B&O M-53 Wagon Top - any hope of a plastic model in our future?


Charlie Duckworth <trduck@...>
 

Well another year almost by us and I still would like a B&O M-53 Wagon
Top on the layout. For a steam - early diesl layout they are a must
have in a rail yard. I got my wish last year with the ART steel reefer
being issued so perhaps there's hope.

Anybody heard any rumors of a scale B&O car being done in plastic?

Charlie
Modeling 'the Mop'
http://mopac51.tripod.com/index.html


Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Charlie,

How about http://www.mrrwarehouse.com/ . Click on "signature series" at left. May not be Intermountain quality, but maybe it will do for a stand-in until something else comes along.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff



Charlie Duckworth wrote:

Well another year almost by us and I still would like a B&O M-53 Wagon Top on the layout. For a steam - early diesl layout they are a must have in a rail yard. I got my wish last year with the ART steel reefer being issued so perhaps there's hope.

Anybody heard any rumors of a scale B&O car being done in plastic?
Charlie
Modeling 'the Mop' http://mopac51.tripod.com/index.html

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




brianehni <behni@...>
 

Or, how about building a kit that will look right?

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sunpricelistsum08.pdf

See page 6 for 4 B&O wagontops, 3 of which are M53s.

Funaro and Camerlengo also make various wagontop kits: http://www.fandckits.com/ The
B&O links will show you 9 different wagontops, including 5 M53, 2 M50, amd 2 M15 kits.

Brian Ehni

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote:

Charlie,

How about http://www.mrrwarehouse.com/ . Click on "signature series" at
left. May not be Intermountain quality, but maybe it will do for a
stand-in until something else comes along.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff



Charlie Duckworth wrote:
Well another year almost by us and I still would like a B&O M-53 Wagon
Top on the layout. For a steam - early diesl layout they are a must
have in a rail yard. I got my wish last year with the ART steel reefer
being issued so perhaps there's hope.

Anybody heard any rumors of a scale B&O car being done in plastic?

Charlie
Modeling 'the Mop'
http://mopac51.tripod.com/index.html



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

The F&C version with its one piece body is much easier to build.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
brianehni
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:15 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: B&O M-53 Wagon Top - any hope of a plastic model in our
future?

Or, how about building a kit that will look right?

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sunpricelistsum08.pdf

See page 6 for 4 B&O wagontops, 3 of which are M53s.

Funaro and Camerlengo also make various wagontop kits:
http://www.fandckits.com/ The
B&O links will show you 9 different wagontops, including 5 M53, 2 M50, amd 2
M15 kits.

Brian Ehni


benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Garth Groff wrote:
"How about http://www.mrrwarehouse.com/ . Click on 'signature series'
at left. May not be Intermountain quality, but maybe it will do for a
stand-in until something else comes along."

Gotta agree with Brian and Jim - $29.95 for what is essentially the old
Cannonball Car Shops/Red Ball kit is questionable, especially when you
can spend the same amount of money for a much nicer resin kit from
Sunshine or Funaro.


Ben Hom


Paul Lyons
 

It is also to "small". We have been through this once before-Check past posts!

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@verizon.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 12:25 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: B&O M-53 Wagon Top - any hope of a plastic model in our future?






The F&C version with its one piece body is much easier to build.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
brianehni
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 12:15 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: B&O M-53 Wagon Top - any hope of a plastic model in our
future?

Or, how about building a kit that will look right?

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sunpricelistsum08.pdf

See page 6 for 4 B&O wagontops, 3 of which are M53s.

Funaro and Camerlengo also make various wagontop kits:
http://www.fandckits.com/ The
B&O links will show you 9 different wagontops, including 5 M53, 2 M50, amd 2
M15 kits.

Brian Ehni


Bill Darnaby
 

Buyer beware with the old Cannonball kit. They are notorious for being too wide. Go with resin.

Bill Darnaby


Gotta agree with Brian and Jim - $29.95 for what is essentially the old
Cannonball Car Shops/Red Ball kit is questionable, especially when you
can spend the same amount of money for a much nicer resin kit from
Sunshine or Funaro.


Ben Hom


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Ben,

I agree that Sunshine or F&C's resin kits would give a superior model. I have one of the Sunshine cars (unbuilt, of course :-D ). But the original question concerned a plastic kit, and that's what Cannonball's is.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Garth Groff wrote:
"How about http://www.mrrwarehouse.com/ . Click on 'signature series'
at left. May not be Intermountain quality, but maybe it will do for a
stand-in until something else comes along."

Gotta agree with Brian and Jim - $29.95 for what is essentially the old Cannonball Car Shops/Red Ball kit is questionable, especially when you can spend the same amount of money for a much nicer resin kit from Sunshine or Funaro.


Ben Hom


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Charles Morrill
 

John,
Is the B&O boxcar available now? I do not find any mention of it on the SCMW web pages.
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Mateyko" <rattler21@sbcglobal.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 2:28 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: B&O M-53 Wagon Top - any hope of a plastic model in our future?


St. Charles Model Works has one in O scale.




Well another year almost by us and I still would like a B&O M-53
Wagon
Top on the layout. For a steam - early diesl layout they are a must
have in a rail yard. I got my wish last year with the ART steel
reefer
being issued so perhaps there's hope.

Anybody heard any rumors of a scale B&O car being done in plastic?

Charlie
Modeling 'the Mop'
http://mopac51.tripod.com/index.html


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Larry Kline
 

The O scale B&O M-53 Wagon Top is available from Rails Unlimited
http://railsunlimited.ribbonrail.com/Models/40boxcars.html

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Morrill" <badlands@...> wrote:

John,
Is the B&O boxcar available now? I do not find any mention of it
on the SCMW web pages.
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Mateyko" <rattler21@...>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 2:28 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: B&O M-53 Wagon Top - any hope of a plastic
model in ourfuture?

St. Charles Model Works has one in O scale.


Dean Payne
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:

Garth Groff wrote:
"How about http://www.mrrwarehouse.com/ . Click on 'signature series'
at left. May not be Intermountain quality, but maybe it will do for a
stand-in until something else comes along."

Gotta agree with Brian and Jim - $29.95 for what is essentially the old
Cannonball Car Shops/Red Ball kit is questionable, especially when you
can spend the same amount of money for a much nicer resin kit from
Sunshine or Funaro.


Ben Hom
I think the original post may have been referring to this from 2005,
which gave me hope that a plastic wagon top would be available in the
foreseeable future:

On Sep 21, 2005, at 10:18 AM, timboconnor@... wrote:
Let me predict that -someone- is working on a B&O Wagontop in
plastic. How could they not be? :-) The question remains, will > >
anyone ever wake up and give us the AAR alternate standard offet hopper?
Why want a plastic wagon top (besides the already mentioned Cannonball
kit with it's problems)? I hear the Sunshine is a bit of a challenge
to get the sides on without gaps, the Funaro & Camerlengo kit is
allegedly top-heavy due to the thick sides... It is available in the
M-15K rebuild and M53 versions, which adds some nice variation.
The thing is, they do other more obscure and less distinctive freight
cars in plastic, why not the wagon tops? (I know, "Why did mfgr X
chose to produce such-and-such instead of fill-in-the-blank" has been
asked many times before.)

Dean Payne


jim_mischke <jmischke@...>
 

With my Cannonball wagontop kit, the two sides were not the same
curvature and shape. So built as intended, it would be lopsided. All
parts fitted poorly.

I thought about making it into a trackside shed but it lacked
sufficient accurate detail, shape, symmetry, and dignity.

The styrene used in old Cannonball kits was such that it stress
whitened with the slightest machining, such that you could not see
where to make the next stroke. This makes all the rework required an
exercise in aggravation management.

I understand their blue box series has some etched brass details, but
if any plastic parts remain, that would just be gold plating a toad.

I cannot recommend the Cannonball wagontop at all. The only
satisfaction I felt about this kit was upon reselling it.






--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "william darnaby" <WDarnaby@...> wrote:

Buyer beware with the old Cannonball kit. They are notorious for
being too
wide. Go with resin.

Bill Darnaby


Gotta agree with Brian and Jim - $29.95 for what is essentially
the old
Cannonball Car Shops/Red Ball kit is questionable, especially
when you
can spend the same amount of money for a much nicer resin kit from
Sunshine or Funaro.


Ben Hom


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Jim Mischke wrote:
With my Cannonball wagontop kit, the two sides were not the same curvature and shape. So built as intended, it would be lopsided. All parts fitted poorly.
They sure did fit poorly, though mine wasn't lopsided. I recall vividly having that wish for an additional hand or two to hold everything during assembly, since nothing was indexed or keyed. The final result was indeed sub-par as to some details, though from the "three-foot rule" perspective it was okay. Or the Mike Brock "passing train component" rule.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Charles Hladik
 

About 10 years ago, I tried to convince Life Like to produce a "wagon top",
and was informed that they wanted cars that were bought by at least 10 roads.
I tried to impress the fact of the ubiquitous ness of this car with no luck.
Still today, one sits on the ground at a very small scrap dealer in
Danville, Virginia as a storage shed. It is a faded green with no trucks and no
way to get photos. It's behind a cyclone fence next to US 58 that has no place
to pull off and the folks at the yard are very much less than friendly.
I went with a couple of F&C kits and like them. In O scale, a few years
ago 3rd Rail (Sunset) offered these at $150.00, along with the "wagon top"
covered hopper and caboose at the same price.
Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division.

In a message dated 12/21/2008 10:22:55 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
bakert@andrews.edu writes:






It is interesting that some modelers apparently consider the B&O M-53 wagon
top a model with limited appeal. True enough, the car was unique to the B&O,
but didn't it show up on almost every railroad in the country. We certainly
saw numerous examples on railroads around Minneapolis/O, but didn't it show up
on almost ever&O.

Yes, the car was unique to the B&O; but, like the MILW horizonatally-O;
but, like the MILW horizonatally-<WBR>ribbed cars, so

Tom

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Garth Groff wrote:
"I agree that Sunshine or F&C's resin kits would give a superior
model. I have one of the Sunshine cars (unbuilt, of course :-D ).
But the original question concerned a plastic kit, and that's what
Cannonball's is."

Dean Payne added:
"I think the original post may have been referring to this from 2005,
which gave me hope that a plastic wagon top would be available in the
foreseeable future:
'Why want a plastic wagon top (besides the already mentioned
Cannonball kit with it's [sic] problems)? I hear the Sunshine is a
bit of a challenge to get the sides on without gaps, the Funaro &
Camerlengo kit is allegedly top-heavy due to the thick sides... It is
available in the M-15K rebuild and M53 versions, which adds some nice
variation. The thing is, they do other more obscure and less
distinctive freight cars in plastic, why not the wagon tops?'"

The B&O Class M-53 was one of several prototypes allegedly tooled in
HO by a certain individual back in 2004-2006. Since then, no models
have been produced and no other status is known. This is a big
sticking point, as many injection-molded manufacturers are not
willing to risk investing in models being done by someone else,
especially if it's perceived as a "one road" or "limited appeal"
prototype.

Anyone know more about this situation?


Ben Hom


Andy Carlson
 

Ben Hom wrote:

The B&O Class M-53 was one of several prototypes allegedly tooled in
HO by a certain individual back in 2004-2006. Since then, no models
have been produced and no other status is known. This is a big
sticking point, as many injection-molded manufacturers are not
willing to risk investing in models being done by someone else,
especially if it's perceived as a "one road" or "limited appeal"
prototype.

Anyone know more about this situation?

Ben Hom

I was told about this a few years ago. seems that Jerry Porter, the former co-founder of Intermountain railway Co. and later founder of the IMWX Co. started tooling an injection molded one-piece B&O wagon top boxcar in HO. He apparently had some problems with it, and it languished for a few years, unfinished.

The project was offered for sale to a smaller manufacturer who upon inspection, laughed and called the mess a waste of material, only the mold base was deemed salvageable. I don't know the current status, perhaps it was sold for scrap? But the timeline for this goes further back than 2004-2006. Branchline was rumored to be considering a B&O round roof car.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Thomas Baker
 

It is interesting that some modelers apparently consider the B&O M-53 wagon top a model with limited appeal. True enough, the car was unique to the B&O, but didn't it show up on almost every railroad in the country. We certainly saw numerous examples on railroads around Minneapolis/St. Paul, some distance away from the B&O.

Yes, the car was unique to the B&O; but, like the MILW horizonatally-ribbed cars, so ubiquitous that it showed up everywhere.

Tom


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Andy Carlson wrote:
The project was offered for sale to a smaller manufacturer who upon inspection, laughed and called the mess a waste of material, only the mold base was deemed salvageable. I don't know the current status, perhaps it was sold for scrap? But the timeline for this goes further back than 2004-2006. Branchline was rumored to be considering a B&O round roof car.
This may be a literally true story, but I always worry about stories getting "improved" with time, so that the "laughing" at the tooling may be a later enlargement of the story. Yet now that Andy has posted this version, it's going to be repeated, since stuff "on the internet" is regarded as gospel by some.
I guess I am a little doubtful that Jerry Porter could not tell if tooling was "a mess," given all his experience in the business. Perhaps the confused person was the prospective buyer.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 21, 2008, at 10:03 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Andy Carlson wrote:
The project was offered for sale to a smaller manufacturer who upon
inspection, laughed and called the mess a waste of material, only
the
mold base was deemed salvageable. I don't know the current status,
perhaps it was sold for scrap? But the timeline for this goes
further
back than 2004-2006. Branchline was rumored to be considering a B&O
round roof car.
This may be a literally true story, but I always worry about
stories getting "improved" with time, so that the "laughing" at the
tooling may be a later enlargement of the story. Yet now that Andy has
posted this version, it's going to be repeated, since stuff "on the
internet" is regarded as gospel by some.
I guess I am a little doubtful that Jerry Porter could not tell
if tooling was "a mess," given all his experience in the business.
Perhaps the confused person was the prospective buyer.


















I'll second Tony's skepticism here. Jerry Porter's business acumen
was awful, but his technical expertise was very good. I'd believe
this yarn only if Jerry had contracted the project to an inept
toolmaker. It wouldn't be the first time that a toolmaker produced
an unacceptable product and then tried to palm it off on someone
other than the person who commissioned it.

Richard Hendrickson


rfederle@...
 

Might be worth a second try at getting permission. You never know. They may have a change of heart.

A similar situation in Hamilton Ohio. There is a PRR Brick Freight House standing and is now a scrap dealers office. It too sits behind fencing and only one or two sides visible to photograph. I e-mailed the owner and surprisingly have been granted permission. I explained that I wanted to photograph the entire exterior and they told me to call before comimng. I should be up that way in a few months.

Give another shot, if you want to.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Robert Federle
---- RUTLANDRS@aol.com wrote:


About 10 years ago, I tried to convince Life Like to produce a "wagon top",
and was informed that they wanted cars that were bought by at least 10 roads.
I tried to impress the fact of the ubiquitous ness of this car with no luck.
Still today, one sits on the ground at a very small scrap dealer in
Danville, Virginia as a storage shed. It is a faded green with no trucks and no
way to get photos. It's behind a cyclone fence next to US 58 that has no place
to pull off and the folks at the yard are very much less than friendly.
I went with a couple of F&C kits and like them. In O scale, a few years
ago 3rd Rail (Sunset) offered these at $150.00, along with the "wagon top"
covered hopper and caboose at the same price.
Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division.



In a message dated 12/21/2008 10:22:55 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
bakert@andrews.edu writes:






It is interesting that some modelers apparently consider the B&O M-53 wagon
top a model with limited appeal. True enough, the car was unique to the B&O,
but didn't it show up on almost every railroad in the country. We certainly
saw numerous examples on railroads around Minneapolis/O, but didn't it show up
on almost ever&O.

Yes, the car was unique to the B&O; but, like the MILW horizonatally-O;
but, like the MILW horizonatally-<WBR>ribbed cars, so

Tom

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
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