Single-sheathed box cars


Owen Thorne - owen at udel.edu
 

Wow!
Thanks to Jeff, Mike, Doug, Nelson, Ken, Tim, Steve and others for an informative discussion on hide cars and traffic.
I did not know this where my questions on IC 50' composite autocar modeling would lead us but have learned much and hope to incorporate this traffic in my layout traffic planning. Summing up:
  • Americans consumed great quantities of beef so slaughterhouses generated plenty of raw or green hides.
  • Americans also consumed leather in many forms so leather works needed plenty of tanned hides as raw materials.
  • Removing raw hides from slaughterhouses, often near midwestern stockyards, to tanneries was time-sensitive and thereby lucrative.
  • Green hides were also needed in glue factories (and other industries? Soap?) as were other leftovers from tanning and livestock processes needed.
  • This hide and slaughter-waste traffic was important to shippers so was a potentially lucrative source of revenue the railroads needed to court.
  • Vegetable tanneries were usually located near necessary sources of bark, power, water and/or chemicals, and away from city centers.
  • Chrome tanneries located near sources of chemicals producing soft stretchy leather for clothing and upholstery. Both stank and generated nasty wastes.
  • Tanned leather then needed to be moved from tanneries to factories producing clothing, tack, furniture, belts, accessories or vehicles.
  • Green hides ruined the linings of railroad equipment for any other service so older cars, or those not worth reconditioning, were best suited.
  • Wooden double and single sheathed cars were more likely to be wearing out than newer steel cars would be in the 1940-50's.
  • Steel cars could be used but almost all were wood lined and floored so the same result - good for nothing else afterwards.
  • One wonders, were older stock cars or reefers on their last legs utilized for green hides? Open cars seem counterproductive (the soup factor.)
  • Once in hide service, a house car remained in captive service, returned empty then used and again as such until worn out or wrecked.
  • Tanned hides would not likely travel in green/raw hide cars due to the stink so newer, clean, tight boxcars would be needed for traffic to factories.
  • Even if one does not model a stockyard, slaughterhouse or tannery - or a siding serving one off-stage - one can simulate run-through hide traffic.
  • Stockyards, tanneries and leather works generated additional loads for our STMFcars beyond the scope of this discussion. Maybe a new thread?
Model railroading is fun! Thank you, all,
Owen Thorne


Schleigh Mike
 

While the subject of this thread has been “Single-Sheathed Boxcars" it has certainly turned into a ‘hide car’ discussion.  Perhaps some of the group attended an RPM where my talk on this subject was given some years ago.  It was based on records (ORERs, yard reports, way bills, photos, etc.) of several hundred cars used for hide service during the period roughly 1950 into the early 1970s.  Findings reported were generally as follows——

        ORER-rostered groups of cars in this service was rare before 1960.  ATSF (40180-40244 & 40450-40474), CGW (4800-4989), and UP (340000-340886) were the only examples found.  RI began doing this about 1960 (40XXX series) and IC perhaps a bit earlier (34XXX(?) series) but I could not pin down the date of their first assignments.  Later in the 1960s & 70s this became more common but not consistent among RRs.

        Instead, railroads simply pulled needed cars from their XM (and other) rosters and used them for hide service.  Probably most received stenciling pertaining to “HIDE LOADING ONLY” but this was not apparently mandatory.  Sometimes this labelling would contain ‘return when empty’ messages but certainly not consistently.

        Cars assigned to this service were by any AAR designation essentially XM ‘roamers’ but you might ask, “How did that work for a smelly hide car?”  Car inspectors and clerks never doubted when they were standing near a hide car.  Thus they would never assign one to go anywhere but back home.

        While many hide cars were SS, this was nowhere the practiced rule.  Steel and wood sheathed cars were found in the survey, both 40 & 50 feet.  And cars were not necessarily old.  One example found was a B&O M-61 loaded at Denver in 1956.  This 50’ car was less than five years old.  PRR X29s were found loaded in California; Rutland DS car 8145 was loaded in Denver in 1951.  There were reasons non-hide cars would be pressed into this ignominious use but that is another discussion.  Two Swift reefers were loaded at Denver in 1951.  No icing was required via way bill.

         While hide loads were not glamorous needing much protection en-route, they were considered valuable and timely arrival at the tanning destination was expected by shippers and receivers.  Hide quality would diminish if not gotten soon to the tannery.  Complaints would be in order.  Single sheathed cars needed not to be in great condition but their conveyance was expected with minimal delay.

        To the point of lesser protection, Mark Langraf said, "I can attest that green hides showed up in Gowanda NY for many years in open top gondolas……”  Given his description of these loads being “soup” suggests these were carloads of fleshings (aka—skivings or offal) which was feedstock for the rendering (glue) plant there in that ERIE town.  Spoiled or waste hides might have been within the load as well as the offal accounting for the soup.  See a recent post (which I cannot find) by Elden Gatwood illustrating a delightfully done model.

        Doug Harding posted some nice hide car example photos and his copy of WAG 5009, in June 1960, is an invitation to mention the 500+ B&M XM-1 cars the WAG employed from 1958 to mid-1975.  WAG 5009 shows up three years later, in a John LaRue photo, stenciled for hide service working out of Coudersport, Penna. on the C&PA (outside connections via the WAG).  This 1963 photo is the only evidence I have found that any of these former B&M cars were employed by the WAG in this service.  This fleet was formed to bring per-diem to the Company.  On-line they were loaded with finished leather, wood products, merchandise, etc. and travelled all over the country.  They were, as we say, 'XM roamers' and could be loaded anywhere and used in the most high-level service.

Please forgive this long set of comments but I do hope it provides some further insight into the interesting world of hide cars.

Regards from Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna.



On Tuesday, November 30, 2021, 09:18:56 AM EST, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


There were tanneries in several eastern locations.

The Western Maryland Railway served tanneries in Parsons and Elkins. The C&O served a tannery in Frank, WV, at the very end of the Greenbrier branch, just east of Durbin. All three operations were active into the 1970s.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On 11/29/2021 3:42 PM Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41@...> wrote:


Hide processors were also in New York, specifically, the Endicott Johnson Shoe Company that stretched along the ERIE and DL&W tracks from Binghamton through Johnson City and Endicott (about 6 miles).  The WAG also served large tanneries in Elkland  and Westfield, PA just south of the NY-PA border.

Todd Sullivan



Eric Hansmann
 

There were tanneries in several eastern locations.

The Western Maryland Railway served tanneries in Parsons and Elkins. The C&O served a tannery in Frank, WV, at the very end of the Greenbrier branch, just east of Durbin. All three operations were active into the 1970s.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On 11/29/2021 3:42 PM Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41@...> wrote:


Hide processors were also in New York, specifically, the Endicott Johnson Shoe Company that stretched along the ERIE and DL&W tracks from Binghamton through Johnson City and Endicott (about 6 miles).  The WAG also served large tanneries in Elkland  and Westfield, PA just south of the NY-PA border.

Todd Sullivan



Kenneth Montero
 

Please note that the WAG boxcar still retained, in the upper right corner, the logo of its former owner, the Boston & Maine Railroad.

Ken Montero

On 11/29/2021 5:58 PM Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:


Nelson yes SS cars were used for hide service. Here are a few photos.


Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars


Most of the hide cars I’ve seen modeled were 40 ft. steel boxcars. Was that pretty standard, or were SS boxcars also used?


Nelson Moyer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars


Owen, hides can indeed be heavy. Sometime in the 50s packing plants switched from salting dry hides to soaking hides in a brine solution and shipping them wet. Wet hides are indeed much heavier than dry hides.


As to interchange. Hides came from slaughter houses, ie packing plants. Most of which were located in the Mid-West, ie Chicago, Omaha, Kansas City, St Paul, Sioux City, etc. And you will find that many tanneries were located out east, New England, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Tennessee, etc. A IC hide car would most likely be in captive service. It could be loaded with hides online in Chicago, Dubuque, Waterloo, Fort Dodge, Omaha, Sioux City and other locations. But the raw hides would be headed east, interchanged most likely at Chicago to any of many eastern roads.


Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 



Kenneth Montero
 

If I recall correctly, WAG (Wellsville, Addison & Galeton) was nicknamed the "Sole Leather Line" because of the tanneries along that railroad.

Here is a link to a short book about the WAG (please note the reservation of copyright notice):


Ken Montero



On 11/29/2021 5:42 PM Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41@...> wrote:


Hide processors were also in New York, specifically, the Endicott Johnson Shoe Company that stretched along the ERIE and DL&W tracks from Binghamton through Johnson City and Endicott (about 6 miles).  The WAG also served large tanneries in Elkland  and Westfield, PA just south of the NY-PA border.

Todd Sullivan


Tim O'Connor
 


and at least one 40' car 😁

On 11/29/2021 8:54 PM, Steve SANDIFER wrote:

Santa Fe had some SS 50’ hide cars.

 

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Most of the hide cars I’ve seen modeled were 40 ft. steel boxcars. Was that pretty standard, or were SS boxcars also used?

 

Nelson Moyer



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Steve SANDIFER
 

 

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 7:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Santa Fe had some SS 50’ hide cars.

 

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Most of the hide cars I’ve seen modeled were 40 ft. steel boxcars. Was that pretty standard, or were SS boxcars also used?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Owen, hides can indeed be heavy. Sometime in the 50s packing plants switched from salting dry hides to soaking hides in a brine solution and shipping them wet. Wet hides are indeed much heavier than dry hides.

 

As to interchange. Hides came from slaughter houses, ie packing plants. Most of which were located in the Mid-West, ie Chicago, Omaha, Kansas City, St Paul, Sioux City, etc. And you will find that many tanneries were located out east, New England, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Tennessee, etc. A IC hide car would most likely be in captive service. It could be loaded with hides online in Chicago, Dubuque, Waterloo, Fort Dodge, Omaha, Sioux City and other locations. But the raw hides would be headed east, interchanged most likely at Chicago to any of many eastern roads.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Steve SANDIFER
 

Santa Fe had some SS 50’ hide cars.

 

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Most of the hide cars I’ve seen modeled were 40 ft. steel boxcars. Was that pretty standard, or were SS boxcars also used?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Owen, hides can indeed be heavy. Sometime in the 50s packing plants switched from salting dry hides to soaking hides in a brine solution and shipping them wet. Wet hides are indeed much heavier than dry hides.

 

As to interchange. Hides came from slaughter houses, ie packing plants. Most of which were located in the Mid-West, ie Chicago, Omaha, Kansas City, St Paul, Sioux City, etc. And you will find that many tanneries were located out east, New England, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Tennessee, etc. A IC hide car would most likely be in captive service. It could be loaded with hides online in Chicago, Dubuque, Waterloo, Fort Dodge, Omaha, Sioux City and other locations. But the raw hides would be headed east, interchanged most likely at Chicago to any of many eastern roads.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Jeffrey White
 

Owen,

According to the 1960 IC Equipment list the IC had 34  50 foot SS cars numbered 34866 - 34899 and  5 cars in 34990 - 34999 There were also 51 40 foot Single Sheathed cars numbered between 34900 - 34989 as of 1 January 1960.

 

There were still 253 50 foot single sheath boxcars in service on 1 January 1960. 47 of these cars were in wood chip service and 55 in merchandise service.

Jeff White

Alma IL


On 11/29/2021 3:34 PM, Owen Thorne wrote:   
Thank you, Jeff,

I can almost smell that hide car through my screen! 

Interesting that car IC 34861 in your photo does not match the diagram you sent for the earlier group of 50' s/s IC hide cars, 34990-99, embedded in the diagram for 40000-40089, which indicates "no metal panel," that the left door "closed" but not indicated, noted or shown as having been removed, and a "stemwinder" Universal brake wheel retained at that late date (1954?) As this new photo is of a power-brake equipped, wooden but steel reinforced door car in a new number series for me, I looked it up in ORER 1959 and found 34890-99 the closest series (ten cars) but not a match. So this conversion may have been either after our STMFC period or "off the books."

The CU FT 4303 of the hide car listings matches that of the three IC non-end-door equipped 50' composite autocar groups. Curious is the increase in CAPY from 75000 to 100000 lbs. Is this likely just a truck/bearing upgrade? The earlier discussed 34990-99 matching your diagram also showed this CAPY increase when they appeared in the 1955 ORER. Were hides so heavy?

In the 1959 ORER there is also a group of 74 (up from 68 in 1955) 40' 40t composite 6' door, small boxcars in 34900-34989 series so, IC guys, are all the 34xxx-series cars in the late-steam era hide cars?

Finally, how likely would IC hide cars be interchanged to deliver to a leather works in, say, Wilmington, DE, or Philadelphia, PA?

Thank you,
Owen Thorne 
owen at udel dot edu


Tim O'Connor
 


The NP and ATSF both had single sheathed hide cars.

On 11/29/2021 5:28 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

Most of the hide cars I’ve seen modeled were 40 ft. steel boxcars. Was that pretty standard, or were SS boxcars also used?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Owen, hides can indeed be heavy. Sometime in the 50s packing plants switched from salting dry hides to soaking hides in a brine solution and shipping them wet. Wet hides are indeed much heavier than dry hides.

 

As to interchange. Hides came from slaughter houses, ie packing plants. Most of which were located in the Mid-West, ie Chicago, Omaha, Kansas City, St Paul, Sioux City, etc. And you will find that many tanneries were located out east, New England, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Tennessee, etc. A IC hide car would most likely be in captive service. It could be loaded with hides online in Chicago, Dubuque, Waterloo, Fort Dodge, Omaha, Sioux City and other locations. But the raw hides would be headed east, interchanged most likely at Chicago to any of many eastern roads.

 

Doug Harding



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks for the photos, Doug. I guess I can consign one of my XM-21s or XM-23s to hide service, since they were both built in the teens, and there were still  90 in revenue service in 1953.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:59 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Nelson yes SS cars were used for hide service. Here are a few photos.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Nelson Moyer
 

The smell was what prompted my question. Intuitively, steel cars would stink less when the doors were closed than wood cars, since liner would soak up the slop, but it wouldn’t penetrate the steel, whereas SS cars would never dry out, and the smell would be worse outside the car, even with the doors closed. Of course, I doubt that the railroads cared much about shielding the public (or their employees for that matter) from odors.

 

I’d use an old steel boxcar as a hide car, but the CB&Q didn’t have any old steel boxcars in 1953. The built the first steel boxcar in 1940.

 

Seem to me that cars with damaged liners wouldn’t be good for hides, as they could damage the payload during loading and unloading.

 

I can relate somewhat to terrible smells. I had an EPA research grant to study pathogen removal in wastewater treatment lagoons at hog confinement facilities. I visited a couple of facilities to collect samples, and the odor was so strong that it escaped iced coolers holding the samples in the trunk of my car, and I had to drive two hours back to the lab with all the car windows rolled down just to be able to breath. The car reeked for about a week after that. I stored the samples in coolers in the cold room at the lab, and they were only opened for processing in a biological safety cabinet, not because they were that dangerous, but to contain and vent the odor. Fortunately, my research assistant did most of that work.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Hide cars were any boxcars that were unfit for most kinds of loading - grain, finished lumber, merchandise, etc.  They tended to have rough interiors (worn out, interior sheathing splintered, with holes).  Once a car was loaded wiht green hides, you  NEVER loaded it with anything else.  Oh, and they smelled terrible!

Todd Sullivan


Douglas Harding
 

Nelson yes SS cars were used for hide service. Here are a few photos.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Most of the hide cars I’ve seen modeled were 40 ft. steel boxcars. Was that pretty standard, or were SS boxcars also used?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Owen, hides can indeed be heavy. Sometime in the 50s packing plants switched from salting dry hides to soaking hides in a brine solution and shipping them wet. Wet hides are indeed much heavier than dry hides.

 

As to interchange. Hides came from slaughter houses, ie packing plants. Most of which were located in the Mid-West, ie Chicago, Omaha, Kansas City, St Paul, Sioux City, etc. And you will find that many tanneries were located out east, New England, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Tennessee, etc. A IC hide car would most likely be in captive service. It could be loaded with hides online in Chicago, Dubuque, Waterloo, Fort Dodge, Omaha, Sioux City and other locations. But the raw hides would be headed east, interchanged most likely at Chicago to any of many eastern roads.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Allan Smith
 

IC 50' SS cars 40140 and 40321 appeared on the Sierra RR in California in 1952 They hauled lumber from the Sonora mills to eastern markets. Conductors list from 1952 on the Sierra RR

Al Smith
Sonora CA

On Monday, November 29, 2021, 02:43:58 PM PST, mark_landgraf via groups.io <mark_landgraf@...> wrote:


I can attest that green hides showed up in Gowanda NY for many years in open top gondolas. As they collected rain or snow en route, it created a soup. The conductors were sure to keep coupling speeds low so as prevent slosh overs from occurring.  And oh the smell in the summer.

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY


On Monday, November 29, 2021, 5:35:19 PM EST, Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41@...> wrote:


Hide cars were any boxcars that were unfit for most kinds of loading - grain, finished lumber, merchandise, etc.  They tended to have rough interiors (worn out, interior sheathing splintered, with holes).  Once a car was loaded wiht green hides, you  NEVER loaded it with anything else.  Oh, and they smelled terrible!

Todd Sullivan


mark_landgraf
 

I can attest that green hides showed up in Gowanda NY for many years in open top gondolas. As they collected rain or snow en route, it created a soup. The conductors were sure to keep coupling speeds low so as prevent slosh overs from occurring.  And oh the smell in the summer.

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY


On Monday, November 29, 2021, 5:35:19 PM EST, Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41@...> wrote:


Hide cars were any boxcars that were unfit for most kinds of loading - grain, finished lumber, merchandise, etc.  They tended to have rough interiors (worn out, interior sheathing splintered, with holes).  Once a car was loaded wiht green hides, you  NEVER loaded it with anything else.  Oh, and they smelled terrible!

Todd Sullivan


Todd Sullivan
 

Hide processors were also in New York, specifically, the Endicott Johnson Shoe Company that stretched along the ERIE and DL&W tracks from Binghamton through Johnson City and Endicott (about 6 miles).  The WAG also served large tanneries in Elkland  and Westfield, PA just south of the NY-PA border.

Todd Sullivan


Todd Sullivan
 

Hide cars were any boxcars that were unfit for most kinds of loading - grain, finished lumber, merchandise, etc.  They tended to have rough interiors (worn out, interior sheathing splintered, with holes).  Once a car was loaded wiht green hides, you  NEVER loaded it with anything else.  Oh, and they smelled terrible!

Todd Sullivan


Nelson Moyer
 

Most of the hide cars I’ve seen modeled were 40 ft. steel boxcars. Was that pretty standard, or were SS boxcars also used?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Owen, hides can indeed be heavy. Sometime in the 50s packing plants switched from salting dry hides to soaking hides in a brine solution and shipping them wet. Wet hides are indeed much heavier than dry hides.

 

As to interchange. Hides came from slaughter houses, ie packing plants. Most of which were located in the Mid-West, ie Chicago, Omaha, Kansas City, St Paul, Sioux City, etc. And you will find that many tanneries were located out east, New England, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Tennessee, etc. A IC hide car would most likely be in captive service. It could be loaded with hides online in Chicago, Dubuque, Waterloo, Fort Dodge, Omaha, Sioux City and other locations. But the raw hides would be headed east, interchanged most likely at Chicago to any of many eastern roads.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Douglas Harding
 

Owen, hides can indeed be heavy. Sometime in the 50s packing plants switched from salting dry hides to soaking hides in a brine solution and shipping them wet. Wet hides are indeed much heavier than dry hides.

 

As to interchange. Hides came from slaughter houses, ie packing plants. Most of which were located in the Mid-West, ie Chicago, Omaha, Kansas City, St Paul, Sioux City, etc. And you will find that many tanneries were located out east, New England, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Tennessee, etc. A IC hide car would most likely be in captive service. It could be loaded with hides online in Chicago, Dubuque, Waterloo, Fort Dodge, Omaha, Sioux City and other locations. But the raw hides would be headed east, interchanged most likely at Chicago to any of many eastern roads.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Owen Thorne
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 3:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Thank you, Jeff,

I can almost smell that hide car through my screen! 

Interesting that car IC 34861 in your photo does not match the diagram you sent for the earlier group of 50' s/s IC hide cars, 34990-99, embedded in the diagram for 40000-40089, which indicates "no metal panel," that the left door "closed" but not indicated, noted or shown as having been removed, and a "stemwinder" Universal brake wheel retained at that late date (1954?) As this new photo is of a power-brake equipped, wooden but steel reinforced door car in a new number series for me, I looked it up in ORER 1959 and found 34890-99 the closest series (ten cars) but not a match. So this conversion may have been either after our STMFC period or "off the books."

The CU FT 4303 of the hide car listings matches that of the three IC non-end-door equipped 50' composite autocar groups. Curious is the increase in CAPY from 75000 to 100000 lbs. Is this likely just a truck/bearing upgrade? The earlier discussed 34990-99 matching your diagram also showed this CAPY increase when they appeared in the 1955 ORER. Were hides so heavy?

In the 1959 ORER there is also a group of 74 (up from 68 in 1955) 40' 40t composite 6' door, small boxcars in 34900-34989 series so, IC guys, are all the 34xxx-series cars in the late-steam era hide cars?

Finally, how likely would IC hide cars be interchanged to deliver to a leather works in, say, Wilmington, DE, or Philadelphia, PA?

Thank you,
Owen Thorne 
owen at udel dot edu


Owen Thorne - owen at udel.edu
 

Thank you, Jeff,

I can almost smell that hide car through my screen! 

Interesting that car IC 34861 in your photo does not match the diagram you sent for the earlier group of 50' s/s IC hide cars, 34990-99, embedded in the diagram for 40000-40089, which indicates "no metal panel," that the left door "closed" but not indicated, noted or shown as having been removed, and a "stemwinder" Universal brake wheel retained at that late date (1954?) As this new photo is of a power-brake equipped, wooden but steel reinforced door car in a new number series for me, I looked it up in ORER 1959 and found 34890-99 the closest series (ten cars) but not a match. So this conversion may have been either after our STMFC period or "off the books."

The CU FT 4303 of the hide car listings matches that of the three IC non-end-door equipped 50' composite autocar groups. Curious is the increase in CAPY from 75000 to 100000 lbs. Is this likely just a truck/bearing upgrade? The earlier discussed 34990-99 matching your diagram also showed this CAPY increase when they appeared in the 1955 ORER. Were hides so heavy?

In the 1959 ORER there is also a group of 74 (up from 68 in 1955) 40' 40t composite 6' door, small boxcars in 34900-34989 series so, IC guys, are all the 34xxx-series cars in the late-steam era hide cars?

Finally, how likely would IC hide cars be interchanged to deliver to a leather works in, say, Wilmington, DE, or Philadelphia, PA?

Thank you,
Owen Thorne 
owen at udel dot edu