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Per Diem and the NYO&W
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John Hile <john66h@...>
--- In STMFC@..., "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:
Apparently not. Following is from Kalmbach's "The Historical Guide to North American Railroads"... "The NYO&W enjoyed a brief postwar surge of business, but NYO&W's division of the revenue wasn't enough to keep the rest of the road in business. The originating carrier gets most of the revenue from a freight move. To make money as a bridge carrier you need lots of business and a long haul - longer than the 145 miles from Scranton to Campbell Hall." John Hile Blacksburg, VA |
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Guys, the revenue for a 145 mile carload was not THAT small. Even
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if it took them two days to get the car over the road, the $5 and change per diem was more than covered by the $50 or more in gross revenue. All you have to do is find an NYO&W annual report for the period. It probably shows the total for revenues and expenditures. On most railroads of the period, more than 50% of revenues went straight to wages of employees. I suspect because of its short haul that NYO&W paid out a higher percentage of wages than other carriers. To blame the NYO&W's demise on per diem is a real stretch! I note that the L&NE died just a couple of years later; operated in the same area; and no one is claiming that per diem killed the L&NE. Heck we might as well go back to conspiracy theory -- that NYO&W was doomed because NY wanted its right of way for state highway #7. Tim O'Connor -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "John Hile" <john66h@...> --- In STMFC@..., "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> wrote: |
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John Hile <john66h@...>
--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:
Tim, You are absolutely correct. My choice of words ("Apparently not") was a poor one. I should have said something like..."Apparently NYO&W's share of revenue was not enough to offset its total operating costs, including that of any per diem deficits." In fact, 1941 statistics for average distribution of revenue between types of expense and net profit is as follows: 41.1% Labor (Salaries and Wages) 16.1% Other Materials and Supplies Misc. 10.2% Taxes 5.7% Fuel 4.4% Depreciation 2.5% Hire of Equipment and Joint Facility Net Rentals 1.3% Loss and Damage, Injury to Persons, Insurance & Pensions 18.7% Net Operating Income Note that "Car Hire" is the process which results in per diem charges. Above numbers are from "Analysis of Railroad Operations", Joseph L. White, Simmons-Boardman, 1946 John Hile Blacksburg, VA |
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Bill Schneider <branchline@...>
Get the facts straight Tim - its state highway 17, not 7. And the O&W did owe a ton of back taxes that the state stopped forgiving when they needed the ROW for the roadway.... :>)
Seriously, from what I understand operating costs and wages ate up nearly all of the revenue in the later years. Considering that the O&W's route really was fairly tortuous compared to the Erie's which ran almost parallel, I'm always amazed that they managed to get ANY bridge traffic, but there actually was a fair amount in the '50's. However, nearly all of the revenue came from the Scranton-Maybrook line, and yet there were other lines and branches that continued to be maintained and which drew down the company coffers despite the lack of income from them. I'm sure that copies of the annual reports are available from the O&W Society if anybody REALLY wants to pursue this... Bill Schneider Heck we might as well go back to conspiracy theory -- that NYO&WTim O'Connor |
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John, thanks for posting that. I think by the mid-50's labor costs had
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escalated substantially in spite of dieselization, so the "net income" disappeared. I'm surprised really to see NYO&W had almost a 20% gross margin in 1941. Tim O'Connor -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "John Hile" <john66h@...> --- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:Tim, |
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Who was feeding NYO&W from the west at Scranton? Lackawanna?
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From: "Bill Schneider" <branchline@...> Get the facts straight Tim - its state highway 17, not 7. And the O&W did |
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Malcolm H. Houck
Who was feeding NYO&W from the west at Scranton? Lackawanna?
Lehigh Valley, via Austin Junction at the end of the Capouse Branch. The run was then from Scranton to Maybrook, with traffic thence over the CNE Bridge to New England via the New Haven (50.5% common stockholder [plus other holdings in preferred] in the NYO&W and after the Vanderbilt-Mellen-Morgan "Corsair Agreements"). In Tony Koester's softcover Kalmbach book on planning for realistic operation he reproduces an image of a routing schedule that includes one of the NYO&W symbol freights; -- running NKP-LV-NYO&W-NH from the Midwest to New England; -- an "Alphabet Route." Mal Houck **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) |
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John Hile <john66h@...>
--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:
Tim, Boy, I was having trouble yesterday afternoon! Those figures are national averages for 1941...not NYO&W figures. John Hile |
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Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
There were so many nails in the coffin of the NYO&W. Its employees
were working for "substantially less than the national wage in an attempt to save their jobs." Yet the New York State Full Crew Act mandated a six-man crew for trains more than 25 cars long. And the US government wanted to seize the road for non-payment of Railroad Retirement taxes. A few quotes from David P. Morgan's "Obituary of an Old Woman", from July, 1957 Trains Magazine-- "The statistics of it all were sad. O&W was delinquent on payments for its aging diesels, paid substandard wages (and spent the withholding taxes to run the railroad), owned a tiny fleet of 82 freight cars (of which half were bought prior to 1919), had laid only half a mile of new rail since World War II. It took a middle-aged broker to remember the last dividend, paid in 1925, and the bonds had been so much wallpaper since O&W entered bankruptcy in 1937. All of which was expressed in an operating ratio which moved inexorably up from the high 80's to 107.36 per cent in 1955". "Nowhere to nowhere and upgrade all the way--with an afterthought of a branch keeping the sheriff away. The wonder is not that O&W died March 29, 1957, but that it was built in the first place. History was, in the end, unforgiving." But the O&W is such an engaging road for the modeller. My regret is that the closest that I'll get to modelling it that I want to have one or two O&W hopper cars (mandatory STMFC content) on my layout. Luckily, RMC ran an article on modelling these cars a few years ago. Steve Lucas. -- In STMFC@..., "Bill Schneider" <branchline@...> wrote: O&W did owe a ton of back taxes that the state stopped forgiving when theyneeded the ROW for the roadway.... :>)nearly all of the revenue in the later years. Considering that the O&W'sroute really was fairly tortuous compared to the Erie's which ran almostparallel, I'm always amazed that they managed to get ANY bridge traffic, butthere actually was a fair amount in the '50's. However, nearly all of therevenue came from the Scranton-Maybrook line, and yet there were otherlines and branches that continued to be maintained and which drew down thecompany coffers despite the lack of income from them.O&W Society if anybody REALLY wants to pursue this...#7.
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