1. Topics
  2. IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

Eric Mumper <ericmumper@...>
 

Group,

Just went over to the Intermountain website and it looks like the new
1958 cuft covered hoppers are available and the site has pictures of
actual models - not just drawings. Has anyone seen these and can
anyone comment on their accuracy and quality of assembly? Always want
to ask this since first runs can have "issues".

These are going to be a major wallet cleanser. Currently there are
about 150 of the Bowser/Kato/E&B Valley cars moving silica sand around
my layout and an upgrade would be nice.

Thanks for any insight.

Eric Mumper
http://www.foxriverbranch.com
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Eric Mumper wrote:
Just went over to the Intermountain website and it looks like the new 1958 cuft covered hoppers are available and the site has pictures of actual models - not just drawings. Has anyone seen these and can anyone comment on their accuracy and quality of assembly? Always want to ask this since first runs can have "issues".
I saw a couple of complete models at the SP Society convention last month. They looked excellent, with fine grab iron detail like the Kadee PS-2 models. Of course that's not a measure of production. Accuracy, as Tim O'Connor pointed out a few days ago, depends on your prototype: does it have double latch "fingers" or single? double latch bars on each side or single? is the roof smooth, riveted or ribbed? As for "now" I don't think you're right. Frank Angstead of Intermountain said they HOPED they would have the first batch in by Christmas. But if anyone knows more, please enlighten us.

Currently there are about 150 of the Bowser/Kato/E&B Valley cars moving silica sand around my layout and an upgrade would be nice.
They will be an immense upgrade over E&B Valley, and still a distinct upgrade over Bowser and Kato--far better grab irons. I haven't yet seen a Bowser paint job that had accurate lettering, so I have a low opinion of those cars and have built Katos instead. But I think the IM cars will be a serious piece of progress.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Marty McGuirk
 

Wow,

We're finally at a point when I'm not completely sure what the next freight car from Intermountain will be!

Marty
Eric Mumper <ericmumper@...>
 

Tony,

Thank you for the reply. I anticipate some discrepancy with regards
to latches and roof details and need to organize my reference
material to deal with that in the future. As has been noted on this
list before, there is nothing like picking up the phone and talking
directly to the source. Intermountain claims these are 1 to 2 weeks
from being in house and available on the first run.

Eric Mumper

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Eric Mumper wrote:
Just went over to the Intermountain website and it looks like the
new
1958 cuft covered hoppers are available and the site has pictures
of
actual models - not just drawings. Has anyone seen these and can
anyone comment on their accuracy and quality of assembly? Always
want
to ask this since first runs can have "issues".
I saw a couple of complete models at the SP Society convention
last
month. They looked excellent, with fine grab iron detail like the
Kadee
PS-2 models. Of course that's not a measure of production.
Accuracy, as
Tim O'Connor pointed out a few days ago, depends on your prototype:
does it have double latch "fingers" or single? double latch bars on
each side or single? is the roof smooth, riveted or ribbed? As for
"now" I don't think you're right. Frank Angstead of Intermountain
said
they HOPED they would have the first batch in by Christmas. But if
anyone knows more, please enlighten us.

Currently there are about 150 of the Bowser/Kato/E&B Valley cars
moving silica sand around my layout and an upgrade would be nice.
They will be an immense upgrade over E&B Valley, and still
a
distinct upgrade over Bowser and Kato--far better grab irons. I
haven't
yet seen a Bowser paint job that had accurate lettering, so I have
a
low opinion of those cars and have built Katos instead. But I think
the
IM cars will be a serious piece of progress.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Eric Mumper wrote:
As has been noted on this list before, there is nothing like picking up the phone and talking directly to the source. Intermountain claims these are 1 to 2 weeks from being in house and available on the first run.
Since I talked to Frank Angstead, IM's president, just two weeks ago, one could believe that was "the source," but in reality Frank is an accountant and does not really know a great deal about prototypes or even about production details. Your news that they are so close is GOOD news. I think most modelers will be blown away by these new cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Tim O'Connor
 

Yeah, probably all 700 or 800 actual modelers left on the planet will
be very excited... :-)

Tim O'Connor

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>

I think most modelers will be blown away by these new cars.
Bill Schneider <branchline@...>
 

Tim, good point although your numbers are off. Through careful market research we have determined that the actual number of modelers left is 1,235.
 
The number who still build kits is currently 52. Unless of course you've stopped too.... ;>)
 
Bill Schneider (who's up WAY too late dealing with China!)

--- On Thu, 10/16/08, timboconnor@... <timboconnor@...> wrote:

From: timboconnor@... <timboconnor@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 4:28 PM







Yeah, probably all 700 or 800 actual modelers left on the planet will
be very excited... :-)

Tim O'Connor

------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- -
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturep ress.com>

I think most modelers will be blown away by these new cars.













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
armprem
 

Bill,Then should we stop using the term "modeler" and start using,"collector".Better make that 53, <G>,Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Schneider" <branchline@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers


Tim, good point although your numbers are off. Through careful market research we have determined that the actual number of modelers left is 1,235.

The number who still build kits is currently 52. Unless of course you've stopped too.... ;>)

Bill Schneider (who's up WAY too late dealing with China!)

--- On Thu, 10/16/08, timboconnor@... <timboconnor@...> wrote:

From: timboconnor@... <timboconnor@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 4:28 PM







Yeah, probably all 700 or 800 actual modelers left on the planet will
be very excited... :-)

Tim O'Connor

------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- -
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturep ress.com>

I think most modelers will be blown away by these new cars.
















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Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
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armprem
 

Bill,Maybe we should stop using the term,"Modelers" and use "Collectors" instead.BTW,better make that 53_. :-) ),Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Schneider" <branchline@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers


Tim, good point although your numbers are off. Through careful market research we have determined that the actual number of modelers left is 1,235.

The number who still build kits is currently 52. Unless of course you've stopped too.... ;>)

Bill Schneider (who's up WAY too late dealing with China!)

--- On Thu, 10/16/08, timboconnor@... <timboconnor@...> wrote:

From: timboconnor@... <timboconnor@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 4:28 PM







Yeah, probably all 700 or 800 actual modelers left on the planet will
be very excited... :-)

Tim O'Connor

------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- -
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturep ress.com>

I think most modelers will be blown away by these new cars.
















------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1720 - Release Date: 10/11/2008 3:59 PM
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

You guys are depressing me. There are >100 guys I know on both coasts, that
love building kits and bring lots of models to meets. They are just
outnumbered by the many that now buy RTR exclusively, and those of us that
buy and enjoy both. There would be no resin kit manufacturers, either, if
there weren't thousands of guys that like kit building.



If the economics of the hobby now dictate that plastic kits are not going to
pay the bills, it is sad, but Bill, I have well over a hundred of your kits,
and love them.



Elden Gatwood





________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Armand Premo
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:27 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers



Bill,Maybe we should stop using the term,"Modelers" and use "Collectors"
instead.BTW,better make that 53_. :-) ),Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Schneider" <branchline@...
<mailto:branchline%40sbcglobal.net> >
To: <STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

Tim, good point although your numbers are off. Through careful market
research we have determined that the actual number of modelers left is
1,235.

The number who still build kits is currently 52. Unless of course you've
stopped too.... ;>)

Bill Schneider (who's up WAY too late dealing with China!)

--- On Thu, 10/16/08, timboconnor@...
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> <timboconnor@...
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
wrote:

From: timboconnor@... <mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net>
<timboconnor@... <mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
Subject: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 4:28 PM

Yeah, probably all 700 or 800 actual modelers left on the planet will
be very excited... :-)

Tim O'Connor

------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- -
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturep ress.com>

I think most modelers will be blown away by these new cars.


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

----------------------------------------------------------

Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1720 - Release Date: 10/11/2008
3:59 PM
asychis@...
 

Tim,

How about giving all those kits to a local orphanage, school, cub scout
pack, etc. and spread the model railroad virus to some of them? You can take a
tax write off for the donation (full original list price?). Sure, they are
not state of the art products, but a lot of kids might enjoy building these
"entry-level" kits. Seems to me like a very good way to help engender that next
generation of modelers who will buy kits. I've done this with some kids in
our area. Not only Athearn blue box but some Branchline and Red Caboose kits
too that I knew I'd never build. I also give away my old Model Railroader
and Scale Rails to kids. They love it! Having a month-old issue of MR or SR
is better than having no magazines to read.

Jerry Michels
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
Bill Schneider <branchline@...>
 

Relax Elden, I made my comment with tongue firmly planted in cheek!

Certainly RTR is a major force in today's market, but there is still a market for kits. One of the things that intrigues me from "this side of the fence" is the number of dealers that I talk to that will not carry kits, and the number of modelers I talk to that want but can not find kits... Hmmmmm... do these guys talk?

Bill (who included himself in the 52....)

----- Original Message -----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:37 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers


You guys are depressing me. There are >100 guys I know on both coasts, that
love building kits and bring lots of models to meets. They are just
outnumbered by the many that now buy RTR exclusively, and those of us that
buy and enjoy both. There would be no resin kit manufacturers, either, if
there weren't thousands of guys that like kit building.

If the economics of the hobby now dictate that plastic kits are not going to
pay the bills, it is sad, but Bill, I have well over a hundred of your kits,
and love them.

Elden Gatwood

________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Armand Premo
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:27 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

Bill,Maybe we should stop using the term,"Modelers" and use "Collectors"
instead.BTW,better make that 53_. :-) ),Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Schneider" <branchline@...
<mailto:branchline%40sbcglobal.net> >
To: <STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

Tim, good point although your numbers are off. Through careful market
research we have determined that the actual number of modelers left is
1,235.

The number who still build kits is currently 52. Unless of course you've
stopped too.... ;>)

Bill Schneider (who's up WAY too late dealing with China!)

--- On Thu, 10/16/08, timboconnor@...
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> <timboconnor@...
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
wrote:

From: timboconnor@... <mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net>
<timboconnor@... <mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
Subject: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 4:28 PM

Yeah, probably all 700 or 800 actual modelers left on the planet will
be very excited... :-)

Tim O'Connor

------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- -
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturep ress.com>

>> I think most modelers will be blown away by these new cars.



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

----------------------------------------------------------

Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1720 - Release Date: 10/11/2008
3:59 PM
Tim O'Connor
 

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@...>
You guys are depressing me. There are >100 guys I know on both coasts, that
love building kits and bring lots of models to meets. They are just
outnumbered by the many that now buy RTR exclusively, and those of us that
buy and enjoy both. There would be no resin kit manufacturers, either, if
there weren't thousands of guys that like kit building.
I sure hope you're right... I've been assessing my Dad's huge collection
of unbuilt Athearn and other foobie kits (somewhere on the order of 1,000
or so) and contemplating trying to sell them... I was startled to learn on the
USPS web site that it now costs $10 to mail a 2 lb box to California* from
Massachusetts, and $5 for 1 lb. I figure I'll be lucky to get $3-$4 on Ebay
for a kit... even though many of them cost $10 or more 10-15 years ago,
as most of them are custom decorated (Bev-Bel etc). Gad.

Maybe I should just do the hobby a favor and grind them up for compost.

Tim O'Connor
Drowning in Blue Boxes...

* Think about that price -- that's $10,000/ton from MA to CA! I could lease
a private jet for that much.
Tim O'Connor
 

I have to order kits through dealers now. Many of them loaded up their
shelves with foobie kits, and then the inventory sat collecting dust for
years and they don't want to repeat that and I find that understandable.

I work with a bunch of 20 to 40-somethings and ALL of them are into
video games -- most of them are married with children, and yet they
waste hours playing video games and even growse about what a waste
of time it is. Most of them have more than one game system -- PS/2,
XBox, Wii, etc. As far as I know none of them has ever built a model
of anything... It's not in their DNA.

Tim

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Bill Schneider" <branchline@...>
Relax Elden, I made my comment with tongue firmly planted in cheek!

Certainly RTR is a major force in today's market, but there is still a market
for kits. One of the things that intrigues me from "this side of the fence" is
the number of dealers that I talk to that will not carry kits, and the number of
modelers I talk to that want but can not find kits... Hmmmmm... do these guys
talk?

Bill (who included himself in the 52....)

----- Original Message -----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:37 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers


You guys are depressing me. There are >100 guys I know on both coasts, that
love building kits and bring lots of models to meets. They are just
outnumbered by the many that now buy RTR exclusively, and those of us that
buy and enjoy both. There would be no resin kit manufacturers, either, if
there weren't thousands of guys that like kit building.

If the economics of the hobby now dictate that plastic kits are not going to
pay the bills, it is sad, but Bill, I have well over a hundred of your kits,
and love them.

Elden Gatwood
al_brown03
 

Okay, I give. What is this "foobie"? Sounds like something on a
vestie's watch chain.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@... wrote:


I have to order kits through dealers now. Many of them loaded up
their
shelves with foobie kits, and then the inventory sat collecting
dust for
years and they don't want to repeat that and I find that
understandable.

I work with a bunch of 20 to 40-somethings and ALL of them are into
video games -- most of them are married with children, and yet they
waste hours playing video games and even growse about what a waste
of time it is. Most of them have more than one game system -- PS/2,
XBox, Wii, etc. As far as I know none of them has ever built a model
of anything... It's not in their DNA.

Tim


-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Bill Schneider" <branchline@...>
Relax Elden, I made my comment with tongue firmly planted in
cheek!

Certainly RTR is a major force in today's market, but there is
still a market
for kits. One of the things that intrigues me from "this side of
the fence" is
the number of dealers that I talk to that will not carry kits,
and the number of
modelers I talk to that want but can not find kits... Hmmmmm...
do these guys
talk?

Bill (who included himself in the 52....)

----- Original Message -----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:37 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers


You guys are depressing me. There are >100 guys I know on both
coasts, that
love building kits and bring lots of models to meets. They are
just
outnumbered by the many that now buy RTR exclusively, and those
of us that
buy and enjoy both. There would be no resin kit manufacturers,
either, if
there weren't thousands of guys that like kit building.

If the economics of the hobby now dictate that plastic kits are
not going to
pay the bills, it is sad, but Bill, I have well over a hundred
of your kits,
and love them.

Elden Gatwood
Mark
 

Tim you might want to sell them in lots. Thats the only way I could except some sells at the club.
Good Luck
 
Sincerely, Mark Morgan

--- On Fri, 10/17/08, timboconnor@... <timboconnor@...> wrote:

From: timboconnor@... <timboconnor@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 9:23 AM






------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- -
From: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@ usace.army. mil>
You guys are depressing me. There are >100 guys I know on both coasts, that
love building kits and bring lots of models to meets. They are just
outnumbered by the many that now buy RTR exclusively, and those of us that
buy and enjoy both. There would be no resin kit manufacturers, either, if
there weren't thousands of guys that like kit building.
I sure hope you're right... I've been assessing my Dad's huge collection
of unbuilt Athearn and other foobie kits (somewhere on the order of 1,000
or so) and contemplating trying to sell them... I was startled to learn on the
USPS web site that it now costs $10 to mail a 2 lb box to California* from
Massachusetts, and $5 for 1 lb. I figure I'll be lucky to get $3-$4 on Ebay
for a kit... even though many of them cost $10 or more 10-15 years ago,
as most of them are custom decorated (Bev-Bel etc). Gad.

Maybe I should just do the hobby a favor and grind them up for compost.

Tim O'Connor
Drowning in Blue Boxes...

* Think about that price -- that's $10,000/ton from MA to CA! I could lease
a private jet for that much.















__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bill, I figured you were, but the truth of what is going on is kind of sad.



The vast majority of us that model are now "older" (at least than we care to
think), and part of a group growing smaller by the day. I am 52, and find
that most of the model builders I know are either in that age group or older.
I know that some people, particularly those in the industry, find this
frightening, yet we continue to see new products, and of higher quality, with
each passing day. I am astounded and happy that we have so much to choose
from. It sure was not like this when I was a young model railroader. I hope
it can continue.



Tim is right; it is not in the interest of those under 40. My son, who is
11, likes models, but will not take the time (even though I keep trying to
show him) to build anything. He is addicted to video, and loves to build
worlds (like in Empire Builder), that produce nothing real. I find that
disheartening, but I can't be mad at him. The video world is shiny, easy,
requires no investment of skills, and to them, is much more interesting than
something like model railroading.



Unfortunately, my son (and his friends) has nothing except a few school
projects, that he has built himself. He has little to no interest in
developing building skills. This also, unfortunately, extends into his
entire generation (I know his friends well, having also coached them in
Little League), and also into anything else useful like auto mechanics, home
repair, etc. He and his friends were also introduced to these kind of things
in Cub Scouts (I was also there), and pursued none of it. I do not know what
the solution to this is, as the world is not just computers.



My local hobby shop folks tell me that they can't sell kits on a rapid enough
basis to pay for them to keep them on the shelves, and sell RTR at a "10 to
1" ratio. I guess that is what dictates your current business model.



But Bill, what you said is also very true, the guys that work at the LHS, and
all the guys I talk to, are all upset about the "demise of the kit". I
stocked up on a whole batch of your Blueline kits before they all go RTR!



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
timboconnor@...
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers




I have to order kits through dealers now. Many of them loaded up their
shelves with foobie kits, and then the inventory sat collecting dust for
years and they don't want to repeat that and I find that understandable.

I work with a bunch of 20 to 40-somethings and ALL of them are into
video games -- most of them are married with children, and yet they
waste hours playing video games and even growse about what a waste
of time it is. Most of them have more than one game system -- PS/2,
XBox, Wii, etc. As far as I know none of them has ever built a model
of anything... It's not in their DNA.

Tim

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Bill Schneider" <branchline@...
<mailto:branchline%40sbcglobal.net> >
Relax Elden, I made my comment with tongue firmly planted in cheek!

Certainly RTR is a major force in today's market, but there is still a
market
for kits. One of the things that intrigues me from "this side of the fence"
is
the number of dealers that I talk to that will not carry kits, and the
number of
modelers I talk to that want but can not find kits... Hmmmmm... do these
guys
talk?

Bill (who included himself in the 52....)

----- Original Message -----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:37 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers


You guys are depressing me. There are >100 guys I know on both coasts, that
love building kits and bring lots of models to meets. They are just
outnumbered by the many that now buy RTR exclusively, and those of us that
buy and enjoy both. There would be no resin kit manufacturers, either, if
there weren't thousands of guys that like kit building.

If the economics of the hobby now dictate that plastic kits are not going
to
pay the bills, it is sad, but Bill, I have well over a hundred of your
kits,
and love them.

Elden Gatwood
Tim O'Connor
 

From the Random Hose Model RR Dictionary:

Foobie (Foo-bee), noun: A model kit or ready to run that purports to
represent an actual prototype railroad car but in fact is incorrect either
in the manner of decoration or the physical details of the car itself, or
most often, both. Not to be confused with merely mediocre models.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "al_brown03" <abrown@...>
Okay, I give. What is this "foobie"? Sounds like something on a
vestie's watch chain.
Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.
Bob McCarthy
 

Elden,
 
     Your commentary is accurate and has been developed by parents who have a tv in every room.  Recently, my sister-in-law who brought my mother-in-law for a stay brought a tv for mom so she could lay on her bed and watch tv.
 
     We only have cable in the living room and none in bedrooms.  Why, because people do not communicate with each other or actively try to teach their children about life by demon- stration - ie, reading, playing music  TOGETHER.

--- On Fri, 10/17/08, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 3:24 PM






Bill, I figured you were, but the truth of what is going on is kind of sad.

The vast majority of us that model are now "older" (at least than we care to
think), and part of a group growing smaller by the day. I am 52, and find
that most of the model builders I know are either in that age group or older.
I know that some people, particularly those in the industry, find this
frightening, yet we continue to see new products, and of higher quality, with
each passing day. I am astounded and happy that we have so much to choose
from. It sure was not like this when I was a young model railroader. I hope
it can continue.

Tim is right; it is not in the interest of those under 40. My son, who is
11, likes models, but will not take the time (even though I keep trying to
show him) to build anything. He is addicted to video, and loves to build
worlds (like in Empire Builder), that produce nothing real. I find that
disheartening, but I can't be mad at him. The video world is shiny, easy,
requires no investment of skills, and to them, is much more interesting than
something like model railroading.

Unfortunately, my son (and his friends) has nothing except a few school
projects, that he has built himself. He has little to no interest in
developing building skills. This also, unfortunately, extends into his
entire generation (I know his friends well, having also coached them in
Little League), and also into anything else useful like auto mechanics, home
repair, etc. He and his friends were also introduced to these kind of things
in Cub Scouts (I was also there), and pursued none of it. I do not know what
the solution to this is, as the world is not just computers.

My local hobby shop folks tell me that they can't sell kits on a rapid enough
basis to pay for them to keep them on the shelves, and sell RTR at a "10 to
1" ratio. I guess that is what dictates your current business model.

But Bill, what you said is also very true, the guys that work at the LHS, and
all the guys I talk to, are all upset about the "demise of the kit". I
stocked up on a whole batch of your Blueline kits before they all go RTR!

Elden Gatwood

____________ _________ _________ __

From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
timboconnor@ comcast.net
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

I have to order kits through dealers now. Many of them loaded up their
shelves with foobie kits, and then the inventory sat collecting dust for
years and they don't want to repeat that and I find that understandable.

I work with a bunch of 20 to 40-somethings and ALL of them are into
video games -- most of them are married with children, and yet they
waste hours playing video games and even growse about what a waste
of time it is. Most of them have more than one game system -- PS/2,
XBox, Wii, etc. As far as I know none of them has ever built a model
of anything... It's not in their DNA.

Tim

------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- -
From: "Bill Schneider" <branchline@sbcgloba l.net
<mailto:branchline% 40sbcglobal. net> >
Relax Elden, I made my comment with tongue firmly planted in cheek!

Certainly RTR is a major force in today's market, but there is still a
market
for kits. One of the things that intrigues me from "this side of the fence"
is
the number of dealers that I talk to that will not carry kits, and the
number of
modelers I talk to that want but can not find kits... Hmmmmm... do these
guys
talk?

Bill (who included himself in the 52....)

----- Original Message -----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:37 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers


You guys are depressing me. There are >100 guys I know on both coasts, that
love building kits and bring lots of models to meets. They are just
outnumbered by the many that now buy RTR exclusively, and those of us that
buy and enjoy both. There would be no resin kit manufacturers, either, if
there weren't thousands of guys that like kit building.

If the economics of the hobby now dictate that plastic kits are not going
to
pay the bills, it is sad, but Bill, I have well over a hundred of your
kits,
and love them.

Elden Gatwood
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]















__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bob McCarthy
 

Elden,
 
     Your commentary is accurate and has been developed by parents who have a tv in every room.  Recently, my sister-in-law who brought my mother-in-law for a stay brought a tv for mom so she could lay on her bed and watch tv.
 
     We only have cable in the living room and none in bedrooms.  Why, because people do not communicate with each other or actively try to teach their children about life by demon- stration - ie, reading, playing music  TOGETHER.

--- On Fri, 10/17/08, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 3:24 PM






Bill, I figured you were, but the truth of what is going on is kind of sad.

The vast majority of us that model are now "older" (at least than we care to
think), and part of a group growing smaller by the day. I am 52, and find
that most of the model builders I know are either in that age group or older.
I know that some people, particularly those in the industry, find this
frightening, yet we continue to see new products, and of higher quality, with
each passing day. I am astounded and happy that we have so much to choose
from. It sure was not like this when I was a young model railroader. I hope
it can continue.

Tim is right; it is not in the interest of those under 40. My son, who is
11, likes models, but will not take the time (even though I keep trying to
show him) to build anything. He is addicted to video, and loves to build
worlds (like in Empire Builder), that produce nothing real. I find that
disheartening, but I can't be mad at him. The video world is shiny, easy,
requires no investment of skills, and to them, is much more interesting than
something like model railroading.

Unfortunately, my son (and his friends) has nothing except a few school
projects, that he has built himself. He has little to no interest in
developing building skills. This also, unfortunately, extends into his
entire generation (I know his friends well, having also coached them in
Little League), and also into anything else useful like auto mechanics, home
repair, etc. He and his friends were also introduced to these kind of things
in Cub Scouts (I was also there), and pursued none of it. I do not know what
the solution to this is, as the world is not just computers.

My local hobby shop folks tell me that they can't sell kits on a rapid enough
basis to pay for them to keep them on the shelves, and sell RTR at a "10 to
1" ratio. I guess that is what dictates your current business model.

But Bill, what you said is also very true, the guys that work at the LHS, and
all the guys I talk to, are all upset about the "demise of the kit". I
stocked up on a whole batch of your Blueline kits before they all go RTR!

Elden Gatwood

____________ _________ _________ __

From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
timboconnor@ comcast.net
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 9:33 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

I have to order kits through dealers now. Many of them loaded up their
shelves with foobie kits, and then the inventory sat collecting dust for
years and they don't want to repeat that and I find that understandable.

I work with a bunch of 20 to 40-somethings and ALL of them are into
video games -- most of them are married with children, and yet they
waste hours playing video games and even growse about what a waste
of time it is. Most of them have more than one game system -- PS/2,
XBox, Wii, etc. As far as I know none of them has ever built a model
of anything... It's not in their DNA.

Tim

------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- -
From: "Bill Schneider" <branchline@sbcgloba l.net
<mailto:branchline% 40sbcglobal. net> >
Relax Elden, I made my comment with tongue firmly planted in cheek!

Certainly RTR is a major force in today's market, but there is still a
market
for kits. One of the things that intrigues me from "this side of the fence"
is
the number of dealers that I talk to that will not carry kits, and the
number of
modelers I talk to that want but can not find kits... Hmmmmm... do these
guys
talk?

Bill (who included himself in the 52....)

----- Original Message -----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:37 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers


You guys are depressing me. There are >100 guys I know on both coasts, that
love building kits and bring lots of models to meets. They are just
outnumbered by the many that now buy RTR exclusively, and those of us that
buy and enjoy both. There would be no resin kit manufacturers, either, if
there weren't thousands of guys that like kit building.

If the economics of the hobby now dictate that plastic kits are not going
to
pay the bills, it is sad, but Bill, I have well over a hundred of your
kits,
and love them.

Elden Gatwood
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]















__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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