Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs


Jim Betz
 

I been hearing about - and using - the "recommended percentages" for
freight cars for quite some time. I don't know why I never thought about
this before but my attention just got drawn to a fairly small RR and I
am wondering about what happened on those kinds of operations.
For instance, let's say that the RR in question is a small regional such
as the SP&S or the Sacramento Northern (before they were so totally absorbed
into their parent company/companies). It seems possible to me that their
"home road percentages" were probably often (always?) significantly
different from what you would see on the larger RRs. It wouldn't
surprise me at to see that some of their trains - even the longer ones -
would not have -any- home road cars in them.

So was this the case? Are there recommended "home road percentages"
for RRs of this type? Or did the "return in the general direction of
the home road" practice actually work just as well for small RRs as
it did for the big ones. Another way to ask this question is ... if
the RR in question is a small RR then does it still have the same
general percentage of home road cars on line at any one point in time?
- Jim


Allen Rueter
 

Jim,
As far as the SP&S goes, GN & NP (both being owners) were to supply cars, which they did.
So there is a bias to owners cars, But they always wanted more...

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO




________________________________
From: Jim Betz <jimbetz@jimbetz.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2009 8:06:41 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs


I been hearing about - and using - the "recommended percentages" for
freight cars for quite some time. I don't know why I never thought about
this before but my attention just got drawn to a fairly small RR and I
am wondering about what happened on those kinds of operations.
For instance, let's say that the RR in question is a small regional such
as the SP&S or the Sacramento Northern (before they were so totally absorbed
into their parent company/companies) . It seems possible to me that their
"home road percentages" were probably often (always?) significantly
different from what you would see on the larger RRs. It wouldn't
surprise me at to see that some of their trains - even the longer ones -
would not have -any- home road cars in them.

So was this the case? Are there recommended "home road percentages"
for RRs of this type? Or did the "return in the general direction of
the home road" practice actually work just as well for small RRs as
it did for the big ones. Another way to ask this question is ... if
the RR in question is a small RR then does it still have the same
general percentage of home road cars on line at any one point in time?
- Jim


water.kresse@...
 

Aren't you kind of naturally biased towards who you are connect with?  If you were a regular cross-country route road you would probably be a bigger road?   Smaller roads generally service local businesses like automobile plants and their suppliers, or a bunch of orchards and processing plants, or few coal mines all needing to get their product to th coal docks (example: the Hocking Valley) or a few logging mills back up in some valley up in beautiful nowhere land.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen Rueter" <allen_282@yahoo.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2009 9:22:43 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

Jim,
   As far as the SP&S goes, GN & NP (both being owners) were to supply cars, which they did.
So there is a bias to owners cars, But they always wanted more...    

 --
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO




________________________________
From: Jim Betz <jimbetz@jimbetz.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2009 8:06:41 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs


I been hearing about - and using - the "recommended percentages" for
freight cars for quite some time.  I don't know why I never thought about
this before but my attention just got drawn to a fairly small RR and I
am wondering about what happened on those kinds of operations.
For instance, let's say that the RR in question is a small regional such
as the SP&S or the Sacramento Northern (before they were so totally absorbed
into their parent company/companies) .  It seems possible to me that their
"home road percentages" were probably often (always?) significantly
different from what you would see on the larger RRs.  It wouldn't
surprise me at to see that some of their trains - even the longer ones -
would not have -any- home road cars in them.

So was this the case?  Are there recommended "home road percentages"
for RRs of this type?  Or did the "return in the general direction of
the home road" practice actually work just as well for small RRs as
it did for the big ones.  Another way to ask this question is ... if
the RR in question is a small RR then does it still have the same
general percentage of home road cars on line at any one point in time?
- Jim
    


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Jack Burgess
 

Jim...

My prototype, the Yosemite Valley Railroad, may not be equivalent to the
SP&S or SN. In addition, my research has been limited to switch lists, ARA
cars on hand reports, and photos and not volumes of conductor wheel reports
or such. The YV interchanged with both the SP and ATSF in Merced but was
otherwise a true "point to point" railroad. (They did move some cars from
one interchange to the other however, since I didn't model the ATSF
interchange, that doesn't help me increase the variety in my freight car
fleet.)

In summary, a majority of the cars seen on the YV were from other western
railroads such as the SP and ATSF (largest contributors) and others such as
NP, WP, GN, UP, etc. Reefers were limited to the PFE and Santa Fe. Tank cars
were limited to UTLX as far as I can tell. Home cars (YV) were used for LCL
and on-line to on-line movements but were not allowed off-line. There were
obviously exceptions to these western railroads but I have to restrain
myself when buying new resin kits in order to model the norm and not radical
exceptions. For example, a few years ago, I was corresponding with Richard
Hendrickson about the then-new Sunshine Muncie & Western Ball Line Mather
box car. I really wanted to build one of these cars since I had built an old
Main Line (?) M&W kit as a youngster. While Richard argued that these cars
were seen all over the US and could maybe be seen in Merced, he had to
concede that they wouldn't have been seen anywhere on the YV. Of course, a
few Pennsy and NYC cars can still be considered reasonable, especially since
the on-line lumber mill shipped to the east coast. Knowing where products
manufactured or produced on line were shipped can help determine possible
car owners.

Modeling a shortline can sometimes be frustrating if you want to be accurate
but also have a varied freight car fleet with all of the interesting kits
available.....<g>

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Jack Burgess writes:

Modeling a shortline can sometimes be frustrating if you want to be accurate
but also have a varied freight car fleet with all of the interesting kits
available.....<g>"

There is a video tape...I probably have it...of a short line in the Cascades. It showed Pennsy and NYC box cars on its trains. This showing took place about 10 yrs ago so I can't recall more. I'll try to find the tape.

Mike Brock


sparachuk <sparachuk@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Burgess" <jack@...> wrote:

Jim...

My prototype, the Yosemite Valley Railroad, may not be equivalent to the
SP&S or SN. In addition, my research has been limited to switch
lists, ARA
cars on hand reports, and photos and not volumes of conductor wheel
reports
or such. The YV interchanged with both the SP and ATSF in Merced but was
otherwise a true "point to point" railroad. (They did move some cars
from
one interchange to the other however, since I didn't model the ATSF
interchange, that doesn't help me increase the variety in my freight car
fleet.)

In summary, a majority of the cars seen on the YV were from other
western
railroads such as the SP and ATSF (largest contributors) and others
such as
NP, WP, GN, UP, etc. Reefers were limited to the PFE and Santa Fe.
Tank cars
were limited to UTLX as far as I can tell. Home cars (YV) were used
for LCL
and on-line to on-line movements but were not allowed off-line.
There were
obviously exceptions to these western railroads but I have to restrain
myself when buying new resin kits in order to model the norm and not
radical
exceptions. For example, a few years ago, I was corresponding with
Richard
Hendrickson about the then-new Sunshine Muncie & Western Ball Line
Mather
box car. I really wanted to build one of these cars since I had
built an old
Main Line (?) M&W kit as a youngster. While Richard argued that
these cars
were seen all over the US and could maybe be seen in Merced, he had to
concede that they wouldn't have been seen anywhere on the YV. Of
course, a
few Pennsy and NYC cars can still be considered reasonable,
especially since
the on-line lumber mill shipped to the east coast. Knowing where
products
manufactured or produced on line were shipped can help determine
possible
car owners.

Modeling a shortline can sometimes be frustrating if you want to be
accurate
but also have a varied freight car fleet with all of the interesting
kits
available.....<g>

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com
Jack: You know you could get that Muncie and Western car in there
pretty reasonably. On the NEB&W website, under Mather boxcars, Martin
Lofton is quoted as saying one Ball Line car was on the road for five
and a half years, visiting ninety-three railroads on the trip. The YV
must have been one of those ninety-three, don't you think? Granted the
car would stick out a bit if you ran it all time but still...

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto


Jack Burgess
 

Stephan suggested:
Jack: You know you could get that Muncie and Western car in there
pretty reasonably. On the NEB&W website, under Mather boxcars, Martin
Lofton is quoted as saying one Ball Line car was on the road for five
and a half years, visiting ninety-three railroads on the trip. The YV
must have been one of those ninety-three, don't you think? Granted the
car would stick out a bit if you ran it all time but still...
But what was inside that car...Mason jars? Sand for making the glass?
Neither would have been run over the YV...maybe to Merced to be set out by
the SP but not moved to the YV.

I realize that few visitors (except for Richard and a few others) would
question the existence of a M&W box car on the YV but I would always know
that I was "cheating" if I modeled one. It reminds me of a very good On2
modeler/friend who lived a few blocks from me years ago. (I nearly switched
to On2 because of his modeling but that is another story.) He scratchbuilt
an On2 box car, board for board. Inside, he modeled all of the carlines and
even the tie rods which held the sides together...in other words, everything
on the prototype was included in his model. He also painted and glued a
bunch of Grandt Line 55-gallon drums inside the car. Then he glued the doors
shut....he knew what was inside the car but he did it anyway. So, sometimes
you need to do what your heart says is right regardless....

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Jack Burgess
 

Mike wrote:
There is a video tape...I probably have it...of a short line in the
Cascades. It showed Pennsy and NYC box cars on its trains. This
showing took
place about 10 yrs ago so I can't recall more. I'll try to find the tape.
I've often heard the comment that everyone needs some Pennsy and NYC cars
just because there were so many of them...I have my share even though they
don't show up in any documentation I have yet found.

BTW...Switchlists from 1944 (after the on-line Yosemite Portland Cement
plant closed down which ultimately resulted in the YV's demise and a year of
so after my modeling month/year) show a number of loaded LNE covered hoppers
showing up on the YV from the Merced SP interchange and being moved by the
YV to the closed YPC plant just outside of Merced. I finally figured out
that these cars were hauling bulk cement from the Kaiser Permanente cement
plant near Cupertino in the Bay Area to Merced. Apparently, the Permanente
plant didn't have facilities for bagging cement since it was designed only
for bulk shipments. Kaiser bought the Merced cement operation in June 1944
and then started shipping cement to this plant for bagging since the
Yosemite Portland Cement name was still in good standing....bagged Yosemite
Portland Cement was still being sold into the early 1960s. There is a clip
of some empty cement hoppers being pulled out of the spur to this plant
circa 1944 or 1945 on a clip that I posted to YouTube at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmnwE07auPU

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Dave Nelson
 

-----Original Message-----
if the RR in question is a small RR then does it still have the same
general percentage of home road cars on line at any one point in time?
- Jim
------------------------------------

Just like any other railroad, there are really two questions:

1) What percentage of home road boxcars were typically on home road rails?
2) Were the percentages of foreign road boxcars on such routes substantially
different than the national averages suggest?

I'm not sure there is a firm answer to either question that applies to very
small roads. Consider the home road boxcars problem first. If the small
road has a heavy preponderance of inbound boxcar loads relative to
outbound, then the odds of having to retain any substantial number of home
road boxcars in protective service is pretty slim. Flip the traffic around
and the need for home road boxcars increases greatly -- theirs or their
parents that is as there really isn't any difference then. And that's the
same answer I would give for evaluating the issue on both rural lines and
urban terminals where extremes are more likely to be found.

As for the other question, I 'm not sure but I don't see any reason why --
as a general rule -- it would be different than a larger road. But the
correct answer is probably "It depends". Is it a short bridge line -- the
Chicago Belt for instance? Should be no difference in that situation. The
dead-ended YV? Might be quite different there because the few industries
that got loads -- and who they buy from -- could determine the entire
distribution of foreign road names.

Dave Nelson


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Al Kresse wrote:
Aren't you kind of naturally biased towards who you are connect with? 
Al, it's not how you are "biased," but how box car supply works.
The Nelson-Gilbert theory provides a convincing if not fine-grained
description of it. And it's not about "bias."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


armprem
 

While the Nelson-Gilbert study is a valuable tool it does not apply in every instance.Regional carriers will get more traffic from railroads that either directly connect or are in close proximity.After carefully studying wheel reports for several years I must conclude that what I possess is a better indicator of what ran on the roads that I model.Company annual reports also support my findings.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@signaturepress.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 1:04 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs


Al Kresse wrote:
Aren't you kind of naturally biased towards who you are connect with?
Al, it's not how you are "biased," but how box car supply works.
The Nelson-Gilbert theory provides a convincing if not fine-grained
description of it. And it's not about "bias."

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history



------------------------------------

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sparachuk <sparachuk@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Burgess" <jack@...> wrote:

Stephan suggested:
Jack: You know you could get that Muncie and Western car in there
pretty reasonably. On the NEB&W website, under Mather boxcars, Martin
Lofton is quoted as saying one Ball Line car was on the road for five
and a half years, visiting ninety-three railroads on the trip. The YV
must have been one of those ninety-three, don't you think? Granted the
car would stick out a bit if you ran it all time but still...
But what was inside that car...Mason jars? Sand for making the glass?
Neither would have been run over the YV...maybe to Merced to be set
out by
the SP but not moved to the YV.

I realize that few visitors (except for Richard and a few others) would
question the existence of a M&W box car on the YV but I would always
know
that I was "cheating" if I modeled one. It reminds me of a very good On2
modeler/friend who lived a few blocks from me years ago. (I nearly
switched
to On2 because of his modeling but that is another story.) He
scratchbuilt
an On2 box car, board for board. Inside, he modeled all of the
carlines and
even the tie rods which held the sides together...in other words,
everything
on the prototype was included in his model. He also painted and glued a
bunch of Grandt Line 55-gallon drums inside the car. Then he glued
the doors
shut....he knew what was inside the car but he did it anyway. So,
sometimes
you need to do what your heart says is right regardless....

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com
Jack: I would guess that if that car wasn't home for five and a half
years it was probably treated as a "Next load, any road" early form of
Railbox car by anybody that got their hands on it. It would be a bit
of a "pickle car" on a small layout though.
Stephan Parachuk
Toronto


Bruce Smith
 

On Feb 3, 2009, at 10:40 PM, Jack Burgess wrote:

Stephan suggested:
Jack: You know you could get that Muncie and Western car in there
pretty reasonably. On the NEB&W website, under Mather boxcars, Martin
Lofton is quoted as saying one Ball Line car was on the road for five
and a half years, visiting ninety-three railroads on the trip. The YV
must have been one of those ninety-three, don't you think? Granted the
car would stick out a bit if you ran it all time but still...
But what was inside that car...Mason jars? Sand for making the glass?
Neither would have been run over the YV...maybe to Merced to be set out by
the SP but not moved to the YV.
Jack,

I think that you're making a false assumption that those cars were either headed to or from home rails. As Stephan's example as well as many others clearly show, many cars traveled with multiple loads before returning to home rails. Any cargo loaded into a box car ON ANY ROAD destined for the YV could have run in that car. I agree that it would be highly unlikely for an empty M&W car to end up on the YV for loading, but it is entire plausible that an M&W car has been reloaded somewhere, perhaps west of the YV, with cargo for the YV.

Folks can argue whether the Nelson-Gilbert model is valid or not 'til they are blue in the face, but one advantage we, as WWII era modelers have, is that the Nelson-Gilbert model is the RULE... since the car service rules were suspended. What that does for you in this situation is unclear, since the M&W proportion of the national pool is pretty small...say for the purposes of discussion, 0.1% In that case one M&W car would visit the YV for every 1000 foreign boxcars that visit. Not impossible, but definitely unlikely. Normally, I think most of us say "don't model the oddballs", but in this case, this is a "teachable moment". The presence of occasional rare-road boxcars represents the REALITY of the WWII traffic pattern, and is part of what is "normal" for that period of time. I have reserved a small percentage of my fleet for "interesting" rare foreign cars for precisely that reason.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
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Jack Burgess
 

Bruce noted:

[snip]
Folks can argue whether the Nelson-Gilbert model is valid or not 'til
they are blue in the face, but one advantage we, as WWII era modelers
have, is that the Nelson-Gilbert model is the RULE... since the car
service rules were suspended.
But I model 1939...<g>

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


S hed <shed999@...>
 

Its been a few years since I last looked up this information but I know that Railway Age used to publish this kind of data in either their January or February issues (or maybe it was monthly?).

I am 100% sure they showed the number of engines on the road and the number of engines out of service. And I am 95% sure that the tables show how many cars (or percentage) were home road cars and how many were foreign cars that ran on the railroad for the previous year. Like I said, it has been a few years since I went to the library and got that information. And I know that they published the data for the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, and possibly the 1950s.

I seem to recall that Railway Age did this for most class one railroads. And I'm pretty sure that they did that for SP&S but I am not sure if they did it for the SN. Does anyone else remember that this too?

- Steve Hedlund, Everett, WA



To: STMFC@yahoogroups.comFrom: jimbetz@jimbetz.comDate: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 18:06:41 -0800Subject: [STMFC] Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs



I been hearing about - and using - the "recommended percentages" forfreight cars for quite some time. I don't know why I never thought aboutthis before but my attention just got drawn to a fairly small RR and I am wondering about what happened on those kinds of operations.For instance, let's say that the RR in question is a small regional such as the SP&S or the Sacramento Northern (before they were so totally absorbed into their parent company/companies). It seems possible to me that their"home road percentages" were probably often (always?) significantlydifferent from what you would see on the larger RRs. It wouldn't surprise me at to see that some of their trains - even the longer ones -would not have -any- home road cars in them.So was this the case? Are there recommended "home road percentages"for RRs of this type? Or did the "return in the general direction ofthe home road" practice actually work just as well for small RRs asit did for the big ones. Another way to ask this question is ... ifthe RR in question is a small RR then does it still have the samegeneral percentage of home road cars on line at any one point in time?- Jim





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Bruce Smith
 

On Feb 4, 2009, at 9:35 AM, S hed wrote:


Its been a few years since I last looked up this information but I know that Railway Age used to publish this kind of data in either their January or February issues (or maybe it was monthly?).

I am 100% sure they showed the number of engines on the road and the number of engines out of service. And I am 95% sure that the tables show how many cars (or percentage) were home road cars and how many were foreign cars that ran on the railroad for the previous year. Like I said, it has been a few years since I went to the library and got that information. And I know that they published the data for the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, and possibly the 1950s.

I seem to recall that Railway Age did this for most class one railroads. And I'm pretty sure that they did that for SP&S but I am not sure if they did it for the SN. Does anyone else remember that this too?

- Steve Hedlund, Everett, WA
Steve,

The problem with that sort of data is that it is not broken down by car type, and so it can be pretty hard to use. For example, the PRR averaged just about 50% home road cars for the entire steam era. So does that mean that 50% of my boxcars are PRR? Nope! In reality, as we have talked about here many times, hoppers roamed less than gons, which roamed less than boxcars. So a "guestimate" for the PRR would be 75% home road hoppers, 50% home road gons and only 25% home road boxcars. Thus, only one type of cars, gons, comes close to the data in Railway Age.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Bruce Smith
 

On Feb 4, 2009, at 9:34 AM, Jack Burgess wrote:

Bruce noted:

[snip]
Folks can argue whether the Nelson-Gilbert model is valid or not 'til
they are blue in the face, but one advantage we, as WWII era modelers
have, is that the Nelson-Gilbert model is the RULE... since the car
service rules were suspended.
But I model 1939...<g>
Oh right <G>... Well, the good news is that boxcar utilization was already an issue and while the car service rules had yet to be suspended, they were widely ignored ;^)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Jack Burgess
 

Steve wrote:

Its been a few years since I last looked up this information but
I know that Railway Age used to publish this kind of data in
either their January or February issues (or maybe it was monthly?).
We talked about this a few months ago regarding reports, etc. It is obvious
that the railroads collected this information because of per diem payments.
I have some AAR "Empty Freight Cars on Hand" data which was tabulated twice
a month...on the 15th and on the 31st. I wish I had more but what I have is
for the period December 31, 1936 through March 31, 1937. The empty cars on
hand on those reporting dates were:

ATSF Box 14
GN Box 4
SP Box 16
UP Box 1
Other Box 7
SP Auto 1
UP Auto 2
WP Auto 14
ATSF Open Top 14
SP Open Top 3
Other* 13
* Other (Not box, auto, refrig, or open top)

This is obviously a very small sample but there were 69 freight cars from
western roads (ATSF, SP, etc.) and 20 non-western railroad cars meaning 77%
of the empty cars on hand on those dates were from western roads. The
"other" box cars could have included NYC and anything else...those might
have been in proportion to the national fleet. The Other* cars would have
included tank cars (most likely ULTX), refrigerator cars (PFE, Santa Fe),
and other types of cars.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Jack Burgess writes:

"I wish I had more but what I have is
for the period December 31, 1936 through March 31, 1937. The empty cars on
hand on those reporting dates were:

ATSF Box 14
GN Box 4
SP Box 16
UP Box 1
Other Box 7
SP Auto 1
UP Auto 2
WP Auto 14
ATSF Open Top 14
SP Open Top 3
Other* 13
* Other (Not box, auto, refrig, or open top)"

This is obviously a very small sample but there were 69 freight cars from
western roads (ATSF, SP, etc.) and 20 non-western railroad cars meaning 77%
of the empty cars on hand on those dates were from western roads. The
"other" box cars could have included NYC and anything else...those might
have been in proportion to the national fleet."

Good grief! Talk about local connection aspects. The ATSF and SP presence makes the larger than projected SP box car presence in Wyoming...commonly referred to as the "SP Ogden Connection box car syndrome"...look like noise. And, I'm not so certain that this is a small sample, either. While there may be only 89 cars and only MTs are being tabulated, from what you say, you are seeing MTs of 1/4 of the yearly activity...perhaps projecting to 1/8th of the total box car activity. The Fraley Wyoming UP data only reflects 1/35 of the box car data for loads and MTs during about a month and a half and we compose theories and laws about box car populations from that data that make the flat earth guys look like geniuses.

BTW, are you aware that you may be in direct violation of Brock's Fifth rule of box cars? [ or is it the fourth? ]. Since you may be unaware..."In every merchandise frt train [ not including coal, reefer, or tank car drags ], Thou Shall have at least ONE NP box car". However, as far as I know, there is no sub rule regarding just MT's.

Mike Brock


Mark Pierce <marcoperforar@...>
 

While the odds of any particular small railroad's car (most likely a
box car) would be on another, far-away, small railroad's tracks is
probably too small to measure, I propose that the odds of any one of
all such small railroads' cars showing up is much higher. For us
model railroaders, I say have a small fleet of "oddball" rolling
stock but rotate them on/off the layout.

Mark Pierce

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Folks can argue whether the Nelson-Gilbert model is valid or
not 'til
they are blue in the face, but one advantage we, as WWII era
modelers
have, is that the Nelson-Gilbert model is the RULE... since the
car
service rules were suspended. What that does for you in this
situation is unclear, since the M&W proportion of the national
pool
is pretty small...say for the purposes of discussion, 0.1% In
that
case one M&W car would visit the YV for every 1000 foreign boxcars
that visit. Not impossible, but definitely unlikely. Normally, I
think most of us say "don't model the oddballs", but in this case,
this is a "teachable moment". The presence of occasional rare-
road
boxcars represents the REALITY of the WWII traffic pattern, and is
part of what is "normal" for that period of time. I have reserved
a
small percentage of my fleet for "interesting" rare foreign cars
for
precisely that reason.