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Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931
Guy Wilber
In a message dated 9/27/2008 10:50:07 AM Central Daylight Time,
rpsmith@... writes: Nice Pics, but that is not Monroe, Washington. Web Page says Monroe, Ca, (California)Nice Pics, but that is not Monroe, Washington. It's Monroe, Washington (circa 1931). Regards, Guy Wilber West Bend, WI **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) |
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Paul Krueger <kruegerp@...>
Here is a picture taken from the icing platform at a lettuce farm in
Monroe, WA. Can't see much of the car sides, but there is clearly a Pabst car mixed in there. Incoming load? http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1302&CISOBOX=1&REC=16 Two more related shots http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1411&CISOBOX=1&REC=17 http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1351&CISOBOX=1&REC=17 Paul Seattle, WA |
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water.kresse@...
Paul,
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Great images! Semi-surprised to see FGE cars way out west. Why such a coarse (200 dpi) scanning rate? Hopefully, they are also doing Archival Quality scanning at 400-600 dpi and in TIFF formating (folks will want to crop and resize up, and still have 300 dpi left for a publication). These won't stay around for ever before they fall apart. Al Kresse -------------- Original message --------------
From: "Paul Krueger" <kruegerp@...> Here is a picture taken from the icing platform at a lettuce farm in Monroe, WA. Can't see much of the car sides, but there is clearly a Pabst car mixed in there. Incoming load? http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1302&CISOBOX=1&REC=16 Two more related shots http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1411&CISOBOX=1&REC=17 http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1351&CISOBOX=1&REC=17 Paul Seattle, WA |
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al_brown03
FGEX, BREX, and WFEX cars were pooled. No more surprising to see FGEX
cars on the GN than WFEX or BREX cars in Florida, which also commonly happened. See Bill Welch's essays for more detail. Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. --- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote: also doing Archival Quality scanning at 400-600 dpi and in TIFF formating (folks will want to crop and resize up, and still have 300 dpi left for a publication). These won't stay around for ever before they fall apart. CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1302&CISOBOX=1&REC=16 CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1411&CISOBOX=1&REC=17 CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1351&CISOBOX=1&REC=17
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Ron Smith <rpsmith@...>
Nice Pics, but that is not Monroe, Washington. Web Page says Monroe, Ca, (California), but label on Pic says Monroe, Wn, (Wisconson).
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Ron Smith Carman, UPRR ----- Original Message -----
From: al_brown03 To: STMFC@... Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:30 AM Subject: [STMFC] Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931 FGEX, BREX, and WFEX cars were pooled. No more surprising to see FGEX cars on the GN than WFEX or BREX cars in Florida, which also commonly happened. See Bill Welch's essays for more detail. Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. --- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote: > > Paul, > > Great images! Semi-surprised to see FGE cars way out west. > > Why such a coarse (200 dpi) scanning rate? Hopefully, they are also doing Archival Quality scanning at 400-600 dpi and in TIFF formating (folks will want to crop and resize up, and still have 300 dpi left for a publication). These won't stay around for ever before they fall apart. > > Al Kresse > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Paul Krueger" <kruegerp@...> > Here is a picture taken from the icing platform at a lettuce farm in > Monroe, WA. Can't see much of the car sides, but there is clearly a > Pabst car mixed in there. Incoming load? > > http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php? CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1302&CISOBOX=1&REC=16 > > Two more related shots > http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php? CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1411&CISOBOX=1&REC=17 > > http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php? CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1351&CISOBOX=1&REC=17 > > Paul > Seattle, WA > > > > > > |
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Paul Krueger <kruegerp@...>
Ron, the description says "Monroe, ca. 1931" meaning Monroe, circa
1931. I've often seen Wn. used to abbreviate Washington and I trust what is on the photo more than what is on the web page. Here is the series description for the photo collection these come from: "The Lee Pickett collection of over 900 photographs documents scenes from Snohomish, King and Chelan Counties in Washington State from the early 1900s to the 1940s. Based in Index, in the heart of the Cascade Mountains, he took thousands of photographs of that region. This includes the towns and people of Index, Gold Bar, Scenic, and Sultan. Local industries, such as the Heybrook Lumber Co. and Index Granite Works, are also depicted. Pickett was perhaps best known for his job as official photographer for the Great Northern Railway Company. A large number of his photographs reflect the program undertaken by the company in the 1920s to improve the line over the Cascade Mountains." This series has many photos of the Stevens Pass line of the GN, but unfortunately not many include freight cars. Paul Seattle, WA --- In STMFC@..., "Ron Smith" <rpsmith@...> wrote: Ca, (California), but label on Pic says Monroe, Wn, (Wisconson). Ron Smith |
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Andy Carlson
I need to remind myself from time to time that our current Post Office official abreviations are relatively recent, certainly well past the steam era. There were no official 2 letter state abbreviations in the era of our interest.
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-Andy Carlson Ojai CA --- On Sat, 9/27/08, Paul Krueger <kruegerp@...> wrote:
From: Paul Krueger <kruegerp@...> |
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Jack Mullen
--- In STMFC@..., "Paul Krueger" <kruegerp@...> wrote:
http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1302&CISOBOX=1&REC=16 http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1411&CISOBOX=1&REC=17 http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1351&CISOBOX=1&REC=17 Well, in 1931 it's certainly not a carload of beer. Near-beer, maybe, or malt syrup, or cheese (Pabst-ett), all of which were Pabst products during prohibition. But it could just be an instance of a billboard reefer carrying somebody else's goods, unrelated to the billboard lettering. Hmmm, maybe there's a book coming out... Jack Mullen |
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Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
Office official abreviations are relatively recent, certainly well past the steam era. There were no official 2 letter state abbreviations in the era of our interest. -Andy Carlson That brings up an interesting point, does anyone have a link to a list of the state abbreviations that were commonly used before the two capital letter codes were adopted? When I try to Goggle the subject, I gat about a million sites with the new codes, not the ones used previously. I'm old enough to remember the older abbreviations (and they were written like abbreviations, capitalized first letter and followed by a period) but only the ones I used: Illinois Ill. Indiana Ind. Michigan Mich. Minnesota Minn. Pennsylvania Penn. Wisconsin Wis. or Wisc. And my all time favorite: California Calif. Which everyone knew meant stood for "Come and live in Florida." Old joke :-) Dennis |
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Paul F Straney <pauls@...>
That brings up an interesting point, does anyone have a link to a listPennsylvania was also Penna. New York N.Y. New Jersey N.J. Delaware Del. Montana Mont. Some of the shorter ones, like Ohio, were not abbreviated. |
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Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
Look in the ORER in the Connection and Junction Points lists.
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KL ----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Storzek That brings up an interesting point, does anyone have a link to a list of the state abbreviations that were commonly used before the two capital letter codes were adopted? |
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Ron Smith <rpsmith@...>
Yeah I saw both of my mistakes after I hit send, bad case of foot in mouth. What exasperated the Probem was I saw Monroe, Wn, and thought and read Morton, Washington. Morton is so small, and so out of the way, my bad.
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Ron Smith Carman UPRR ----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Krueger To: STMFC@... Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:19 AM Subject: [STMFC] Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931 Ron, the description says "Monroe, ca. 1931" meaning Monroe, circa 1931. I've often seen Wn. used to abbreviate Washington and I trust what is on the photo more than what is on the web page. Here is the series description for the photo collection these come from: "The Lee Pickett collection of over 900 photographs documents scenes from Snohomish, King and Chelan Counties in Washington State from the early 1900s to the 1940s. Based in Index, in the heart of the Cascade Mountains, he took thousands of photographs of that region. This includes the towns and people of Index, Gold Bar, Scenic, and Sultan. Local industries, such as the Heybrook Lumber Co. and Index Granite Works, are also depicted. Pickett was perhaps best known for his job as official photographer for the Great Northern Railway Company. A large number of his photographs reflect the program undertaken by the company in the 1920s to improve the line over the Cascade Mountains." This series has many photos of the Stevens Pass line of the GN, but unfortunately not many include freight cars. Paul Seattle, WA --- In STMFC@..., "Ron Smith" <rpsmith@...> wrote: > > Nice Pics, but that is not Monroe, Washington. Web Page says Monroe, Ca, (California), but label on Pic says Monroe, Wn, (Wisconson). > Ron Smith > Carman, UPRR > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: al_brown03 > To: STMFC@... > Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:30 AM > Subject: [STMFC] Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931 > > > FGEX, BREX, and WFEX cars were pooled. No more surprising to see FGEX > cars on the GN than WFEX or BREX cars in Florida, which also commonly > happened. See Bill Welch's essays for more detail. > > Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. > > --- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@ wrote: > > > > Paul, > > > > Great images! Semi-surprised to see FGE cars way out west. > > > > Why such a coarse (200 dpi) scanning rate? Hopefully, they are > also doing Archival Quality scanning at 400-600 dpi and in TIFF > formating (folks will want to crop and resize up, and still have 300 > dpi left for a publication). These won't stay around for ever before > they fall apart. > > > > Al Kresse > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > From: "Paul Krueger" <kruegerp@> > > Here is a picture taken from the icing platform at a lettuce farm in > > Monroe, WA. Can't see much of the car sides, but there is clearly a > > Pabst car mixed in there. Incoming load? > > > > http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php? > CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1302&CISOBOX=1&REC=16 > > > > Two more related shots > > http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php? > CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1411&CISOBOX=1&REC=17 > > > > http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php? > CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1351&CISOBOX=1&REC=17 > > > > Paul > > Seattle, WA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Andy Carlson wrote:
There were no official 2 letter state abbreviations in the era of our interest.You must be forgetting NY. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
Dennis,
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You might try looking for an older dictionary. Collegiate and larger dictionaries often had this information. The best place to look would be a university library in the general stacks, not the reference section (which would have current editions). Kind regards, Garth G. Groff, library technician deluxe Dennis Storzek wrote: --- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote: |
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Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
Iowa was Ia.
As to the Pabst car, it's presence shows why the law we commonly call the "billboard reefer ban" was enacted. Shippers did not like putting their product in cars that "advertised" another product. Am I correct in understanding many of the "billboard" cars were leased and ran under the reporting marks of their own, ie URTC or GATC, and thus could be found loading products almost anything where a reefer was needed. Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org |
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Stokes John
Check this link: http://www.acronymfinder.com/stateabbreviations.asp.
On questions such as this one, a quick search on Google will most often turn up the answer faster and with less back and forth than just sitting waiting for someone else to find the answers. This one was simple, "state abbreviations" and the fourth site down was the jackpot (almost, it left out Ida. for Idaho and really puzzling, Tex. for Texas, otherwise seems to be right). I don't mean to preach about it, but over the last year I have seen dozens of such questions asked and then long strings or "I think it was this, but I'm not sure," or repeats of prior posts, and after dozens of posts, still no definitive answer, when the answer was just a few clicks away. Then share what you find if you think it is of general interest. If the link gets broken by yahoo, just type the link into your browser. John Stokes Bellevue, WA To: STMFC@...: dharding@...: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 08:41:09 -0500Subject: [STMFC] Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931 Iowa was Ia.As to the Pabst car, it's presence shows why the law we commonly call the "billboard reefer ban" was enacted. Shippers did notlike putting their product in cars that "advertised" another product. Am I correct in understanding many of the "billboard" carswere leased and ran under the reporting marks of their own, ie URTC or GATC, and thus could be found loading products almostanything where a reefer was needed.Doug Hardingwww.iowacentralrr.org |
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Being a natural contrarian -- perhaps the Pabst reefer was there simply
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because it needed ice! I'm not convinced the icing dock photos were taken at a 'farm' location. More likely those photos are somewhere else, perhaps nearby, where many reefers were sent for icing. -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Douglas Harding" <dharding@...> Iowa was Ia. |
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Stokes John
Tim, being a contrarian is one thing, being wrong is another. If you check the many photos of the farm that can be accessed through one of the links noted in the information from the photo archives, you will see a farm of vast proportions and clearly the proximity of the icing platforms to the farm. This farm and others in the West were large enough to require a dedicated storage facility and icing platforms. What is difficult to imagine about that? Check out the photos and the history of the C. H. Frye Lettuce Farm.
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Early on someone said the web site listed Monroe as being in California. Wrong, I checked the site and photo and it says "Monroe, ca. 1931" meaning Monroe, circa 1931, a commonly used abbreviation. Clearly from the rest of the information the site was in Washington State. It never fails to amaze me that some people deny things on the spot without checking them out, maybe some folks don't realize that Washington State is very large, had and still has a substantial agriculture business, and shipped vast quantities of produce all over the country, including apples, hops, and yes, lettuce. Frye even had a little tram system for loading and hauling the cars that was reminiscent of sugar cane tramways on the Islands. Open the eyes and the mind to the possibilities. John Stokes Bellevue, WA To: STMFC@...: timboconnor@...: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:20:45 +0000Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Pabst at the lettuce farm, 1931 Being a natural contrarian -- perhaps the Pabst reefer was there simplybecause it needed ice!I'm not convinced the icing dock photos were taken at a 'farm' location.More likely those photos are somewhere else, perhaps nearby, wheremany reefers were sent for icing.-------------- Original message ----------------------From: "Douglas Harding" <dharding@...>> Iowa was Ia.> > As to the Pabst car, it's presence shows why the law we commonly call the > "billboard reefer ban" was enacted. Shippers did not> like putting their product in cars that "advertised" another product. Am I > correct in understanding many of the "billboard" cars> were leased and ran under the reporting marks of their own, ie URTC or GATC, and > thus could be found loading products almost> anything where a reefer was needed.> > Doug Harding> www.iowacentralrr.org
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Doug Harding wrote:
As to the Pabst car, it's presence shows why the law we commonly call the "billboard reefer ban" was enacted. Shippers did not like putting their product in cars that "advertised" another product. Am I correct in understanding many of the "billboard" cars were leased and ran under the reporting marks of their own, ie URTC or GATC, and thus could be found loading products almost anything where a reefer was needed.No. They were leased to a lessee. Use outside the leasing company would have been unusual, and in any case the leasing companies did have "generic" company-scheme cars available. Though it is widely believed that the issue of shippers having to load in a car carrying advertising for someone else was central to the billboard ban, I can't recall that it is even MENTIONED in the ICC hearing record and decision. A summary of that decision, BTW, is an appendix in the Billboard Reefer book. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Richard Hendrickson
On Sep 29, 2008, at 10:20 AM, timboconnor@... wrote:
That was my take on the photo as well, Tim. The Pabst car could have been en route loaded, or en route home empty. There's no evidence in the photo that it had been, or was going to be, loaded with lettuce.
Essentially correct, though the ICC's main motivation for banning billboard advertising was that it constituted a free benefit provided by lessors to lessees which the railroads could not offer, and therefore was unfair competition. In theory, the railroads could load any empty reefer with a cargo traveling in the general direction of its lessee but in practice this seldom happened, at least partly because shippers were understandably unwilling to use cars advertising another shipper's products - especially if the other shipper was a competitor. Shameless commerce dep't.: see my new book from Signature Press on Billboard Reefers. Richard Hendrickson |
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