraper. The fuel dealer, the bridge, the Borden
plant and the nearly empty skyline to the left of the primary
skyscraper lead me to the same conclusion Tim has drawn but to
specify a photo taken from Jersey City or Hoboken looking
northeasterly. Otherwise I would have to suggest from Brooklyn
looking across the southern tip of Manhattan but that bridge really
troubles me with that possible conclusion. Regrettably, I do not have
a list of where all the Borden milk processing plants were located in
the mountain of milk train material here and either location is a
strong possible for such a plant.

Now that I've muddied the waters further I'll leave you both to
draw your own conclusions.

Don Valentine


Also, keep in mind that the Hudson river was a navigable waterway for
ocean going ships, and as such, that bridge is WAY too low (I think
the discussions I've seen about the proposed bridge crossing leading
up to the Pennsy tunnels into Manhattan mentioned U.S. Navy or USACE
minimum clearance above high tide of at least 150').

So I'd doubt it could be from Jersey looking East....or am I mistaken?
Tim Barney
Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

The Chrysler Building at 42nd Street is on Lexington Ave., the street that the camera is looking straight down. The Empire State Building at 34th St. is on 5th Ave to the west, visible near the Borden's sign.
============

That doesn't compute. The building at the end of the long avenue is oviously much farther away from the camera. The Empire State Building was a half mile south of the Chrysler Building.


Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Malcolm Laughlin wrote:
The Empire State Building was a half mile south of the Chrysler Building.
Probably still is. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history
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