36' Fowler/Dominion cars and "almosts"...


destron@...
 

I've been poking around trying to compile a list of 36' "Fowler" cars...
I've gotten to a stage now where I've got a short list of definitely
Fowler/Dominion cars, and a longer list of possibles (of which I'm sure a
number are actually DS cars, but can't tell that from the ORER info...)

For the cars I'm sure are Fowlers or almost-those, the list is (* marks
those I've got photos for):

CN, various series
CP, various series

Algoma Central 3001-3020, 3051-3080
BAR 9000-9699*, 9800-10399
DW&P 400800-401549
Erie 86000-86999, 93000-93999*
Fc. Mexicano 8100-8199*
GTW 417500-420149*, 440300-440627
NC&StL 16100-16599*, 13500-15099, 15100-16099
NdeM 65700-65800*
New York, Susquehanna & Western 1500-1563*
Piedmont & Northern 12000-12074*
Quebec Central 3100-3198*
Quebec Rly, Light & Power 1016-1029, 1100-1109, 1110-1119
Roberval-Saguenay 536-537
SOO 12800-14298*
Sydney & Louisburg 102-115
TEM 80000-80098, 80100-80198, 80200-80398, 80400-80498*
TH&B 3000-3132, 4000-4301*
WM 28002-28003 (ex-Erie)

Now, the others I'm not certain of, but tend to assume so based on
evidence of other Fowler series with the road (or with the parent/close
relative road):

BAR 8100-8599, 8700-8799
CNJ 14000-14499 (drawing seems to suggest it)
CV 70731-71730, 71800-72049
DSS&A 11067-11569
NC&StL 24500-24599
SOO 28312+28456, 106600-107908, 108056-109908
M&StL 26000-26400
WAB 78000-78199 (read about these, are they 36' or 40'?)

And these are the "just guessing" that might well be DS cars or other
unrelated things:

Ala., Tenn. & Northern 15001-15150
Ann Arbor 69000-69286
B&M 12138-12258, 12301-12392, 64682-68247, 68317, 68333-68390
Belt Rly of Chicago 802-850, 852-862
C&EI 37002-37748, 635-699
Canton RR 400-420
CIL 2000-3600 (or were these the Monon SU cars?)
Clinchfield 3300-3833
Delaware & Northern 501-551
Detroit & Mackinac 2751
DMIR 5342-5390
FW&D 4400-5299
GM&O 43000-43299 (or were these SU cars?)
Kentucky & Tennessee 304-306
L&A 1851-1859
L&N 4000-5049, 5350-5549, 5050-5199, 5300-5349, 5550-5999, 6001-6999,
7000-7182, 7300-7499, 9000-9799
Lake Superior & Ishpeming 2026
Manistique & Lake Superior 50-52
Manufacturers Junction 1040-1049
Minnesota, Dakota & Western 3004-3005
Mississippi Central 4000-4109
MKTT 170000-170228
MN&S 2501-2510
Montana, Wyoming & Southern 326-569
NdeM 44000-44016, 13503-13515
NdeT 2010-3595
NKP 97000-97999
NYO&W 9201-9907
Reading 2000-3999, 14500-14999, 15700-15999, 17500-18479, 18500-18699
SN 2101-2105, 2249
SPdeM 8304-8820
Tremont & Gulf 476, 666, 674
Wyandotte Terminal 38, 80, 82, 84

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC


Mark P.
 

Frank,

Here's a photo of Erie 86554 to add to your collection. <http://replica.palni.edu/u?/winona,38> This was taken on the Winona [IN] Railroad in northern Indiana.

Mark Plank

----- Original Message -----


I've been poking around trying to compile a list of 36' "Fowler" cars...
<big snip>
Erie 86000-86999, 93000-93999*
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rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

M&StL 26000-26400
These were DS cars with TR underframes and at least 3 different ends.
There's a photo of one in an RP Cyc.
Clark Propst


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., destron@... wrote:

I've been poking around trying to compile a list of 36' "Fowler" cars...
I've gotten to a stage now where I've got a short list of definitely
Fowler/Dominion cars, and a longer list of possibles (of which I'm
sure a
number are actually DS cars, but can't tell that from the ORER info...)

SOO 12800-14298*
Correct.

Now, the others I'm not certain of, but tend to assume so based on
evidence of other Fowler series with the road (or with the parent/close
relative road):
DSS&A 11067-11569
DS wood underframe cars. The South Shore had no single sheathed cars
whatsoever.

SOO 28312+28456, 106600-107908, 108056-109908
28300-28498 (even) 30 ton DS wood automobile cars built by AC&F in 1910

106600-107908 (even) 30 ton DS boxcars built in 1905 - 06 for
Wisconsin Central and renumbered; can't find the builder without the
original WC numbers.

108056-109908 (even) 30 ton DS boxcar built in 1908 - 09 for WC.


Dennis


Michael Aufderheide
 

--- On Tue, 11/4/08, destron@... <destron@...> wrote:


<CIL 2000-3600 (or were these the Monon SU cars?)The SU cars were different cars, the 8000 series, retired by the end of 1940.  The 36 ft howe truss cars were in three series due to rebuilding:Originally 2000-2899 blt Haskell & Barker 1912-14 (gone by 1942)
3149-3339 rebuilt from 2000 series 1927 (new ends) (gone by 1942)3400-3600 rebuilt from 2000 series  1927 (no reason why on diagram) (gone by 1949)
 Some were also converted to stock cars: 6200-6249.The boxcars are similar to the NC&StL 15100-16099  series (XM-17?)and there has been speculation that the Monon piggybacked an order with them.  The Monon cars are 1" shorter at 8'-0" and have a cu ft of  2482 built in 1912-14.  I don't know what the NC&StL build dates are for comparison.
Regards,Mike Aufderheide





















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Charlie Vlk
 

I don't know how they fit into the taxonomy of "Fowler" cars, but comparing the Fowler CN cars with a CB&Q SM18 36' stock car they are very close structurally and architecturally, varying
only in spacing of slats and placards, door style, etc..
They share the nearly the same steel side truss arrangement and have almost identical top caps over the end braces. The Q cars may just have these similarities by accident,
(they were built on underframes salvaged from early steel GS bottom dump gons) as the SM18s look like they evolved from earlier classes of composite and wood cars.... but the Fowlers look to me closer in appearance than other road's stock cars overall.
Charlie Vlk


destron@...
 

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

Does anyone know of photos of the Roberval-Saguenay, Quebec Rly Light &
Power, DW&P and Sydney & Louisburg cars? Also, whether they were Fowlers
or not, I'd be interested in locating photos of the Wyandotte Terminal
cars in the list.

Charlie, what number series were the SM18s? If they're that close to the
CN Fowler stock cars, I think there could be a model there.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

I don't know how they fit into the taxonomy of "Fowler" cars, but
comparing the Fowler CN cars with a CB&Q SM18 36' stock car they are very
close structurally and architecturally, varying
only in spacing of slats and placards, door style, etc..
They share the nearly the same steel side truss arrangement and have
almost identical top caps over the end braces. The Q cars may just have
these similarities by accident,
(they were built on underframes salvaged from early steel GS bottom dump
gons) as the SM18s look like they evolved from earlier classes of
composite and wood cars.... but the Fowlers look to me closer in
appearance than other road's stock cars overall.
Charlie Vlk




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Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC


al_brown03
 

BAR 9000-9699*, 9800-10399
BAR 9838: NEB&W Guide, 96.2 edition, p133
BAR 10045: MRR 3/99 p139 (in "State of Maine" paint!)

NC&StL 16100-16599*, 13500-15099, 15100-16099
NC&StL 15454: "Focus on Freight Cars v 1", p46
NC&StL 15337: "Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual v1", p12

CNJ 14000-14499 (drawing seems to suggest it)
CNJ 14087: Kline and Culotta, "Postwar Freight Car Fleet", p27

M&StL 26000-26400
M&StL 26250: RP CYC 4 p5
Double-sheathed car with truss rods.

Ann Arbor 69000-69286
AA 69109: PRM 2 p7. Double sheathed.

B&M 12138-12258, 12301-12392, 64682-68247, 68317, 68333-68390
B&M 65387: Jones, "B&M: Forest River & Mountain", p152
B&M 65815: Nimke, "Rutland v7", p129
Double sheathed.

CIL 2000-3600 (or were these the Monon SU cars?)
CI&L 3516: MM 4/86 p57

More later.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


al_brown03
 

--- In STMFC@..., destron@... wrote:


Clinchfield 3300-3833
CC&O 3350: Vintage Rails 5-6/99 p70. Double sheathed.

L&N 4000-5049, 5350-5549, 5050-5199, 5300-5349, 5550-5999,
6001-6999, 7000-7182, 7300-7499, 9000-9799
L&N 4170: Johnson, "Through the Heart of the South", p145.
L&N 5362: Vintage Rails 9-10/99 p48.
L&N 7070: Nimke, "Connecticut River Railroads v 8", p87.
All double sheathed.

Mississippi Central 4000-4109
MSC 4026: Trains 9/91 p33. Double-sheathed car with truss rods.

-- HTH --

-- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., destron@... wrote:


I've been poking around trying to compile a list of 36' "Fowler"
cars...
I've gotten to a stage now where I've got a short list of definitely
Fowler/Dominion cars, and a longer list of possibles (of which I'm
sure a
number are actually DS cars, but can't tell that from the ORER
info...)

For the cars I'm sure are Fowlers or almost-those, the list is (*
marks
those I've got photos for):

CN, various series
CP, various series

Algoma Central 3001-3020, 3051-3080
BAR 9000-9699*, 9800-10399
DW&P 400800-401549
Erie 86000-86999, 93000-93999*
Fc. Mexicano 8100-8199*
GTW 417500-420149*, 440300-440627
NC&StL 16100-16599*, 13500-15099, 15100-16099
NdeM 65700-65800*
New York, Susquehanna & Western 1500-1563*
Piedmont & Northern 12000-12074*
Quebec Central 3100-3198*
Quebec Rly, Light & Power 1016-1029, 1100-1109, 1110-1119
Roberval-Saguenay 536-537
SOO 12800-14298*
Sydney & Louisburg 102-115
TEM 80000-80098, 80100-80198, 80200-80398, 80400-80498*
TH&B 3000-3132, 4000-4301*
WM 28002-28003 (ex-Erie)

Now, the others I'm not certain of, but tend to assume so based on
evidence of other Fowler series with the road (or with the
parent/close
relative road):

BAR 8100-8599, 8700-8799
CNJ 14000-14499 (drawing seems to suggest it)
CV 70731-71730, 71800-72049
DSS&A 11067-11569
NC&StL 24500-24599
SOO 28312+28456, 106600-107908, 108056-109908
M&StL 26000-26400
WAB 78000-78199 (read about these, are they 36' or 40'?)

And these are the "just guessing" that might well be DS cars or
other
unrelated things:

Ala., Tenn. & Northern 15001-15150
Ann Arbor 69000-69286
B&M 12138-12258, 12301-12392, 64682-68247, 68317, 68333-68390
Belt Rly of Chicago 802-850, 852-862
C&EI 37002-37748, 635-699
Canton RR 400-420
CIL 2000-3600 (or were these the Monon SU cars?)
Clinchfield 3300-3833
Delaware & Northern 501-551
Detroit & Mackinac 2751
DMIR 5342-5390
FW&D 4400-5299
GM&O 43000-43299 (or were these SU cars?)
Kentucky & Tennessee 304-306
L&A 1851-1859
L&N 4000-5049, 5350-5549, 5050-5199, 5300-5349, 5550-5999, 6001-
6999,
7000-7182, 7300-7499, 9000-9799
Lake Superior & Ishpeming 2026
Manistique & Lake Superior 50-52
Manufacturers Junction 1040-1049
Minnesota, Dakota & Western 3004-3005
Mississippi Central 4000-4109
MKTT 170000-170228
MN&S 2501-2510
Montana, Wyoming & Southern 326-569
NdeM 44000-44016, 13503-13515
NdeT 2010-3595
NKP 97000-97999
NYO&W 9201-9907
Reading 2000-3999, 14500-14999, 15700-15999, 17500-18479, 18500-
18699
SN 2101-2105, 2249
SPdeM 8304-8820
Tremont & Gulf 476, 666, 674
Wyandotte Terminal 38, 80, 82, 84

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC
Hi Frank

The NEB&W web site lists the DW&P 400800-401549 series as double
sheathed, built by Haskell & Barker in 1917. They were originally in
the 30000-31498 series; the 1932 ORER lists cars in both series.

Here are some additional cars that are Fowler, Fowler-like, or 36'
single-sheathed:

B&O 178500-178841, 190300-190398 (Former CI&W 18301-18650, 19201-
19300, Fowler, MM, Apr. 1986)
BAR 10000-10139 (SS, Al Brown, STMFC #75622, 8/24/08)
The Belt Railway Co. of Chicago 801-850 (SS, Jan. 1938 ORER, p. 486)
CGW 27000-27998 (SS, AC&F photo of 27904, lot 7504)
Central Railroad Company of Pennsylvania 14000-14499 (Fowler-like,
NEB&W web site)
ERIE 80995, 85000-85999 (SS or Fowler-like, MM, Apr. 1986)
GA 18500-18674 (SS, Jan. 1938 ORER, p. 97)
GT 100000-102999 (in 1932 ORER GTW, but with GT markings) (Fowler,
Westerfield web site)
IC 11000-11344 (SS, 1927 IC equipment list – personal communication
from Ray Breyer)
ITC 8000-8199 (Fowler or Fowler-like, NEB&W web site)
Chicago South Shore & South Bend R.R., 1501-1505 (Fowler or Fowler-
like, NEB&W web site)
NH 70000-70999, 170000-170999 (Built as DS, but rebuilt as SS in 1927-
1928, Westerfield 10500 series)
NKP 97000-97999 (Former TStL&W 7000-7999, Fowler, MM, Apr. 1986)
Pittsburg, Shawmut and Northern 9900-9949 (SS, personal communication
from Ray Breyer)
SB&M 1254-2050 (SS, NEB&W web site)
WABASH 75000-77199 (SS 36' 5", Jan. 1938 ORER, p. 444, AC&F photos of
75699 and 76200, lots 6615 and 8063)
WABASH 77200-78199 (SS 36' 5", Jan. 1938 ORER, p. 444)

Many of your hypothesized Fowler cars are DS: CV, AT&N, AA,
Clinchfield, FW&D, L&N, MD&W, MSC, MKTT, NYO&W, RDG, and T&G.
(Sources: NEB&W web site or STMFC posts.)

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh,
Laramie, Wyoming


cinderandeight@...
 

I won't begin to claim any deep knowledge of Fowler cars, but I noted the
list was missing Pacific Great Eastern. Their ORER listing in Jan. 1948
says:"freight cars owned are only used in switching service with direct connections";
an earlier listing (Oct. 1937) states "cars are not employed in interstate
commerce".. I have four shots of PGE stock cars (555, 562, 575 & 588), all of
which look like Fowler cars.
Rich Burg
**************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other
Holiday needs. Search Now.
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destron@...
 

Yeah, of the stock cars I hadn't yet started - I was sticking with boxcars
for the moment - I have photos of Quebec Central, PGE and other Canadian
Fowler stock cars, too.

But you did remind me that there's the PGE cars, too. The January 1953
ORER listing only mentions 3510 and 3511, but I have a scan of a photo (I
think from a CBC) of #3529 that clearly shows a Fowler. I don't know what
the full number series was, as nothing is listed for the PGE in the April
1942.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

I won't begin to claim any deep knowledge of Fowler cars, but I noted the
list was missing Pacific Great Eastern. Their ORER listing in Jan. 1948
says:"freight cars owned are only used in switching service with direct
connections";
an earlier listing (Oct. 1937) states "cars are not employed in interstate
commerce".. I have four shots of PGE stock cars (555, 562, 575 & 588),
all of
which look like Fowler cars.
Rich Burg
**************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all
other
Holiday needs. Search Now.
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from
-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)





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Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC


Charlie Vlk
 

If I recall correctly, the Fowler Patent was based on a slotted hole in the structural members which allowed boards to be
moved to "tighten up" the sheathing. Many cars (most of those listed?) may not be true Fowler Patent Cars but simply
have the structural pattern ("sawtooth" pattern of framing/floor/sheathing) and other architecture of the Canadian Cars....
not to say that some US cars were not built under the patents.
For our purposes the elongated screw holes are probably not a major concern.... hidden behind the screw heads as they
are???
Charlie Vlk


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@...> wrote:

If I recall correctly, the Fowler Patent was based on a slotted hole
in the structural members which allowed boards to be
moved to "tighten up" the sheathing. Many cars (most of those
listed?) may not be true Fowler Patent Cars but simply
have the structural pattern ("sawtooth" pattern of
framing/floor/sheathing) and other architecture of the Canadian Cars....
not to say that some US cars were not built under the patents.
For our purposes the elongated screw holes are probably not a major
concern.... hidden behind the screw heads as they
are???
Charlie Vlk

I agree with Charlie on the name, which is why I like the "Dominion
car" coined by Stafford Swain and Paul Clegg, but I realize that a lot
of folks use the Dominion and Fowler names interchangeably. However,
the "sawtooth" post, crossbearer, and sidesill arrangement is totally
unrelated to the Dominion cars, and was possibly never built in
Canada. All the Canadian Dominion cars had conventional channel
section side sills, although early production did use a body bolster
that extended a couple inches below the bottom of the side sills. This
includes the 36' Dominion car copies built for the Soo line by AC&F in
1912.

The "sawtooth" design seems to have been originated by AC&F, first
used on an order of 40' cars built for the Frisco in 1913, and also an
order for the Soo Line that same year. AC&F went on to use the design
for several other roads, almost always on 40' cars.

The Soo Line liked the design enough that when they changed their car
buying allegiance to Haskell & Barker (later Pullman) they had B&B
copy the underframe design, with some changes. AC&F got another bite
at the apple in 1923, but those cars incorporated the same changes as
the H&B cars.

The CP eventually started converting some of their large fleet of 36"
Dominion cars to stockcars. When the Soo needed new stockcars, they
didn't have the large fleet of 36' steel frame boxcars to draw upon,
so they had H&B shrink the 40' boxcar framing down to 36', and these
cars bear a strong resemblance to the CP stockcars, except for the
"sawtooth" side sill. But they are really more like second cousins,
twice removed.

All of the above has been developed from roster information; I have
yet to find an article in the trade press of the day, or any company
correspondence that explains who was the proponent of this side sill
design, and what arguments they made in it's favor. If I could find
that, I'd finally be able to write an article on the cars.

Dennis


Benjamin Scanlon
 

We have had another outbreak of Fowlerishness, or a bird of a slightly different feather, in the dominion of TT scale.

I am wondering if anyone can say whether a CPR Dominion 36' boxcar would be near enough to any of the cars pinpointed as being 36' s/s cars below?

The Dominion casting has 12 crosswise roof ribs, the first and last ribs flush with each end, and what looks to be a 5-5-5 steel door (I assume replacing a wood original.)

Aside from the ITC cars, which I believe existed in interchange service as late as 1961, were there other US owners of 36' cars who had them in interchange service through to the late 50s?

From what I can work out, 36' cars in the US were one of those things that were very common in one decade, ie, 1942 but almost gone a decade later.

I am told the NYSW ones made it to 1951.

I am hoping someone might be able to offer some advice on the characteristics (door type, roof, if possible number of ribs) on some of these 36' s/s cars.


regards, Benjamin

Central Railroad Company of Pennsylvania 14000-14499 (Fowler-like,
NEB&W web site)
BAR 9000-9699*, 9800-10399
New York, Susquehanna & Western 1500-1563*
Piedmont & Northern 12000-12074*
BAR 8100-8599, 8700-8799
CNJ 14000-14499 (drawing seems to suggest it)
CV 70731-71730, 71800-72049
DSS&A 11067-11569
NC&StL 24500-24599
SOO 28312+28456, 106600-107908, 108056-109908
M&StL 26000-26400
WAB 78000-78199 (read about these, are they 36' or 40'?)
B&M 12138-12258, 12301-12392, 64682-68247, 68317, 68333-68390
C&EI 37002-37748, 635-699
GM&O 43000-43299 (or were these SU cars?)
NKP 97000-97999
CGW 27000-27998 (SS, AC&F photo of 27904, lot 7504)
Central Railroad Company of Pennsylvania 14000-14499 (Fowler-like,
NEB&W web site)>
ERIE 80995, 85000-85999 (SS or Fowler-like, MM, Apr. 1986)

IC 11000-11344 (SS, 1927 IC equipment list – personal communication
from Ray Breyer)
ITC 8000-8199 (Fowler or Fowler-like, NEB&W web site)
Chicago South Shore & South Bend R.R., 1501-1505 (Fowler or Fowler-
like, NEB&W web site)
NKP 97000-97999 (Former TStL&W 7000-7999, Fowler, MM, Apr. 1986)
Pittsburg, Shawmut and Northern 9900-9949 (SS, personal communication from Ray Breyer)
SB&M 1254-2050 (SS, NEB&W web site)
WABASH 75000-77199 (SS 36' 5", Jan. 1938 ORER, p. 444, AC&F photos of 75699 and 76200, lots 6615 and 8063)
WABASH 77200-78199 (SS 36' 5", Jan. 1938 ORER, p. 444)


Dennis Storzek
 

The Soo Line (found alphabetized in steam era equipment registers under M) had one group of cars nearly identical to the Canadian cars, built in 1912. This was 750 cars, numbered 12800 - 14298, even numbers only. They were built with outside metal roofs having some sort of round seam caps, but in later years had roofs with twelve flat rectangular seam caps, counting those at the ends of the roof. Original trucks had Bettendorf T section sideframes, later changed to Andrews. It sounds like the only real difference is the door, the Soo cars were built with top supported wood doors which they retained throughout their entire lives. The January 1958 ORER shows 19 cars remaining; all were retired by January 1961

 



---In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

We have had another outbreak of Fowlerishness, or a bird of a slightly different feather, in the dominion of TT scale.

I am wondering if anyone can say whether a CPR Dominion 36' boxcar would be near enough to any of the cars pinpointed as being 36' s/s cars below?

The Dominion casting has 12 crosswise roof ribs, the first and last ribs flush with each end, and what looks to be a 5-5-5 steel door (I assume replacing a wood original.)

Aside from the ITC cars, which I believe existed in interchange service as late as 1961, were there other US owners of 36' cars who had them in interchange service through to the late 50s?

From what I can work out, 36' cars in the US were one of those things that were very common in one decade, ie, 1942 but almost gone a decade later.

I am told the NYSW ones made it to 1951.

I am hoping someone might be able to offer some advice on the characteristics (door type, roof, if possible number of ribs) on some of these 36' s/s cars.


regards, Benjamin



> Central Railroad Company of Pennsylvania 14000-14499 (Fowler-like,
> NEB&W web site)

> > BAR 9000-9699*, 9800-10399

> > New York, Susquehanna & Western 1500-1563*
> > Piedmont & Northern 12000-12074*

> > BAR 8100-8599, 8700-8799
> > CNJ 14000-14499 (drawing seems to suggest it)

> > CV 70731-71730, 71800-72049
> > DSS&A 11067-11569
> > NC&StL 24500-24599
> > SOO 28312+28456, 106600-107908, 108056-109908
> > M&StL 26000-26400
> > WAB 78000-78199 (read about these, are they 36' or 40'?)

> > B&M 12138-12258, 12301-12392, 64682-68247, 68317, 68333-68390

> > C&EI 37002-37748, 635-699

> > GM&O 43000-43299 (or were these SU cars?)

> > NKP 97000-97999

> CGW 27000-27998 (SS, AC&F photo of 27904, lot 7504)
> Central Railroad Company of Pennsylvania 14000-14499 (Fowler-like,
> NEB&W web site)>
> ERIE 80995, 85000-85999 (SS or Fowler-like, MM, Apr. 1986)
>
> IC 11000-11344 (SS, 1927 IC equipment list – personal communication
> from Ray Breyer)
> ITC 8000-8199 (Fowler or Fowler-like, NEB&W web site)
> Chicago South Shore & South Bend R.R., 1501-1505 (Fowler or Fowler-
> like, NEB&W web site)

> NKP 97000-97999 (Former TStL&W 7000-7999, Fowler, MM, Apr. 1986)
> Pittsburg, Shawmut and Northern 9900-9949 (SS, personal communication from Ray Breyer)
> SB&M 1254-2050 (SS, NEB&W web site)
> WABASH 75000-77199 (SS 36' 5", Jan. 1938 ORER, p. 444, AC&F photos of 75699 and 76200, lots 6615 and 8063)
> WABASH 77200-78199 (SS 36' 5", Jan. 1938 ORER, p. 444)
>


Benjamin Scanlon
 

Hullo Dennis

Thank you for that ... a good excuse to have a SOO car, always a nice thing ... and a composite sided granger car wouldn't look out of place.

The only Eastern s/s cars I could dig up (I found the xls of short boxcars in the files) were 14 NYS&W ones, which according to the spreadsheet were still around in 1959. This puzzles me as I thought theirs had been written off in 1951.

There were other Eastern 'short' boxcars (not necessarily 36') of the DL&W, D&H and RDG, but all were all double sheathed.

Cheers

Ben


Tim O'Connor
 


New Haven had at least a couple in the late 50's early 60's but
they were in company service -- NH W1405, NH T80.

Tim O'




The Soo Line (found alphabetized in steam era equipment registers under M) had one group of cars nearly identical to the Canadian cars, built in 1912. This was 750 cars, numbered 12800 - 14298, even numbers only. They were built with outside metal roofs having some sort of round seam caps, but in later years had roofs with twelve flat rectangular seam caps, counting those at the ends of the roof. Original trucks had Bettendorf T section sideframes, later changed to Andrews. It sounds like the only real difference is the door, the Soo cars were built with top supported wood doors which they retained throughout their entire lives. The January 1958 ORER shows 19 cars remaining; all were retired by January 1961

 


---In STMFC@..., wrote:

We have had another outbreak of Fowlerishness, or a bird of a slightly different feather, in the dominion of TT scale.

I am wondering if anyone can say whether a CPR Dominion 36' boxcar would be near enough to any of the cars pinpointed as being 36' s/s cars below?

The Dominion casting has 12 crosswise roof ribs, the first and last ribs flush with each end, and what looks to be a 5-5-5 steel door (I assume replacing a wood original.)

Aside from the ITC cars, which I believe existed in interchange service as late as 1961, were there other US owners of 36' cars who had them in interchange service through to the late 50s?

From what I can work out, 36' cars in the US were one of those things that were very common in one decade, ie, 1942 but almost gone a decade later.

I am told the NYSW ones made it to 1951.

I am hoping someone might be able to offer some advice on the characteristics (door type, roof, if possible number of ribs) on some of these 36' s/s cars.


regards, Benjamin



> Central Railroad Company of Pennsylvania 14000-14499 (Fowler-like,
> NEB&W web site)

> > BAR 9000-9699*, 9800-10399

> > New York, Susquehanna & Western 1500-1563*
> > Piedmont & Northern 12000-12074*

> > BAR 8100-8599, 8700-8799
> > CNJ 14000-14499 (drawing seems to suggest it)

> > CV 70731-71730, 71800-72049
> > DSS&A 11067-11569
> > NC&StL 24500-24599
> > SOO 28312+28456, 106600-107908, 108056-109908
> > M&StL 26000-26400
> > WAB 78000-78199 (read about these, are they 36' or 40'?)

> > B&M 12138-12258, 12301-12392, 64682-68247, 68317, 68333-68390

> > C&EI 37002-37748, 635-699

> > GM&O 43000-43299 (or were these SU cars?)

> > NKP 97000-97999

> CGW 27000-27998 (SS, AC&F photo of 27904, lot 7504)
> Central Railroad Company of Pennsylvania 14000-14499 (Fowler-like,
> NEB&W web site)>
> ERIE 80995, 85000-85999 (SS or Fowler-like, MM, Apr. 1986)
>
> IC 11000-11344 (SS, 1927 IC equipment list – personal communication
> from Ray Breyer)
> ITC 8000-8199 (Fowler or Fowler-like, NEB&W web site)
> Chicago South Shore & South Bend R.R., 1501-1505 (Fowler or Fowler-
> like, NEB&W web site)

> NKP 97000-97999 (Former TStL&W 7000-7999, Fowler, MM, Apr. 1986)
> Pittsburg, Shawmut and Northern 9900-9949 (SS, personal communication from Ray Breyer)
> SB&M 1254-2050 (SS, NEB&W web site)
> WABASH 75000-77199 (SS 36' 5", Jan. 1938 ORER, p. 444, AC&F photos of 75699 and 76200, lots 6615 and 8063)
> WABASH 77200-78199 (SS 36' 5", Jan. 1938 ORER, p. 444)


Bill Welch
 

The L&N cars on your list are double-sheathed. 


Bill Welch



---In stmfc@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote:


New Haven had at least a couple in the late 50's early 60's but
they were in company service -- NH W1405, NH T80.

Tim O'




The Soo Line (found alphabetized in steam era equipment registers under M) had one group of cars nearly identical to the Canadian cars, built in 1912. This was 750 cars, numbered 12800 - 14298, even numbers only. They were built with outside metal roofs having some sort of round seam caps, but in later years had roofs with twelve flat rectangular seam caps, counting those at the ends of the roof. Original trucks had Bettendorf T section sideframes, later changed to Andrews. It sounds like the only real difference is the door, the Soo cars were built with top supported wood doors which they retained throughout their entire lives. The January 1958 ORER shows 19 cars remaining; all were retired by January 1961

 


---In STMFC@..., <stmfc@...> wrote:

We have had another outbreak of Fowlerishness, or a bird of a slightly different feather, in the dominion of TT scale.

I am wondering if anyone can say whether a CPR Dominion 36' boxcar would be near enough to any of the cars pinpointed as being 36' s/s cars below?

The Dominion casting has 12 crosswise roof ribs, the first and last ribs flush with each end, and what looks to be a 5-5-5 steel door (I assume replacing a wood original.)

Aside from the ITC cars, which I believe existed in interchange service as late as 1961, were there other US owners of 36' cars who had them in interchange service through to the late 50s?

From what I can work out, 36' cars in the US were one of those things that were very common in one decade, ie, 1942 but almost gone a decade later.

I am told the NYSW ones made it to 1951.

I am hoping someone might be able to offer some advice on the characteristics (door type, roof, if possible number of ribs) on some of these 36' s/s cars.


regards, Benjamin



> Central Railroad Company of Pennsylvania 14000-14499 (Fowler-like,
> NEB&W web site)

> > BAR 9000-9699*, 9800-10399

> > New York, Susquehanna & Western 1500-1563*
> > Piedmont & Northern 12000-12074*

> > BAR 8100-8599, 8700-8799
> > CNJ 14000-14499 (drawing seems to suggest it)

> > CV 70731-71730, 71800-72049
> > DSS&A 11067-11569
> > NC&StL 24500-24599
> > SOO 28312+28456, 106600-107908, 108056-109908
> > M&StL 26000-26400
> > WAB 78000-78199 (read about these, are they 36' or 40'?)

> > B&M 12138-12258, 12301-12392, 64682-68247, 68317, 68333-68390

> > C&EI 37002-37748, 635-699

> > GM&O 43000-43299 (or were these SU cars?)

> > NKP 97000-97999

> CGW 27000-27998 (SS, AC&F photo of 27904, lot 7504)
> Central Railroad Company of Pennsylvania 14000-14499 (Fowler-like,
> NEB&W web site)>
> ERIE 80995, 85000-85999 (SS or Fowler-like, MM, Apr. 1986)
>
> IC 11000-11344 (SS, 1927 IC equipment list – personal communication
> from Ray Breyer)
> ITC 8000-8199 (Fowler or Fowler-like, NEB&W web site)
> Chicago South Shore & South Bend R.R., 1501-1505 (Fowler or Fowler-
> like, NEB&W web site)

> NKP 97000-97999 (Former TStL&W 7000-7999, Fowler, MM, Apr. 1986)
> Pittsburg, Shawmut and Northern 9900-9949 (SS, personal communication from Ray Breyer)
> SB&M 1254-2050 (SS, NEB&W web site)
> WABASH 75000-77199 (SS 36' 5", Jan. 1938 ORER, p. 444, AC&F photos of 75699 and 76200, lots 6615 and 8063)
> WABASH 77200-78199 (SS 36' 5", Jan. 1938 ORER, p. 444)


Michael Aufderheide
 

The CIL 2000-3600 cars were 36' howe truss cars built in 1912, some were rebuilt with new center sills and ends in the twenties.