PRR Gon info request


bongiovanni12001
 

Haven't found this in the archives, and my black letter on white paper
sources are unclear. I'm doing some research on high capacity gondolas
(Gene Huddleston has convinced me not to call them "battleship" gons).
PRR had a 110 ton gon, #306001, class G23.

Was this a one-of-a-kind? Any idea what years?
Pointing me to an appropriate available reference would also be
appreciated. Thank you.

Frank Bongiovanni


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Frank Bongiovanni wrote:
"Haven't found this in the archives, and my black letter on white paper
sources are unclear. I'm doing some research on high capacity gondolas
(Gene Huddleston has convinced me not to call them "battleship" gons).
PRR had a 110 ton gon, #306001, class G23.
Was this a one-of-a-kind? Any idea what years?
Pointing me to an appropriate available reference would also be
appreciated."

This was a single car built in 1919 and retired in 1952:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G23

I've already sent Al Kresse what I know about this car several months
ago.


Ben Hom


Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Frank,
 
          This was a one-of-a-kind PRR gon. It was used in captive service between Derry, PA  and Baltimore's Canton coal piers. It rode on six wheel trucks that remind me of the heavy duty type used on the B&LE cars. It had two hopper outlets in the bottom of the clam shell variety.
 
          Dimenions can be found at Rob Schoenberg's site in the links section of the PRRT&HS website. To build one, I would start with 2 pair of ends from a GSh kit, placing on atop the other to fit the diagrams. The rest of the body would need to be fabricated from styrene side, and made to order ribs. I Won't be trying this any time soon.
 
          The photo I'm reading from is in the Wayner photo book of PRR cars as the placard is readable above the spelled out roadname. Hope you find what you need and actually give building it a try.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Sun, 11/23/08, bongiovanni12001 <bongiovanni1@...> wrote:

From: bongiovanni12001 <bongiovanni1@...>
Subject: [STMFC] PRR Gon info request
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 8:10 PM






Haven't found this in the archives, and my black letter on white paper
sources are unclear. I'm doing some research on high capacity gondolas
(Gene Huddleston has convinced me not to call them "battleship" gons).
PRR had a 110 ton gon, #306001, class G23.

Was this a one-of-a-kind? Any idea what years?
Pointing me to an appropriate available reference would also be
appreciated. Thank you.

Frank Bongiovanni


Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Fred Freitas wrote:
"To build [an HO scale Class G23 gon], I would start with 2 pair of ends
from a GSh kit, placing on atop the other to fit the diagrams. The rest of
the body would need to be fabricated from styrene side, and made to order
ribs. I Won't be trying this any time soon."

Craig Bossler scratchbuilt a model which won first place in HO scale freight
cars at the 2004 PRRT&HS Annual Meeting. A photo appeared in the June 2004
issue of TKM.


Ben Hom


water.kresse@...
 

Frank,

Rich Burg and Ben Homm sent me something a while back. Yes, it was a one-off, dedicated service test car built in their own shops with what looked like tender trucks under it.

Al

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "bongiovanni12001" <bongiovanni1@...>
Haven't found this in the archives, and my black letter on white paper
sources are unclear. I'm doing some research on high capacity gondolas
(Gene Huddleston has convinced me not to call them "battleship" gons).
PRR had a 110 ton gon, #306001, class G23.

Was this a one-of-a-kind? Any idea what years?
Pointing me to an appropriate available reference would also be
appreciated. Thank you.

Frank Bongiovanni


water.kresse@...
 

Ben,

How close was it to the March 1918 USRA 100-ton gon proposal? Was it ribbed-sided? I ask that because I believe Pennsy's Kiesel was on their Mech Committee.

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
Frank Bongiovanni wrote:
"Haven't found this in the archives, and my black letter on white paper
sources are unclear. I'm doing some research on high capacity gondolas
(Gene Huddleston has convinced me not to call them "battleship" gons).
PRR had a 110 ton gon, #306001, class G23.
Was this a one-of-a-kind? Any idea what years?
Pointing me to an appropriate available reference would also be
appreciated."

This was a single car built in 1919 and retired in 1952:
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G23

I've already sent Al Kresse what I know about this car several months
ago.

Ben Hom


cinderandeight@...
 

Guys,
Railway Age ran an article on the G23, and H26 (quintuple hopper) in the
June 18, 1919 issue on pages 1461-1466 (RA was paged in six month block back
then). The article has full drawings and many photos of the cars and their
trucks. If you'd like I could send you a scan of the article directly.
Rich Burg
**************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks,
and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com
today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp
%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)


water.kresse@...
 

Rich,

If it is NOT too much of a task. Yes we would like to have a sentence of two associated with that early hi capy gon with twin claimshell hoppers. It would be a lot of hand-shoveling if you had to use the "emergency doors".

Do you know a B&LE FC person. They apparently had some 6-wheel 120-ton gons in coke service in the 50s and 60s from Clairian to US Steel Gary. Were they the used Virginian cars? We have no idea.

Anyway, thanks and happy Thanksgiving,

Al

Going to Grandma's for Turkey tomorrow and be back this weekend. We will hopefully drive right past Burton on I-69 around 10 AM . . . snow permitting.

-------------- Original message --------------
From: cinderandeight@...
Guys,
Railway Age ran an article on the G23, and H26 (quintuple hopper) in the
June 18, 1919 issue on pages 1461-1466 (RA was paged in six month block back
then). The article has full drawings and many photos of the cars and their
trucks. If you'd like I could send you a scan of the article directly.
Rich Burg
**************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks,
and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com
today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp
%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)


water.kresse@...
 

Rich,

What do you know about Penny's Kiesel and his involvement in PRR and USRA/ARA/AAR FC design? WE have his patent for an offset-side end side-panel trasition design and he is mention as being part of at least one of the USRA committees.

Al

-------------- Original message --------------
From: cinderandeight@...
Guys,
Railway Age ran an article on the G23, and H26 (quintuple hopper) in the
June 18, 1919 issue on pages 1461-1466 (RA was paged in six month block back
then). The article has full drawings and many photos of the cars and their
trucks. If you'd like I could send you a scan of the article directly.
Rich Burg
**************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks,
and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com
today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp
%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rich Burg wrote:
Railway Age ran an article on the G23, and H26 (quintuple hopper) in the June 18, 1919 issue on pages 1461-1466 (RA was paged in six month block back then).
Railway Age had two volumes per year for decades, Rich. They were just that, volumes, not six-month blocks.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Al Kresse wrote:
What do you know about Penny's Kiesel and his involvement in PRR and USRA/ARA/AAR FC design? WE have his patent for an offset-side end side-panel trasition design and he is mention as being part of at least one of the USRA committees.
He was chair of the ARA Car Committee for awhile in the middle 1920s. You only have to read the otherwise-spare minutes of the ARA Transactions to recognize the arrogance of the man. He surely can't have helped PRR's reputation.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Tony Thompson wrote:
"[Walter Kiesel] was chair of the ARA Car Committee for awhile in the
middle 1920s. You only have to read the otherwise-spare minutes of the
ARA Transactions to recognize the arrogance of the man. He surely can't
have helped PRR's reputation."

I haven't been able to confirm this myself, but Jack Amerine pointed
out in his landmark X29 article in Prototype Modeler that Kiesel became
a non-person to the PRR after his passing in spite of his many
engineering contributions to the railroad.


Ben Hom


cinderandeight@...
 

Tony,
Yes, perhaps "volumes" would be the term, the point being that until
around 1950 Railway Age paged all the issues from January to June as a unit, and
then started a new numbering for July through December issues. Each individual
issue had two paging systems. There were the normal pages 1-50 or perhaps
60, and those pages were reserved for the advertisement section of the magazine
and table of contents, etc., while the cumulative paging continued from where
it left off in the previous issue with the articles. By June the page number
usually was up around 14 or 15 hundred pages. When libraries received their
bound copies of Railway Age all the advertisement pages (which were split
between the front and back of each magazine) were removed. This allowed the
whole six months of issues to fit in one book, albeit a book bigger than the size
of a Car Builder's Cyc.. The loss of these ads also from a historical
standpoint was unfortunate since often the ads told you more than the articles.
Bound volumes of Railway Age also contained (usually, I've seen bound volumes
without it) a master index for the whole year, with listings that indicated the
"volume" and page, such as JJ 1242, or JD 802 for example. I pointed this out
for the benefit of people who don't regularly use the magazine, because
otherwise it might be a bit confusing.
Oh, and just to keep the name straight, it's William Kiesel, not Walter.
His home still stands along PA route 36 about six blocks North of the former
Sam Rea car shops in Holidaysburg, PA..

Rich Burg
**************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks,
and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com
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Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rich Burg wrote:
When libraries received their bound copies of Railway Age all the advertisement pages (which were split between the front and back of each magazine) were removed. This allowed the whole six months of issues to fit in one book, albeit a book bigger than the size of a Car Builder's Cyc. The loss of these ads also from a historical standpoint was unfortunate since often the ads told you more than the articles. Bound volumes of Railway Age also contained (usually, I've seen bound volumes without it) a master index for the whole year, with listings that indicated the "volume" and page, such as JJ 1242, or JD 802 for example.
It was up to the individual library whether or not to remove those ad pages. I have seen some volumes of RA which DID have the ads. Happily, I've never encountered one without an index--an extremely helpful feature in a journal like this one--but I have seen one instance of a bound volume in which the copies were all front to back, in other words the newest magazine was in the front, and the oldest at the back. Makes page-finding a little challenging.
The pages with the letters, as in your examples, are from the annual convention issues.

Oh, and just to keep the name straight, it's William Kiesel, not Walter.
True. I'd missed the wrong name inserted by Ben Hom in an earlier post.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

And there are examples of libraries that separated the two and had
them bound independently. I've had a couple of instances where I've
request a certain year's volume and all I got was six months
of bound advertisements. (and most months were identical)

Roger Hinman

On Nov 25, 2008, at 8:29 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Rich Burg wrote:
When libraries received their bound copies of Railway Age all the
advertisement pages (which were split between the front and back of
each magazine) were removed. This allowed the whole six months of
issues to fit in one book, albeit a book bigger than the size of a
Car
Builder's Cyc. The loss of these ads also from a historical
standpoint
was unfortunate since often the ads told you more than the articles.
Bound volumes of Railway Age also contained (usually, I've seen
bound
volumes without it) a master index for the whole year, with listings
that indicated the "volume" and page, such as JJ 1242, or JD 802 for
example.
It was up to the individual library whether or not to remove those
ad pages. I have seen some volumes of RA which DID have the ads.
Happily, I've never encountered one without an index--an extremely
helpful feature in a journal like this one--but I have seen one
instance of a bound volume in which the copies were all front to back,
in other words the newest magazine was in the front, and the oldest at
the back. Makes page-finding a little challenging.
The pages with the letters, as in your examples, are from the
annual convention issues.

Oh, and just to keep the name straight, it's William Kiesel, not
Walter.
True. I'd missed the wrong name inserted by Ben Hom in an earlier
post.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history



water.kresse@...
 

Richard,

If you find time i would appreciate a copy of that article on PRR Quad-hop 100-ton gon.

Al

-------------- Original message --------------
From: cinderandeight@...
Guys,
Railway Age ran an article on the G23, and H26 (quintuple hopper) in the
June 18, 1919 issue on pages 1461-1466 (RA was paged in six month block back
then). The article has full drawings and many photos of the cars and their
trucks. If you'd like I could send you a scan of the article directly.
Rich Burg
**************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks,
and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com
today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp
%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)