coke


Walter Cox
 

In a message dated 2/26/2009 8:09:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ed_mines@... writes:

<Where there regions where dealers sold both soft or hard coal for
home heating? I know industrial customers generally used soft coal in
areas where homeowners used anthracite.>

I would very much doubt it. I remember bringing home a bag of bituminous
coal from the steam era railroad track in my neighborhood. My mom only used a
little of it and I don't think I have ever seen or smelled such a noxious cloud
of smoke as we had in our kitchen that day. Walt
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ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., Al Campbell wrote:

Hello Don and others. I very much remember as a child growing up in
Chelsea
MA in the late 40's and early 50's we would occasionally use coke.
Money
usually was a little tight at the time but we would use coke
sometimes because the
heat content was higher than coal. Coke was a little more
expensive than
coal
More expensive than bituminous coal or anthracite?

Any idea where the coke was made?

Where there regions where dealers sold both soft or hard coal for
home heating? I know industrial customers generally used soft coal in
areas where homeowners used anthracite.

Ed


cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, ed_mines <ed_mines@...> wrote:
Any idea where the coke was made?

In the days before cross country pipelines, many areas were served by "coal gas" companies, with those huge floating storage tanks. Was their gas the result of coke production? Something I have always wondered about.CJ Riley







In the days before cross country gas pipelines, many areas were served by "coal gas companies
".


Malcolm H. Houck
 

Was their gas the result of coke production?
Something I have always wondered about..

Yes,

That was the most common source of coke. The Lowell (Mass.)
Gas Works shut down in the late 1970's when it could no longer
get rid of the coal gas "by product" of coke by selling it to users
for heating fuel.

Once the natural gas pipelines were in service (up in Eastern
Massachusetts it was a Tenneco Gas pipeline) many users
switched from coke to natural gas. Lowell Gas lost its big
institutional users; -- Middlesex County House of Correction
two large local hospitals that'd burned coke in their central
heating plants.

Mal Houck
**************You're invited to Hollywood's biggest party: Get Oscars
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earlyrail
 

Posted by: "cj riley" cjriley42@... cjriley42
Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:33 pm (PST)
--- On Thu, 2/26/09, ed_mines <ed_mines@...> wrote:
Any idea where the coke was made?
In the days before cross country pipelines, many areas were served by "coal gas" companies, with those huge floating storage tanks. Was their gas the result of coke production? Something I have always wondered about.CJ Riley
In the days before cross country gas pipelines, many areas were served by "coal gas companies
".
Yes, Coke was a byproduct of manufactured gas.

Howard Garner


Cyril Durrenberger
 

Usually gassification of coal.  Even small cities had these.  Brainerd Minnesota had one dating back to the early 1900's.  This gas is different from natural gas (which is usually methane and ethane).  Coal gas was normally hydrogen and carbon monoxide, but in some cases it could be converted to methane.
 
Some areas began using natural gas for space heating as early as the mid 1920's.  Much of Texas was converted during that time period.  Basically they reclaimed the natural gas that was a part of crude oil production.  Earlier it was burned at the production site. Still done in some areas of the world.
 
A similar process is now being considered as the best way to use coal for power generation.
 
Cyril Durrenberger

--- On Thu, 2/26/09, cj riley <cjriley42@...> wrote:

From: cj riley <cjriley42@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] coke
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 9:33 PM








--- On Thu, 2/26/09, ed_mines <ed_mines@yahoo. com> wrote:
Any idea where the coke was made?

In the days before cross country pipelines, many areas were served by "coal gas" companies, with those huge floating storage tanks. Was their gas the result of coke production? Something I have always wondered about.CJ Riley

In the days before cross country gas pipelines, many areas were served by "coal gas companies
".
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bill Darnaby
 

Indianapolis still has a coke gas production facility. Both the NKP and Monon had specialty cars assigned to carry the coke, primarily to steel mills. It now goes by truck.

Bill Darnaby


cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

Thanks Mal, for confirming what I long suspected. Having lived in Pittsburgh for many years, The smell of leaking coke furnaces is very familiar to me.

CJ Riley

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, Indian640@... <Indian640@...> wrote:
From: Indian640@... <Indian640@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: coke
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 5:31 AM












Was their gas the result of coke production?

Something I have always wondered about..



Yes,



That was the most common source of coke. The Lowell (Mass.)

Gas Works shut down in the late 1970's when it could no longer

get rid of the coal gas "by product" of coke by selling it to users

for heating fuel.



Once the natural gas pipelines were in service (up in Eastern

Massachusetts it was a Tenneco Gas pipeline) many users

switched from coke to natural gas. Lowell Gas lost its big

institutional users; -- Middlesex County House of Correction

two large local hospitals that'd burned coke in their central

heating plants.



Mal Houck

************ **You're invited to Hollywood's biggest party: Get Oscars

updates, red carpet pics and more at Moviefone.

(http://movies. aol.com/oscars- academy-awards? ncid=emlcntusmov i00000001)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mal Houck wrote:
That [gas production] was the most common source of coke.
Compared to steelmaking uses? I seriously doubt it. But maybe you mean for fuel use outside of the in-plant or in-company consumption of coke made for blast furnaces.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...>
 

Bill and all,
 
I'm sure Bill is referring to Citizens Coke and Gas Utility in Indianapolis.  It was shut down over a year ago and is being dismantled as we speak.
 
CC&G coke was a good source of car loadings for the Monon and NKP in our era.  They also shipped tar and molten sulfur, both by products of the coke making process. I was surprised to learn that a lot of the traffic on the Monon went to smaller mills and foundaries all over the midwest. 
 
I had incorrectly assumed that the loads always went to the large mills in the Calumet Region.
 
Mont Switzer

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, william darnaby <WDarnaby@...> wrote:

From: william darnaby <WDarnaby@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] coke
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 10:30 AM






Indianapolis still has a coke gas production facility. Both the NKP and
Monon had specialty cars assigned to carry the coke, primarily to steel
mills. It now goes by truck.

Bill Darnaby



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Mont;



Are you modeling any of those cool coke (and other) container cars the Monon
had that we saw great photos of in MainLine Modeler?



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Mont
Switzer
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 1:06 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] coke



Bill and all,

I'm sure Bill is referring to Citizens Coke and Gas Utility in Indianapolis.
It was shut down over a year ago and is being dismantled as we speak.

CC&G coke was a good source of car loadings for the Monon and NKP in our era.
They also shipped tar and molten sulfur, both by products of the coke making
process. I was surprised to learn that a lot of the traffic on the Monon went
to smaller mills and foundaries all over the midwest.

I had incorrectly assumed that the loads always went to the large mills in
the Calumet Region.

Mont Switzer

--- On Fri, 2/27/09, william darnaby <WDarnaby@...
<mailto:WDarnaby%40worldnet.att.net> > wrote:

From: william darnaby <WDarnaby@...
<mailto:WDarnaby%40worldnet.att.net> >
Subject: Re: [STMFC] coke
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 10:30 AM

Indianapolis still has a coke gas production facility. Both the NKP and
Monon had specialty cars assigned to carry the coke, primarily to steel
mills. It now goes by truck.

Bill Darnaby


ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., WaltGCox@... wrote:
I would very much doubt it. I remember bringing home a bag of
bituminous
coal from the steam era railroad track in my neighborhood. My mom
only used a
little of it and I don't think I have ever seen or smelled such a
noxious cloud
of smoke as we had in our kitchen that day.
Walt, there were some places that didn't sell anthracite. Was coke more
wide spread than we thought? Whoever mentioned that coke is a byproduct
of illuminating gas is right. Coke must have been produced at many
locations.

Cetainly though there must have been a lot of places where neither
anthracite nor locally produced coke was available.

I've seen bituminous coal refered to as steam coal in areas where
anthracite is used for home heating.

Ed


Malcolm H. Houck
 

Compared to steelmaking uses? I seriously doubt it. But maybe
you mean for fuel use outside of the in-plant or in-company
consumption of coke made for blast furnaces.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.290
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, _thompson@signaturepthompson_
(mailto:thompson@...)
Publishers of books on railroad history


Tony,

Yes, and I meant only as the source of coke burned outside
of areas, of course, where it was plentiful for steel making
and other metallurgical uses, and used as a heating
fuel; -- namely in the Northeast and so far as not exported
elsewhere for steel making and metallurgy uses.

I am well aware of the plentiful uses for coke as a metallurgy
necessary. An ancestor, Blausis Houck, was one of the
prospectors who discovered coal on the East Side of Broad Top
Mountain, Pennsylvania. That particular seam of coal, now
known as a part of the Fulton Seam was originally designated
as the Houck Seam., that is until it was more closely surveyed
and found to be a part of the Fulton Seam.

A part of the development of this coal seam was the
coking operation in beehive coke ovens served by the East
Broad Top RR., the development of which another
ancestor, Squire Evans, participated.

Mal Houck
**************You're invited to Hollywood's biggest party: Get Oscars
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Malcolm H. Houck
 

I've seen bituminous coal referred to as steam coal in areas where
anthracite is used for home heating.

Ed,

The term "steam coal" was often used interchangeably,
to a point of confusion, and with reference to included anthracite
as well as bituminous. Anthracite "Steam Coal" was in sizes
deemed to small for use in furnaces and stoves with grates
designed to accommodate the larger grades of "lump",
"nut" and "egg."

Sometimes called "dust" much of processed quantity of the
smaller sizes of anthracite was discarded in the dumps and piles
of "culm" (combustible materials, as opposed to "slack" which
was non-combustible slate and sandstone) that were the
eyesores of many locations in the anthracite region.

In the course of extensive reclamation projects many of the
anthracite region culm banks of "dust" and "steam coal" have
been mined, and the resident materials reprocessed and used
as power plant fuels.

Mal Houck
**************You're invited to Hollywood's biggest party: Get Oscars
updates, red carpet pics and more at Moviefone.
(http://movies.aol.com/oscars-academy-awards?ncid=emlcntusmovi00000001)


Norman+Laraine Larkin <lono@...>
 

Sounds like the story of the chicken or the egg. Eastern Gas & Fuel in Everett Mass. was an integrated coke/gas producer. from the 30s through the 50s. Integrated here means the facility produced coke (~2.5M annual tons), using soft coal, for Mystic Iron merchant pig blast furnace on the property, foundries all over New England, and retailers of home heating coke. It was rail served by both the B&A (40-car coke trains daily) and B&M (25 cars daily) for distribution to local retailers and foundries. The coking process releases huge quantities of coal gas which can be used for a number of applications. Gas was first processed in the byproducts plant for removal of tar and other toxic chemicals. The primary application here was to supply Boston Gas with large volumes of home cooking gas which was processed (cleaned) in a large facility next to the coking ovens and stored in huge storage tanks. This gas served Boston and a number of northern suburbs. Secondary use of the gas was to heat the coking ovens and the blast furnace stoves. There were a number of facilities like this across the country (without the blast furnace) whose primary function was to produce gas. I believe it's true, though, that the highest volume of coke was produced for the steel industry. It's interesting to note that coke was a byproduct of many manufactured gas producers but not in high enough volume to market on a large scale. On top of that, some manufactured gas processes used coke as fuel.
Norm Larkin

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: coke


Mal Houck wrote:
> That [gas production] was the most common source of coke.

Compared to steelmaking uses? I seriously doubt it. But maybe
you mean for fuel use outside of the in-plant or in-company
consumption of coke made for blast furnaces.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history