I have Sunshine's kit #24.17 for a Cudahy 36' meat reefer. The
Prototype Data Sheet states "Cudahy Packing was a packer oriented to
the West Coast market", but I don't recall any published photos to
prove this. Does anyone know if these cars showed up in northern
California on the Southern Pacific or in Washington State on the
Northern Pacific, especially in the late 1940s?

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

On Dec 5, 2008, at 9:05 AM, Brian Leppert wrote:

I have Sunshine's kit #24.17 for a Cudahy 36' meat reefer. The
Prototype Data Sheet states "Cudahy Packing was a packer oriented to
the West Coast market", but I don't recall any published photos to
prove this. Does anyone know if these cars showed up in northern
California on the Southern Pacific or in Washington State on the
Northern Pacific, especially in the late 1940s?

Brian, I have a photo of a Cudahy car westbound in a UP train in
western Nebraska (and therefore en route to somewhere west of the
Rockies), a photo of a Cudahy car in San Francisco in 1952, and
distant photographic evidence of Cudahy meat reefers at the Cudahy
packing plant in San Diego in the '40s. So I think you're safe in
assuming that their meat reefers frequently came west.

Richard Hendrickson

--- In STMFC@..., "Brian Leppert" <b.leppert@...> wrote:

Does anyone know if these cars showed up in northern
California on the Southern Pacific or in Washington State on the
Northern Pacific, especially in the late 1940s?

Brian,

I have been slowly gathering info on the West Coast for modeling my
freight car fleet. Here's what I can add regarding Cudahy...

In the late 20's Cudahy is listed as having packing facilities in:
Fresno, Los Angeles, Oakland, San Bernardino, and San Francisco per an
ATSF Shipper's guide of the era.

Also, if you Google "chown pella cudahy portland" you will get to some
pics of a building that (according to the web sites) was used by
Cudahy in that city. When...I'm not sure.


John Hile
Blacksburg, VA

John Hile wrote:

In the late 20's Cudahy is listed as having packing facilities in:
Fresno, Los Angeles, Oakland, San Bernardino, and San Francisco per
an ATSF Shipper's guide of the era.

In the steam era Cudahy's main slaughterhouse was in Salt Lake City and they
shipped beef and lamb sides to the west coast where the packing facilities
cut them up for deliveries to the local retail market. IIRC they also had
something in Denver but at this moment I do not recall if it was just
another packing house or a full slaughterhouse operation.

The Oakland packing house, and I think the one in San Francisco too, had
rail service provided by the WP.

Dave Nelson

Brian,
Cudahy Packing Co home offices were in South Omaha, NE. Had a plant in
Phoenix, AZ in the time frame you are refering too. Plant was served by
SP trains. I believe Cudahy took over the old Tovrea meat packing co.

George A Walls

George Walls wrote:

Cudahy Packing Co home offices were in South Omaha, NE.

But remember there was also a Patrick Cudahy, Inc. (successor to the Cudahy Brothers company) located in Wisconsin, also in the meat business. Nearby today is the town of Cudahy, Wisconsin (those other Cudahy people gave rise to the town of Cudahy, California).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

But remember there was also a Patrick Cudahy, Inc. (successor to
the Cudahy Brothers company) located in Wisconsin, also in the meat
business. Nearby today is the town of Cudahy, Wisconsin (those other
Cudahy people gave rise to the town of Cudahy, California).



Now I am confused: I can recall seeing Cudahy meat cars on Chicago Great Western freight trains coming through Marshalltown, Iowa, and headed toward Oelwein, Iowa, the great CGW hub. I have no idea where those cars were headed, and I never suspected they were would be headed west to Utah and California, but I suppose it's a possiblity. Did the Patrick Cudahy outfit lease meat cars, too? If so how were its cars different in appearance from those of the California outfit?

Tom

OK now I am confused. I thought the Sunshine meat reefer for Cudahy was for
the Wisconsin meat packers. The CRLX cars were Cudahy Car Lines and were
owned by the Cudahy packing Company in Wisconsin. These cars often came east
on the NKP.
Are there two separate Cudahy meat packing companies? The emails make is
sound like there were different corporations.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

Brian Carlson wrote:

OK now I am confused. I thought the Sunshine meat reefer for Cudahy was for the Wisconsin meat packers. The CRLX cars were Cudahy Car Lines and were owned by the Cudahy packing Company in Wisconsin. These cars often came east
on the NKP. Are there two separate Cudahy meat packing companies? The emails make is sound like there were different corporations.

Brian, I'm no expert on the meat industry, but I believe there WERE two separate Cudahy companies, one called Cudahy Brothers and later Patrick Cudahy Inc., based in Wisconsin, the other called Cudahy Packing, based in Omaha. Someone more knowledgeable than me about details should chime in here and give us the whole story.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Brian J Carlson <brian@...> wrote:

>>OK now I am confused. I thought the Sunshine meat reefer for Cudahy
>>was for the Wisconsin meat packers. The CRLX cars were Cudahy Car
>>Lines and were owned by the Cudahy packing Company in Wisconsin.
>>These cars often came east on the NKP. Are there two separate Cudahy
>>meat packing companies? The emails make is sound like there were
>>different corporations.


Hi Brian,

Remember, just because a company is "based in" a certain state doesn't mean that it's restricted to ONLY that state. Cudahy had processing plants of various sizes all over the country. On the NKP's Peoria Division there's a Cudahy plant in Bloomington, IL. It received dressed hog sides (in CRLX reefers) and shipped bacon and margarine (in CRLX reefers). My meat reefer fleet has a disproportionate number of Cudahy reefers in it because of that one plant, although I believe Cudahy also had a sausage processing plant in Peoria (next to the stockyards on the Rock Island)

Regards,

Ray Breyer

I found the following:
http://www.patrickcudahy.com/company-founder.html
Also look at:
http://www.patrickcudahy.com/company-history.html
These help to sort things out.

Later,
Bill Kelly


Tony wrote

WERE two separate Cudahy companies, one called Cudahy Brothers and
later Patrick Cudahy Inc., based in Wisconsin, the other called
Cudahy
Packing, based in Omaha. Someone more knowledgeable than me about
details should chime in here and give us the whole story.

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Sorry, I get the digest version, so am always 24 hours behind ... but I will see what I can add to the discussion about the Cudahy
meat company. Most of what I have is for the Cudahy Packing Co, based in Omaha/Chicago. However there were two different
companies, one based in Wisconsin (Cudahy Brothers later renamed Patrick Cudahy) and the Cudahy Co. (started in Omaha, later HQ
moved to Chicago). A history of Patrick Cudahy can be found at www.patrickcudahy.com

From Cudahy Packing Co. "yearbooks"
Started in 1890 by Michael & Edward Cudahy, first packing plant in South Omaha, Neb.
1892 added packing plants in Los Angeles & Sioux City
1900 Kansas City
1906 Wichita, Kansas
1916 Salt Lake City
1919 purchased Nagle Packing Co of Detroit MI and Jersey City NJ
1925 purchased former Farmer's Terminal Packing Co at Newport MN (near St. Paul)
1930 Charles S. Hardy plant at San Diego acquired (one of the oldest on the west coast)
1947 Purchased Tovrea Packing in Phoenix, AZ

Branch houses, different from produce stations, were warehouses where carcasses where shipped, then stored and processed into
chops, steaks, roasts, etc.
in 1926 Open branch houses in: St. Petersburg & Orlando Fla,; Washington DC, Norfolk VA; Atlanta GA; Georgia and Havana, Cuba;
In 1928 100 new reefers built in Cudahy's Calumet Ind shops
Branch Houses added in 1930: Passaic NJ (rebuilt), Sioux City Ia, Portland Me

Produce (eggs & diary) Stations at:
Washington Court House, Ohio
Sioux City, Ia
Evansville, Wis
Alma, Neb
Davenport, Ia
Fairmount, ND
Memphis, Tenn
Neosho, MO
New Ulm, Minn
Superior, Wis
Winfield, Ia
Granite Falls, Minn added in 1930

Cudahy was also famous for Old Dutch Cleanser: made from volcanic deposits. Most meat packers were involved with cleaners and soap
products, they were part of the by-products industry for meat packers and provided additional revenue.

Here is information from a Spreadsheet I keep, sorry about the spacing, it has five columns, but I think you will be able to
figure it out.

Cudahy Packing Co., Chicago ILL 1931
Packing Plants (10) Branch Houses (78) Produce Plants Old Dutch Cleanser Plants
State City City City City
AL Birmingham
AL Mobile
AL Montgomery
AR Little Rock
CA Los Angeles
CA Los Angeles
CA San Diego
CA Fresno
CA San Francisco
CT Bridgeport
CT New Haven
CT Waterbury
FL Jacksonville
FL Miami
FL Orlando
FL Pensacola
FL Tampa
GA Atlanta
GA Macon
GA Savannah
IA Sioux City
IA Clinton
IA Davenport
IA Sioux City
IA Winfield
IL Aurora
IL Bloomington
IL Elgin
IL Joliet
IL Peoria
IL Quincy
IL Rockford
IL So. Chicago
IL Springfield
IN Calumet (East Chicago)
KS Wichita
KS Topeka
KS Fredonia
KS Wichita
LA Alexandria
LA Monroe
LA New Orleans
LA Shreveport
MA Boston
MA Fall River
MA Holyoke
MA Lawrence
MA Lowell
MA Worcester
ME Portland
MI Detroit
MN St. Paul
MN Duluth
MN Minneapolis
MN Granite Falls
MN Wadena
MN New Ulm
MO Kansas City
MO Neosho
MS Vicksburg
ND Fairmont
NE Omaha
NE Alma
NE Omaha
NH Nashua
NJ Atlantic City
NJ Jersey City
NJ Passaic
NJ Newark
NY Brooklyn
NY NYC
OH Washington C.H.
OH Youngstown
PA Braddock
PA Charleroi
PA McKeesport
PA New Castle
PA Beaver Falls
PA Pittston
PA Scranton
PA Philadelphia
RI Providence
TN Memphis
TN Chattanooga
UT North Salt Lake
VA Norfolk
WI Fond Du Lac
Washington D.C.
Sydney, Australia
Toronto, Canada
Auckland, New Zealand
Havana, Cuba

Hope this answers a few of the questions about the Cudahy meat packing companies.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

My understanding of the meat business is that there
were large slaughterhouse operations in the midwest,
and that whole sides of beef (& pork?) were shipped
to company "butcher-houses" in urban areas in the
east, south, west, etc. So why shouldn't Cudahy
reefers from Wisconsin or Iowa be sent to California?

Tim O'Connor

Opps, just looked at my posting on the website, to discover Yahoo removed the tabs, so it is impossible to tell which locations
were slaughter vs branch, vs produce, vs cleanser. So lets try again:

Packing Plants/Slaughter houses
CA Los Angeles
CA San Diego
IA Sioux City
KS Wichita
MI Detroit
MN St. Paul
MO Kansas City
NE Omaha
NJ Jersey City,
UT North Salt Lake

Branch Houses
AL Birmingham
AL Mobile
AL Montgomery
AR Little Rock
CA Fresno
CA San Francisco
CT Bridgeport
CT New Haven
CT Waterbury
FL Jacksonville
FL Miami
FL Orlando
FL Pensacola
FL Tampa
GA Atlanta
GA Macon
GA Savannah
IA Clinton
IL Aurora
IL Bloomington
IL Elgin
IL Joliet
IL Peoria
IL Quincy
IL Rockford
IL So. Chicago
IL Springfield
KS Topeka
LA Alexandria
LA Monroe
LA New Orleans
LA Shreveport
MA Boston
MA Fall River
MA Holyoke
MA Lawrence
MA Lowell
MA Worcester
ME Portland
MN Duluth
MN Minneapolis
MS Vicksburg
NH Nashua
NJ Atlantic City
NJ Passaic
NJ Newark
NY Brooklyn
NY NYC
NJ Passaic
NJ Newark
NY Brooklyn
NY NYC
OH Youngstown
PA Braddock
PA Charleroi
PA McKeesport
PA New Castle
PA Beaver Falls
PA Pittston
PA Scranton
PA Philadelphia
RI Providence
TN Memphis
TN Chattanooga
VA Norfolk
Washington D.C.

Produce Plants
IA Davenport
IA Sioux City
IA Winfield
KS Fredonia
KS Wichita
MN Granite Falls
MN Wadena
MN New Ulm
MO Neosho
ND Fairmont
NE Alma
OH Washington C.H.
WI Fond Du Lac


Old Dutch Cleanser Plants
CA Los Angeles
IN Calumet (East Chicago)
NE Omaha
Sydney, Australia
Toronto, Canada
Auckland, New Zealand
Havana, Cuba



Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

Doug, on an old club layout we modeled a "branch house"
called Nashua Beef in Nashua, New Hampshire. Do you know
if this was the Cudahy affiliate in your list?
Tim O'Connor

Don, regarding the Atlas reefer, a search of the group archives will show considerable discussion of the model when it first came
out. Atlas claims the model is based upon a Cudahy car built in 1925. At the time many questioned how prototypical was the car as
photos were not known. I since found one photo of a Cudahy car, CRLX 5557, which appears to match the Atlas model. That photo is
in the Billboard Reefer book, and while built in 1928, it appears to match the Atlas model, right down to the four hinges. The car
is lettered to be returned to E Chicago IND (ie Calumet, home of the Cudahy Packing Co. car shops). Richard Hendrickson may have
more to offer.

Four hinges were not as odd as we think, they were found on many reefers, esp in early years. Manufactures moved to the six hinge
design because it added security that a door would remain in place if a hinge broke or failed, ie screws pulled out of rotted
wood, enroute.

A number of builders built meat reefers, and meat reefers were different from produce reefers. Details and car designs varied.
There is no one correct prototype or model. Vol 14 of the RP CYC had an article in General American 37' meat reefers, with lots of
photos of a specific builder's cars. Martin Loften wrote a wonderful article on Meat reefers first published by the NMRA in one of
their Symposium books, later published in a series in Mainline Modeler magazine. For HO models of wood sided 36'/37' meat reefers
we have the Mather reefer by Red Caboose, Sunshine's model, and the car by Atlas. And lest it be forgotten the old old Varney
model. The MDC 36' old timer has been used by many, I have a fleet of them, but it is not a meat reefer.

The Atlas model appears to be correct, for one prototype. Unfortunately they choose a car apparently used by only one company,
than decided it needed operating doors and ice hatches like it's larger O scale brethren. This lead to oversized hinges. I laid in
a stock of Grandt Line reefer hinges and intend to modify part of my Atlas reefer fleet by gluing the doors shut and adding new
hinges, 3 per side. Atlas offered the car in a variety of paint schemes, the schemes appear to be accurate, but none to my
knowledge were used on the Cudahy car, which is why I bought a bunch of undecs. We all would have been better served if Atlas had
chosen the General American car or another builder who supplied cars to many meat packer car fleets.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

--- In STMFC@..., "Douglas Harding" <dharding@...> wrote:

...Most of what I have is for the Cudahy Packing Co, based in

Omaha/Chicago. However there were two different

companies, one based in Wisconsin (Cudahy Brothers later renamed

Patrick Cudahy) and the Cudahy Co. (started in Omaha, later HQ

moved to Chicago). A history of Patrick Cudahy can be found at

www.patrickcudahy.com

This is all well and good, but still doesn't tell us which company
owned the cars with the CRLX mark. The NMRA reprint of the January '53
ORER shows the mark assigned to Cudahy Packing Co. of Chicago, Ill.
This would be the operation that traces its roots to Omaha, and photos
of CRLX cars in the Hendrickson / Kaminski book on billboard reefers
shows these to be the cars with four door hinges.

The ORER does not seem to have a listing for either Cudahy Brouthers
or Patrick Cudahy Co., but the reefer book has a photo of NRC 2217
with the Patrick Cudahy trademark, and lettering to the effect that
the car was leased to Cudahy Brothers Co. Cudahy, WI., this makes
sense, as the Northern Refrigerator Car Line had started business as
the Milwaukee Refrigerator Car line, of Cudahy, WI. However, even this
reference confuses the Cudahy WI operation with the Cudahy Packing Co.
of Chicago, which I feel is incorrect. The Wikipedia page on the
Merchants Despatch Transportation Co. correctly attributes the
founding of NRC to "Milwaukee's Cudahy brothers." By 1953, NRC also
had its general offices in Chicago, adding to the confusion, but still
had an office in Milwaukee, WI

They were indeed two totally separate operations.

Dennis

Howdy!
 
     Did their cars have markings for specific locations with return to lettering.  Where could correct plans and colors be obtained? 

Thanks,
 
Bob McCarthy
Modeling the Mighty Central of Georgia in Scale S

Sorry Tim, I don't know. The info I shared came from a 1930 Cudahy
"yearbook" I found at a University library. The listing is of Cudahy
owned facilities.

I have no knowledge of any other meat operations in New Hampshire. But
there were many local meat operations that did not fall under USDA (ie
federal) jurisdiction because they did not sell their products in
other states. They would have been under state regs. Here in Iowa we
call them "meal lockers" and they tend to cater to local farmers and
consumers.

But we are getting abit off topic. Suffice it to say that Cudahy
reefers from the Cudahy Packing Co. with CRLX reporting marks would be
seen in Nashua NH.

Doug Harding

For a partial history of the Cudahy companies see

_http://www.patrickcudahy.com/company-founder.html_
(http://www.patrickcudahy.com/company-founder.html)

Rich Orr
(http://www.patrickcudahy.com/company-founder.html+cudahy+packing&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&ie=UTF-8)