Hi,

I'm completing Sunshine's MoPac 52'6" Fixed End gondolas and could use some
photos. The Sunshine data sheet includes only one photo of the MoPac cars
(actually one of the StLB&M cars), and does not show the "B"-end. Anyone know of
a source? These cars also include I-GN 12000-12799 and StLB&M 11100-11599,
11650-11899. I also have to comment that the instructions are pretty skimpy.
Why no photos of the completed kit and only a partial photo of the underside?
Is there a reason Sunshine is producing minimalist instructions these days?

Thanks!

Jerry Michels



**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

Jerry

Whoa, how did I miss those? What kit numbers?

Jerry Michel's said

Is there a reason Sunshine is producing minimalist instructions these days?


Like the little bird in the tree-cheep, CHEEP, CHEEP!

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

Just a little horn tooting on my own behalf -
Questions like Tim's are getting easier to answer. I went to
www.sunshinekits.com <http://www.sunshinekits.com/> and selected Flyers by
RR. Then I scrolled down to MP and there it was. I have more than 100
Sunshine flyers available on-line now but I am still less than half done.
Flyers for all kits numbered 54 and above are available now and I'll be
adding more in a week or two.
By the way, do you Missouri Pacific people have a preference whether I use
MP or MoPac?

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
timboconnor@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 2:11 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Sunshine MoPac Gondolas 5200-5299



Jerry

Whoa, how did I miss those? What kit numbers?



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1592 - Release Date: 8/5/2008
6:03 AM

Better than no kits at all - keep the kits coming Martin, those of us on
this list should be able to handle the Instructions and fill in the gaps.



Respectfully submitted,





Charles D. Shope



_____

From: cobrapsl@... [mailto:cobrapsl@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 5:01 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Sunshine MoPac Gondolas 5200-5299



Jerry Michel's said

Is there a reason Sunshine is producing minimalist instructions these days?

Like the little bird in the tree-cheep, CHEEP, CHEEP!

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: asychis@aol. <mailto:asychis%40aol.com> com
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 1:58 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Sunshine MoPac Gondolas 5200-5299

Hi,

I'm completing Sunshine's MoPac 52'6" Fixed End gondolas and could use some
photos. The Sunshine data sheet includes only one photo of the MoPac cars
(actually one of the StLB&M cars), and does not show the "B"-end. Anyone
know of
a source? These cars also include I-GN 12000-12799 and StLB&M 11100-11599,
11650-11899. I also have to comment that the instructions are pretty skimpy.

Why no photos of the completed kit and only a partial photo of the
underside?
Is there a reason Sunshine is producing minimalist instructions these days?

Thanks!

Jerry Michels

**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000
017 )

If these kits have come since the recent Spring rains, it is that all their time is taken up in the shop trying to get these car parts to kick off and cure in this high humidity. I would have guessed also that their raw material costs have gone up significantly . . . just like gasoline. Have their prices gone up 50 percent?

They are also trying to organize their Naperville Conference . . . . which has a LOT of speakers this year.

Al Kresse
Romeo, Michigan

On Aug 5, 2008, at 1:58 PM, asychis@... wrote:

I'm completing Sunshine's MoPac 52'6" Fixed End gondolas and could
use some
photos. The Sunshine data sheet includes only one photo of the
MoPac cars
(actually one of the StLB&M cars), and does not show the "B"-end.
Anyone know of
a source? These cars also include I-GN 12000-12799 and StLB&M
11100-11599,
11650-11899.

Jerry, I have photos of StLB&M 11412 and 11721. Neither view shows
the B end, but either or both of these would be helpful, I'll send
you scans off-list.

Richard Hendrickson

Jerry,

The "B" End of the STL&BM 48' Gondola which Martin put out as an extension kit to his early MoP kits is shown on Page 219 (Figure 225) of the 1940 Car Builders Cyclopedia.

It has what appears to be an interesting ratchet type hand brake and looks to be mounted close to the car end center, just to the right of the retainer valve. No side or end ladders, all grab irons.

Perhaps Richard can elaborate as to the type of hand brake this was.

Regards,

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...

List,

In replying to Jerry's question regarding the lack of information for Martin's MoP 52'6 Gondola (Kit #70.10), I mistakenly confused it with the earlier MoP and STLB&M kits Martin produced in the early '90s. My apologies to the list for wasting the bandwidth.

I posed a question in that post regarding the earlier 11001 series 48' STLB&M gondola regarding the hand brake (a ratchet type???) on the end of the car. Can anyone identify it as to type and manufacturer

That earlier Sunshine kit was a combination of the MoP Kit #1.2 non-panel side kit and a extension Kit #C.1 which allowed the modeler to extend the sides to make the STLB&M car series.

My second question regards the new release from Sunshine of Kit #83.7, a C&NW 50' Autocar in number series 51000-51598 and 51600-51998. The lower number series had no auto racks whereas the higher number group had racks, divided into 250 cars in each group.

The ratios and totals of cars dwindled through the years with only 400 cars remaining and all with racks by 1948 and remaining the same in the January 1952 ORER.

The January 1953 ORER showed NO cars remaining in these number series Were they renumbered, with or without racks, or were they scrapped?

Regards,
Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...

It's Kit 70.10



**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

Charlie, Have you built one of these? If so, can you give me some idea of
the set up for the B-end, or send me a digital photo? That's my main problem.
I did not mean to over criticize Sunshine, but if you've seen these
instructions, they are pretty thin. For you or me (to an extent), we may be able to
slog our way through the construction, however, if this was the first or second
resin kit a modeler attempted it would be difficult, similar to the old F&C
kits with instructions that for all practical purposes said "build the car." I
don't think the instructions in this kit can be compared to instructions Martin
included six or seven years ago and considered to be the same in detail or
photo coverage. These are craftsman kits, and a photo of the completed model
would be very helpful.

I want Martin to continue to produce kits, of course! I have several on
order and I think I've built every MP kit he's procuded, some in multiples (such
as the stockcars and Merchandise cars), not to mention a load of other roads
(just finished the B&O mansard roof car and it looks great, had good
instructions and photos too).

Richard, thanks for the offer of the photos. I can sure use them.

Al, I don't know when these kits were produced, a few years ago I think. My
resin kit building comes in spurts when I have time to concentrate on them. I
try to keep unbuilt kits to a minimum, but some I have are over ten years
old. They will be built sometime or another.

Tom, Thanks for the description of the ends. That helps a lot. In the
instructions/photos there is only one photo of a B-end on a fixed-end car, and it
is kind of fuzzy. These do have Dureya underframes, correct? I think I got
that correct from the PDS in the kit, although it had to be inferred. I was
concerned about this since the PDS mentioned that all but two lots of these cars,
built by Bethlehem, had Dureya underframes, but the MP cars were home built at
DeSoto.

Jerry



**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

Jim,

Your list is wonderful. I use it often. Is there any way I could help you
get scans done? I have a complete suite of scanners and the software to get
them ready to post. If I can help, contact me off-list.

As to your question about MP or MoPac, I think both are acceptable although
MP is the proper reporting mark. I think being consistent is the main thing.

Jerry



**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )

I cobbled it up the best I could when building mine:
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/modeling/StLBM_gon.html

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., <tmolsen@...> wrote:

Jerry,

The "B" End of the STL&BM 48' Gondola which Martin put out as an

extension kit to his early MoP kits is shown on Page 219 (Figure 225)
of the 1940 Car Builders Cyclopedia.

It has what appears to be an interesting ratchet type hand brake

and looks to be mounted close to the car end center, just to the
right of the retainer valve. No side or end ladders, all grab irons.

Perhaps Richard can elaborate as to the type of hand brake this was.

Regards,

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...

If detailed instructions are needed for these kits, these kits are too difficult for you to build. The construction of these kits has not changed over the years. You can take the instructions from a box car kit produced ten years ago and use them for todays kits. Usually a photo of the actual car is all that is needed.
Charlie Slater
Patternmaker



To: STMFC@...: cshope@...: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 17:08:25 -0500Subject: RE: [STMFC] Sunshine MoPac Gondolas 5200-5299

Charlie Slater wrote:
"If detailed instructions are needed for these kits, these kits are
too difficult for you to build."

Guess Al Westerfield wasted his time doing those instructions and
instructional videos all these years!


Ben Hom

Charlie Slater, Patternmaker, wrote:

If detailed instructions are needed for these kits, these kits are too difficult for you to build.

Nice one, Charlie. Guess no one can ever learn anything from instructions, but needs to know it up front. Might be useful to remember that not everyone knows where every little part goes on every prototype, nor is everyone a Patternmaker.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Now you know why Al does not produce anywhere the number of different kits that Martin does. If you want 2 or 3 kits a year we could spend a lot of OUR TIME writing instructions.
Charlie Slater



To: STMFC@...: b.hom@...: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 18:11:32 +0000Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine MoPac Gondolas 5200-5299




Charlie Slater wrote:"If detailed instructions are needed for these kits, these kits aretoo difficult for you to build."Guess Al Westerfield wasted his time doing those instructions and instructional videos all these years!Ben Hom





_________________________________________________________________
Get Windows Live and get whatever you need, wherever you are. Start here.
http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home_082008

Instruction videos are great, but Al does not make one for each kit produced. He did one which is a general instruction for all kits. Quit complaining and go build those kits that are piling up.
Charlie Slater



To: STMFC@...: b.hom@...: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 18:11:32 +0000Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine MoPac Gondolas 5200-5299




Charlie Slater wrote:"If detailed instructions are needed for these kits, these kits aretoo difficult for you to build."Guess Al Westerfield wasted his time doing those instructions and instructional videos all these years!Ben Hom





_________________________________________________________________
Got Game? Win Prizes in the Windows Live Hotmail Mobile Summer Games Trivia Contest
http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergames?ocid=TXT_TAGHM

Charlie Slater wrote:
"Now you know why Al does not produce anywhere the number of
different kits that Martin does. If you want 2 or 3 kits a year we
could spend a lot of OUR TIME writing instructions."

Since you broached the subject, Charlie, a couple of other points:

- Since you're a patternmaker, building these kits should come second
nature to you, as well it should for many of us on this list who are
expereienced modelers; however, adopting you attitude of "if you need
detailed instructions, the kits are too hard for you" seems like a
lazy way to justify alienating a large part of your possible market.
Sure many model railroaders won't even attempt building a resin kit,
but why not try to convince at least a few instead of alienating all
of them?

- 2 or 3 kits a year is perfectly fine to me if the manufacturer in
question is willing to fill my orders in a timely fashion. Offering
a multitude of kits but not filling customer orders within six months
has passed isn't terribly useful.

I'll take your advice and quit complaining and go back knocking down
my stash of models, pending articles, and the B&O Society USRA
freight car clinic that I have to give this weekend; however, you
could do us a favor and keep your "customer be damned" attitude to
yourself.


Ben Hom

On Aug 6, 2008, at 7:47 AM, asychis@... wrote:

Richard, thanks for the offer of the photos. I can sure use them.

Here they are, Jerry. StLB&M 11012 was at Brownwood, TX in April,
1952 (Chet McCoid photo, Bob's Photo Service collection). StLB&M
11721 was brand new at DeSoto, MO in June of 1951 (Joe Collias photo).



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