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Need Help with Photo Location
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Jim Lancaster
I have obtained a photo of a Chateau Martin wine car in a train of reefers. The photo is at
http://www.geocities.com/jim_lancaster.geo/chatmart/cm_in_train_001.jpg Does anyone recognize the location? The tracks in the foreground with the third rail probably indicate someplace in or near New York City. Jim Lancaster |
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robertb@smartchat.net.au
Jim,
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The photo was taken on the NYC Electric Division. The exact location is at the south end of the Mott Haven coach yard. The large building behind the reefers is a US Post Office building and the interlocking tower to the right is MO Tower. The cars are sitting on the mainline from Grand Central Terminal and at that point they are curving to the west to head towards Spuyten Duyvil, before turning to the north to Harmon and then points west. The tracks that can be seen in the foreground are the approach leads to Mott Haven yard and part of yard A. Out of view in the foreground are the mainline tracks for the Harlem Division. To the left out of view is the road overbridge for E 149th Street. Also out of view to the right of the photo and behind MO tower are the two tracks that connect the mainline to the Harlem Division and the Port Morris branch, which is where you would normally expect to see freight cars. So the photo raises the question of why these freight reefers are sitting on this busy passenger mainline. The date would be prior to mid sixties, judging by the manicured garden in the middle of the photo. A similar view of this location can be seen on page 15 in the book by HF Cavanaugh titled "New York Central System Gone But Not Forgotten". Regards, Robert Bogie Melbourne, Australia --- Original Message -----
From: Lancaster James To: STMFC@... ; milktrains@... Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:48 PM Subject: [STMFC] Need Help with Photo Location I have obtained a photo of a Chateau Martin wine car in a train of reefers. The photo is at http://www.geocities.com/jim_lancaster.geo/chatmart/cm_in_train_001.jpg Does anyone recognize the location? The tracks in the foreground with the third rail probably indicate someplace in or near New York City. Jim Lancaster |
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Thtat's a great old photo. Where did you find it?
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Sincerely, Rich Yoder 7 Edgedale Court Wyomissing PA 19610-1913 610-678-2834 after 6:00PM est until 10:00PM www.richyodermodels.com -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Robert Bogie Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 2:35 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Need Help with Photo Location Jim, The photo was taken on the NYC Electric Division. The exact location is at the south end of the Mott Haven coach yard. The large building behind the reefers is a US Post Office building and the interlocking tower to the right is MO Tower. The cars are sitting on the mainline from Grand Central Terminal and at that point they are curving to the west to head towards Spuyten Duyvil, before turning to the north to Harmon and then points west. The tracks that can be seen in the foreground are the approach leads to Mott Haven yard and part of yard A. Out of view in the foreground are the mainline tracks for the Harlem Division. To the left out of view is the road overbridge for E 149th Street. Also out of view to the right of the photo and behind MO tower are the two tracks that connect the mainline to the Harlem Division and the Port Morris branch, which is where you would normally expect to see freight cars. So the photo raises the question of why these freight reefers are sitting on this busy passenger mainline. The date would be prior to mid sixties, judging by the manicured garden in the middle of the photo. A similar view of this location can be seen on page 15 in the book by HF Cavanaugh titled "New York Central System Gone But Not Forgotten". Regards, Robert Bogie Melbourne, Australia --- Original Message ----- From: Lancaster James To: STMFC@... ; milktrains@... Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:48 PM Subject: [STMFC] Need Help with Photo Location I have obtained a photo of a Chateau Martin wine car in a train of reefers. The photo is at http://www.geocities.com/jim_lancaster.geo/chatmart/cm_in_train_001.jpg Does anyone recognize the location? The tracks in the foreground with the third rail probably indicate someplace in or near New York City. Jim Lancaster ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Schuyler Larrabee
Is it reasonable to infer from this photo that Chateau Martin cars were more likely to arrive in NYC
by NYC than by other roads? SGL Jim,Mott Haven coach yard. The large building behind the reefers is a US Post Office building and the interlocking tower tothe right is MO Tower. The cars are sitting on the mainline from Grand Central Terminal and at that point they arecurving to the west to head towards Spuyten Duyvil, before turning to the north to Harmon and then points west. The tracksthat can be seen in the foreground are the approach leads to Mott Haven yard and part of yard A. Out of view in theforeground are the mainline tracks for the Harlem Division. To the left out of view is the road overbridge for E149th Street. Also out of view to the right of the photo and behind MO tower are the two tracks that connect the mainline tothe Harlem Division and the Port Morris branch, which is where you would normally expect to see freight cars. So thephoto raises the question of why these freight reefers are sitting on this busy passenger mainline. The date wouldbe prior to mid sixties, judging by the manicured garden in the middle of the photo. A similar view of this location can beseen on page 15 in the book by HF Cavanaugh titled "New York Central System Gone But Not Forgotten". |
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It is not reasonable to infer that from a single photo.
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It wouldn't even be reasonable if you had 6 such photos. Perhaps the photographer was obsessed with wine cars. Or maybe there was a wholesaler near Mott Haven who bought wine. Or... any number of other circumstances. Tim O'Connor Is it reasonable to infer from this photo that Chateau Martin |
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Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
A few thoughts here. Would the cars have been destined to, or be
from, the West Side Freight Line? And how did the cars get to New York City in the first place? Likely on NYC NY-4, routed through Elkhart, Detroit, St. Thomas, Niagara Falls, and the Falls Road Line to Rochester. It carried Santa Fe reefers on the head end, and was probably THE hottest freight train on the Caso. And those Santa Fe reefers are quite filthy on the outside. Much dirtier than most modellers dare to weather cars. Contrasting the cars' dirtiness is the almost manicured lawn and shrubberies around the interlocking tower. Steve Lucas. -- In STMFC@..., "Robert Bogie" <robertb@...> wrote: location is at the south end of the Mott Haven coach yard. The large building behind the reefers is a US Post Office building and the interlocking tower to the right is MO Tower. The cars are sitting on the mainline from Grand Central Terminal and at that point they are curving to the west to head towards Spuyten Duyvil, before turning to the north to Harmon and then points west. The tracks that can be seen in the foreground are the approach leads to Mott Haven yard and part of yard A. Out of view in the foreground are the mainline tracks for the Harlem Division. To the left out of view is the road overbridge for E 149th Street. Also out of view to the right of the photo and behind MO tower are the two tracks that connect the mainline to the Harlem Division and the Port Morris branch, which is where you would normally expect to see freight cars. So the photo raises the question of why these freight reefers are sitting on this busy passenger mainline. The date would be prior to mid sixties, judging by the manicured garden in the middle of the photo. A similar view of this location can be seen on page 15 in the book by HF Cavanaugh titled "New York Central System Gone But Not Forgotten". of reefers. The photo is athttp://www.geocities.com/jim_lancaster.geo/chatmart/cm_in_train_001.jp g Does anyone recognize the location? The tracks in the foregroundYork City. |
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Jim Lancaster
I bought the slide on Ebay for $1.99. The slide is Anscochrome and was processed by Pavelle Color (which was in New York City). The slide is undated but a NY Times Business and Finance section article from August 10, 1956 had the headline "PAVELLE COLOR IS SOLD; Technicolor Corp. Purchases New York Film Processor."
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Jim Lancaster On Nov 22, 2008, at 5:39 AM, Richard Yoder wrote:
Thtat's a great old photo. Where did you find it? |
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Jim Lancaster
Thanks Robert (and others) for your help. With your description I was able to get a similar view from the Street View option on Google Maps. See
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http://www.geocities.com/jim_lancaster.geo/chatmart/google_st_view_1.jpg Regarding the question of why the freight cars would be on the passenger mainline, I've had a couple of responses pointing out that this location is close to the Bronx Terminal Market where the Eastern Wine Company (who owned the Chateau Martin brand) was located. John Horvath offered this explanation on the Yahoo milk trains list: "My initial reaction at seeing a train of reefers at this location is one of surprise. The only thing I can think of is that it's a local freight working cars to the Bronx Terminal Market (where Chateau Martin was located) which would be a mile or two to the west of this location up the Hudson line. The shadows suggest midday or early afternoon when passenger traffic through that busy junction would be minimal so perhaps the main is being used to drill cars going to the Market." Jim Lancaster On Nov 21, 2008, at 11:35 PM, Robert Bogie wrote:
Jim, |
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