In a message dated 1/15/2009 10:45:59 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
cinderandeight@... writes:

<snip>

X43 cars were acquired in two distinct groups. Five digit cars were
bought the old fashion way with car trusts, while six digit cars were
leased. A
small triangle appears between the car number and road name to indicate
"segregated maintenance" of the leased cars. I've never seen exactly what
different
maintenance program applied to these cars were, but when the leases ran out
they were all collected together in Hubbard, OH and cut up as a group (with
a
lot of "triangle" X44 cars too). I was told by the wrecking crews that the
hard
wood flooring in the cars was "brand new" and selling for a pretty penny to
dealers.


The leased cars where leased from Chicago Car. The triangle was for
accounting purposes. The terms of the lease provided that all repairs were
chargeable back to the lessor. This information was gathered by Dick Schweiger when
C&BT shops introduced the X43 family in the late 80's.

Rich Orr
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cemailfooterNO62)

Guys,
I surveyed a dozen photos of X43 sub classes to tease out dates for the
full length vs. under door side sill reinforcements. I find the earliest under
door job dated 5/61, and the latest dated 6/66. As for a date without
reinforcement I found a car repainted in 6/59 without it. Of course there is
nothing to say that the 6/66 paint job might not have been done after the original
work on the side sills, but I sort of think it was done at the same time. The
PRR didn't have the money to repaint cars every four or five years.
The full length bolster to bolster reinforcements were dated from 2/67 to
1/68 in my photos, indicating they were being done right up to the eve of the
merger at least. I didn't go into PC cars (out of the blog's era).
As for paint jobs all these cars had the plain Keystone with large gothic
lettering except for the 6/59 and a 6/61 dated car which were shadowed
Keystone cars. I think this later car had it's reweigh data done at the time of the
sill reinforcement, but was not completely repainted.
As for how universal the repairs were? I found only one car painted in
the Plain Keystone scheme without a reinforcement (date not visible), and that
car was parked as a storage car for so long it's paint had almost completely
left it.
X43 cars were acquired in two distinct groups. Five digit cars were
bought the old fashion way with car trusts, while six digit cars were leased. A
small triangle appears between the car number and road name to indicate
"segregated maintenance" of the leased cars. I've never seen exactly what different
maintenance program applied to these cars were, but when the leases ran out
they were all collected together in Hubbard, OH and cut up as a group (with a
lot of "triangle" X44 cars too). I was told by the wrecking crews that the hard
wood flooring in the cars was "brand new" and selling for a pretty penny to
dealers.
**************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's
capital.(http://www.aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000027)

Andy;



I am sure you are right, but I did not go into some of the issues I do not
have good enough info on. I do not know if the cross-bearers were beefed up
on the 8-foot door cars, or not (I suspect not), but the introduction of door
gussets, beefed-up side sills, and introduction of newer, heavier designs was
clearly a response to the perceived inadequacies of some of the lightweight
designs and other designs adopted earlier for use by the PRR. If most of
their box cars had spent their time hauling grain, these fixes may not have
ever been necessary.



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Andy
Miller
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:46 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] X43C side sills



I suspect the X43C's were also the worst because they had the widest doors (8
ft) and therefore the least longitudinal strength.

regards,

Andy Miller

Thanks, this is what I needed. I have the culprit (Branchline) half-
built and I realized all the photos I saw were the modified cars with
plain keystone. For the early 60s era, then, I'm in the clear.

Thanks also to the PRR truck list that shows ASF A-3 for these cars.

Ron Merrick


--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden J SAD "
<elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Ron;

Were the PRR X43C built with side sill tabs

Yes, just like other "standard" AAR '44 design cars.

and modified later to side sills that spanned from bolster to

bolster?

Yes, but there was also an intermediate fix that just spanned the

doorway

area fitted to some X43 cars

If so, roughly when did that program start and end.

From photos it appears that the full bolster-to-bolster side sill
reinforcement program began in very late '66 or early '67 (I do not

have my

photos here to check), and also involved removal of running boards

and some

ladder cut-downs. Cars were repainted into the then-current "Plain

Keystone"

scheme.

Were all the cars upgraded,

I do not know if the program was all-encompassing, but it sure

appeared to me

that the majority of X43 class cars got this fix. No, I do not

remember it

going into PC days, so the program may have only run through '67.

and were different styles of side sill reinforcement applied?

Yes, there was an intermediate fix applied that featured a

trapezoidal shape

reinforcement, but I will have to find a photo. I think there is a

photo in

one of the Morning Sun books.

For a car painted Shadow Keystone, which style would be most likely?

They may have applied the earlier fix to a car in SK lettering, but

I have

never seen one. All of the later fixes I have seen were repainted

in PK

lettering, since SK repaints ended in Dec of '61.

The X43 classes (X43 through X43C) were a disappointment to the

PRR. They

rapidly exhibited sagging and cracking problems, necessitating

these fixes.

The X43C was the worst, since they were often diverted into coil

service and

other uses involving forklifts, that contributed to the problem.

The PRR,

just a few years after buying all those X43 cars, decided to design

their own

class to follow, the X46, which featured a full-length side sill

made of

shallow channel, doorway stiffeners, and an extra side post above

the

bolster. These latter cars lasted until CR, while the X43 were

sold off,

some to companies like USRE, who refurbished them and sold/leased

them to

other RRs.

Elden Gatwood

I suspect the X43C's were also the worst because they had the widest doors (8 ft) and therefore the least longitudinal strength.

regards,

Andy Miller

Ron;

Were the PRR X43C built with side sill tabs

Yes, just like other "standard" AAR '44 design cars.

and modified later to side sills that spanned from bolster to bolster?

Yes, but there was also an intermediate fix that just spanned the doorway
area fitted to some X43 cars

If so, roughly when did that program start and end.

From photos it appears that the full bolster-to-bolster side sill
reinforcement program began in very late '66 or early '67 (I do not have my
photos here to check), and also involved removal of running boards and some
ladder cut-downs. Cars were repainted into the then-current "Plain Keystone"
scheme.

Were all the cars upgraded,

I do not know if the program was all-encompassing, but it sure appeared to me
that the majority of X43 class cars got this fix. No, I do not remember it
going into PC days, so the program may have only run through '67.

and were different styles of side sill reinforcement applied?

Yes, there was an intermediate fix applied that featured a trapezoidal shape
reinforcement, but I will have to find a photo. I think there is a photo in
one of the Morning Sun books.

For a car painted Shadow Keystone, which style would be most likely?

They may have applied the earlier fix to a car in SK lettering, but I have
never seen one. All of the later fixes I have seen were repainted in PK
lettering, since SK repaints ended in Dec of '61.

The X43 classes (X43 through X43C) were a disappointment to the PRR. They
rapidly exhibited sagging and cracking problems, necessitating these fixes.
The X43C was the worst, since they were often diverted into coil service and
other uses involving forklifts, that contributed to the problem. The PRR,
just a few years after buying all those X43 cars, decided to design their own
class to follow, the X46, which featured a full-length side sill made of
shallow channel, doorway stiffeners, and an extra side post above the
bolster. These latter cars lasted until CR, while the X43 were sold off,
some to companies like USRE, who refurbished them and sold/leased them to
other RRs.

Elden Gatwood

Were the PRR X43C built with side sill tabs and modified later to side
sills that spanned from bolster to bolster? If so, roughly when did
that program start and end. Were all the cars upgraded, and were
different styles of side sill reinforcement applied?

For a car painted Shadow Keystone, which style would be most likely?

Ron Merrick