Early Schnabel Cars


John Thompson
 

I have searched the Web and this list's archives, but I can't find
anything about when the first Schnabel cars appeared on US rails, and
whether they looked different from the HO models currently available.
Does anyone here know the history of these cars for the steam era?

Thanks,
John Thompson
Bellevue (Seattle) WA


Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
 

At 12:34 PM 8/5/2008, John Thompson wrote:
I have searched the Web and this list's archives, but I can't find
anything about when the first Schnabel cars appeared on US rails, and
whether they looked different from the HO models currently available.
Does anyone here know the history of these cars for the steam era?
It looks like the Schnabel may have just
slipped-in at the end of the Steam era...

"100 Years of Railroad Cars" (Walter Lucas, ©
1958) has photos and plans for WECX 200, a
250-ton Schnabel built in June 1957 by Greenville for Westinghouse.

One photo shows a typically large Westinghouse
transformer load, with a banner reading "Another
Westinghouse First"... which may indicate that
this was the first shipment of its kind.

The car looks quite modellogenic... 4 six-wheel
buckeye trucks, and two full separate sets of
brake gear sitting out on top of the flat deck of
the car halves. The whole thing is only about
65ft over the strikers, close-coupled with no load.


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------


Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
 

WECX 200 photos at:
<http://southern.railfan.net/schnabel/cars/ptdx200/wecx200.html>
The c1957 photo in the middle of the page look
like the same shipment as in the book.

Richard

At 08:50 PM 8/5/2008, Richard Brennan wrote:
At 12:34 PM 8/5/2008, John Thompson wrote:
I have searched the Web and this list's archives, but I can't find
anything about when the first Schnabel cars appeared on US rails, and
whether they looked different from the HO models currently available.
Does anyone here know the history of these cars for the steam era?
It looks like the Schnabel may have just
slipped-in at the end of the Steam era...

"100 Years of Railroad Cars" (Walter Lucas, ©
1958) has photos and plans for WECX 200, a
250-ton Schnabel built in June 1957 by Greenville for Westinghouse.

One photo shows a typically large Westinghouse
transformer load, with a banner reading "Another
Westinghouse First"... which may indicate that
this was the first shipment of its kind.

The car looks quite modellogenic... 4 six-wheel
buckeye trucks, and two full separate sets of
brake gear sitting out on top of the flat deck of
the car halves. The whole thing is only about
65ft over the strikers, close-coupled with no load.


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------


rfederle@...
 

I found the excerpt below from the following website:

http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/rrschnb2.html#schnmisc

"* - Spelling of the Name: SCHNABEL vs. SCHNABLE - "Schnabel" is the KORREKT spelling! It is the German word for "beak", which I originally thought referred to the beak-shaped loading arms, but now know was the name of the German inventor of the design ca. 1930 or so. I don't know where or when I started using "Schnable", but it was wrong and I don't mind admitting my error. "

It appears the design is from Europe in 1930.

Robert Federle


---- Richard Brennan <brennan8@...> wrote:

WECX 200 photos at:
<http://southern.railfan.net/schnabel/cars/ptdx200/wecx200.html>
The c1957 photo in the middle of the page look
like the same shipment as in the book.

Richard

At 08:50 PM 8/5/2008, Richard Brennan wrote:
At 12:34 PM 8/5/2008, John Thompson wrote:
I have searched the Web and this list's archives, but I can't find
anything about when the first Schnabel cars appeared on US rails, and
whether they looked different from the HO models currently available.
Does anyone here know the history of these cars for the steam era?
It looks like the Schnabel may have just
slipped-in at the end of the Steam era...

"100 Years of Railroad Cars" (Walter Lucas, ©
1958) has photos and plans for WECX 200, a
250-ton Schnabel built in June 1957 by Greenville for Westinghouse.

One photo shows a typically large Westinghouse
transformer load, with a banner reading "Another
Westinghouse First"... which may indicate that
this was the first shipment of its kind.

The car looks quite modellogenic... 4 six-wheel
buckeye trucks, and two full separate sets of
brake gear sitting out on top of the flat deck of
the car halves. The whole thing is only about
65ft over the strikers, close-coupled with no load.


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------


John Thompson
 

Thanks to all (so far). I had seen the reference to 1957 but didn't
know if that was the first such car in the US or not. The Berliner
website includes the following reference, but it's not clear to me
whether it's a Schnabel car or a heavy-duty flat car:
--------------

Photo (and blowup detail) accompanying "Interview with Claire I.
Clugh", KEYSTONE, Volume 29, Number 2, Summer 1996, Pages 14-15,
PRRT&HS, FD2 #470245 in Apr 1952 (with Mr. Clugh and another in front
for scale - WOW!).
--------------

Does anyone have more information on this reference or on the first
Schnabel cars in the US?

Thanks again,
John Thompson

--- In STMFC@..., <rfederle@...> wrote:

I found the excerpt below from the following website:

http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/rrschnb2.html#schnmisc

"* - Spelling of the Name: SCHNABEL vs. SCHNABLE - "Schnabel" is
the KORREKT spelling! It is the German word for "beak", which I
originally thought referred to the beak-shaped loading arms, but now
know was the name of the German inventor of the design ca. 1930 or
so. I don't know where or when I started using "Schnable", but it
was wrong and I don't mind admitting my error. "

It appears the design is from Europe in 1930.

Robert Federle


---- Richard Brennan <brennan8@...> wrote:
WECX 200 photos at:
<http://southern.railfan.net/schnabel/cars/ptdx200/wecx200.html>
The c1957 photo in the middle of the page look
like the same shipment as in the book.

Richard

At 08:50 PM 8/5/2008, Richard Brennan wrote:
At 12:34 PM 8/5/2008, John Thompson wrote:
I have searched the Web and this list's archives, but I can't
find
anything about when the first Schnabel cars appeared on US
rails, and
whether they looked different from the HO models currently
available.
Does anyone here know the history of these cars for the steam
era?

It looks like the Schnabel may have just
slipped-in at the end of the Steam era...

"100 Years of Railroad Cars" (Walter Lucas, ©
1958) has photos and plans for WECX 200, a
250-ton Schnabel built in June 1957 by Greenville for
Westinghouse.

One photo shows a typically large Westinghouse
transformer load, with a banner reading "Another
Westinghouse First"... which may indicate that
this was the first shipment of its kind.

The car looks quite modellogenic... 4 six-wheel
buckeye trucks, and two full separate sets of
brake gear sitting out on top of the flat deck of
the car halves. The whole thing is only about
65ft over the strikers, close-coupled with no load.


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------


tbarney2004
 

--- In STMFC@..., "John Thompson" <JThomp1945@...> wrote:

Thanks to all (so far). I had seen the reference to 1957 but didn't
know if that was the first such car in the US or not. The Berliner
website includes the following reference, but it's not clear to me
whether it's a Schnabel car or a heavy-duty flat car:
--------------

Photo (and blowup detail) accompanying "Interview with Claire I.
Clugh", KEYSTONE, Volume 29, Number 2, Summer 1996, Pages 14-15,
PRRT&HS, FD2 #470245 in Apr 1952 (with Mr. Clugh and another in front
for scale - WOW!).
--------------

Does anyone have more information on this reference or on the first
Schnabel cars in the US?

Thanks again,
John Thompson

--- In STMFC@..., <rfederle@> wrote:

I found the excerpt below from the following website:

http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/rrschnb2.html#schnmisc
The PRR FD2 "Queen Mary" flat car was an all welded, 250T capacity
depressed-center heavy duty flat. Utilized 4, 4 axle trucks with span
bolsters. Trucks were salvaged from scrapped 8 axle "long distance"
steam locomotive tenders (250F classes - nominal 25k gallon water
capy). Car was also unique in that the span bolsters had a second
well-type body that could be swapped for the normal depressed center
type car body. The well (class FW2), AFAIK, has long been scrapped,
but the FD2 itself survives at the Railroader's Memorial Museum in
Altoona, the city where it was originally built. It was advanced for
it's time, being all-welded when most cars (even of similar type) were
riveted construction. I believe the article you reference makes note
of that fact, as well as the huge amounts of material used (car itself
tops just over 500,000lbs empty itself) and the unique challenges
faced by a workforce who had never previously constructed a fully
welded car, especially, of this scale.

Tim Barney


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

John Thompson wrote:
"The Berliner website includes the following reference, but it's not
clear to me whether it's a Schnabel car or a heavy-duty flat car:
--------------
Photo (and blowup detail) accompanying "Interview with Claire I.
Clugh", KEYSTONE, Volume 29, Number 2, Summer 1996, Pages 14-15,
PRRT&HS, FD2 #470245 in Apr 1952 (with Mr. Clugh and another in front
for scale - WOW!).
--------------
Does anyone have more information on this reference or on the first
Schnabel cars in the US?

Tim Barney replied:
"The PRR FD2 "Queen Mary" flat car was an all welded, 250T capacity
depressed-center heavy duty flat."

In short, this is NOT a Schnabel car.


Ben Hom


Larry Kline
 

WECX 200 was the first US Schnabel car. It was built in June 1957 for the Westinghouse Transformer Div. by Greenville Steel Car Co. It was built because power transformers grew too large for depressed center flatcars as transmission voltages increased. The page in the link below includes an article from Modern Railroads and an article from the Erie RR employee magazine. (Scroll to the bottom) The Erie magazine article includes several photos of an O scale model.

There are drawings and 2 photos in the 1961 Car Builders Cyc. on pp 180-181.

There is quite a bit of information on WECX 200 and later Schnabel cars at the PRRT&HS archives, including photos of a 1930s German car. The Archives are open for research when volunteers are working there. See:
http://www.prrths.com/PRR_Research_page_two.htm

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA
Westinghouse employee from 1966 to 1996

Richard Brennan wrote:
WECX 200 photos at:
<http://southern.railfan.net/schnabel/cars/ptdx200/wecx200.html>
The c1957 photo in the middle of the page look like the same shipment as in the book.


John Thompson
 

Thanks to Larry Kline and all for the very helpful answers!

John Thompson

--- In STMFC@..., Larry Kline <lndkline@...> wrote:

WECX 200 was the first US Schnabel car. It was built in June 1957
for
the Westinghouse Transformer Div. by Greenville Steel Car Co. It
was
built because power transformers grew too large for depressed
center
flatcars as transmission voltages increased. The page in the link
below includes an article from Modern Railroads and an article
from
the Erie RR employee magazine. (Scroll to the bottom) The Erie
magazine article includes several photos of an O scale model.

There are drawings and 2 photos in the 1961 Car Builders Cyc. on
pp
180-181.

There is quite a bit of information on WECX 200 and later
Schnabel
cars at the PRRT&HS archives, including photos of a 1930s German
car.
The Archives are open for research when volunteers are working
there.
See:
http://www.prrths.com/PRR_Research_page_two.htm

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA
Westinghouse employee from 1966 to 1996

Richard Brennan wrote:
WECX 200 photos at:
<http://southern.railfan.net/schnabel/cars/ptdx200/wecx200.html>
The c1957 photo in the middle of the page look like the same
shipment
as in the book.