Interesting boat load


mcindoefalls
 

Who would ever think to ship a large boat by rail . . . on its SIDE?

http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=-66313070&id=54
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=25008555&id=54

Lots of other good STMFC photos on that site.

Walt Lankenau


mcindoefalls
 


Bruce Smith
 

On Tue, March 3, 2009 7:53 pm, mcindoefalls wrote:
Here's a third image of the boat load (the original two are below it):

http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=1860412688&id=54

http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=-66313070&id=54
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=25008555&id=54

Interesting... the caption reads "A Canadian National Railways flat car
transporting a boat from Qu�bec to North Bay".

Funny, but last I checked, Canadian National was not spelled A.T.S.F. ;^)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Rich Yoder
 

Interesting flat load on a AT&SF Flat car!
Look again at the car markings!
Sincerely, Rich Yoder

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
mcindoefalls
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:54 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Interesting boat load

Here's a third image of the boat load (the original two are below it):

http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=1860412688&id
=54

http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=-66313070&id=
54
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=25008555&id=5
4


Walt Lankenau



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Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 3, 2009, at 5:50 PM, mcindoefalls wrote:

Who would ever think to ship a large boat by rail . . . on its SIDE?

http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?
photoid=-66313070&id=54
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?
photoid=25008555&id=54

Lots of other good STMFC photos on that site.

Walt Lankenau










Walt, serendipity strikes again. I'm finishing up a book for the
Santa Fe historical society on steam era flat and gondola cars - in
fact, the text and images have already gone to the editor - but it's
not too late to make additions, and I just have to have the images of
that Santa Fe Ft-T class flat car with the boat on it in the book.
I'm contacting the museum tomorrow for hi-res scans and permission to
publish. Thanks for calling our attention to them.

Richard Hendrickson


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Interesting photo, Walt, but MIS-captioned. That's a Santa Fe flatcar, not CN. -- Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


mcindoefalls
 

--- In STMFC@..., Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...> wrote:

Interesting photo, Walt, but MIS-captioned. That's a Santa Fe flatcar, not CN. -- Andy
Well of course, I didn't caption it . . . and also, I didn't notice the Santa Fe-ness of that car until the second or third look, because at first I was more interested in the boat. I believe all the photos in that collection are from the CN archives; we're lucky they didn't choose to retouch the car and give it CN reporting marks.

Too bad there are no photos of the idlers, which look like CN 40-foot flats, so we could see what smaller boat parts were shipped along with it. Unfortunately, this load is probably too unique and unforgettable to model, unless it only was operated every 50th session or so. And it probably was not ever, or at least not very often, repeated on the prototype.

Walt Lankenau


rwitt_2000
 

--- In STMFC@..., "mcindoefalls" <mcindoefalls@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Andy Sperandeo asperandeo@ wrote:

Interesting photo, Walt, but MIS-captioned. That's a Santa Fe
flatcar, not CN. -- Andy

Well of course, I didn't caption it . . . and also, I didn't notice
the Santa Fe-ness of that car until the second or third look, because at
first I was more interested in the boat. I believe all the photos in
that collection are from the CN archives; we're lucky they didn't choose
to retouch the car and give it CN reporting marks.

Too bad there are no photos of the idlers, which look like CN 40-foot
flats, so we could see what smaller boat parts were shipped along with
it. Unfortunately, this load is probably too unique and unforgettable to
model, unless it only was operated every 50th session or so. And it
probably was not ever, or at least not very often, repeated on the
prototype.

Walt Lankenau


FWIW the second photo clearly shows that one of the companion flat cars
is a CN 659546 and the third photo almost shows the entire group of
three flat cars necessary to transport this most interesting load. The
caption could be revised to state "Canadian National Railways flat car
carrying boat parts". ;-)

Bob Witt
Indianapolis, Indiana


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

I understood, Walt, that the caption wasn't yours. It's interesting, though, to find a Santa Fe flat being used for an internal Canadian movement. - Andy


Tim O'Connor
 

The Santa Fe Ft-T had a 60' deck length and 70 ton capacity,
and those may be the reasons that particular flat car was
grabbed for the job.

Tim O'Connor


Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

That is a very interesting set of photos, interesting on multiple levels, not the least of which is the noted ATSF flat.

Placing a wood boat like this on its side (as depicted) places a huge strain on a hull the framing of which was never designed to withstand weight bearing of this type, from this direction, nor for this length of time. In this regard it is safe to say that if you could peek into the interior of this hull you would likely have seen a forest of temporary internal bracing intending to relieve the resulting stresses. The appearance of the deck indicates to me that the superstructure (*cabin, pilot house, etc.) have been removed, and it would be interesting to note whether or not they were accompanied on other flats.

I would presume that the North Bay destination refers to North Bay, ONT on giant Lake Nipissing northeast of Georgian Bay. At least until recent years (and perhaps even now), communities on the far side of the lake on the French River seemed to largely depend on water transport from North Bay, at least one logical reason for shipping inland a boat of this size.

North Bay, Lake Nipissing, and the French River are best known in history as being on the route of the Voyageurs, transporting the furs of the Mountain Men by canoe from the head of Lake Superior on to Montreal.

Denny


Bruce Smith
 

On Mar 4, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Denny Anspach wrote:

That is a very interesting set of photos, interesting on multiple
levels, not the least of which is the noted ATSF flat.

Placing a wood boat like this on its side (as depicted) places a
huge strain on a hull the framing of which was never designed to
withstand weight bearing of this type, from this direction, nor for
this length of time. In this regard it is safe to say that if you
could peek into the interior of this hull you would likely have seen a
forest of temporary internal bracing intending to relieve the
resulting stresses.
Denny,

I'm not sure additional internal bracing would have been needed. Many boats of wooden construction were rolled on their sides for repairs when beached on soft bottoms by the simple expedient of winching their masts down to a position nearly parallel with the ground. The boat depicted likely was built with a strong internal framework... I think it more likely that this is a working vessel and not a pleasure yatch, based on its overall design, and that would also support the used of a strong structure.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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brianehni <behni@...>
 

It would also make sense if the load originated in ATSF territory, but we don't know that, either.

Brian Ehni

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


The Santa Fe Ft-T had a 60' deck length and 70 ton capacity,
and those may be the reasons that particular flat car was
grabbed for the job.

Tim O'Connor


Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hi Brian,

In fact, we know the load did not originate on the ATSF, if the caption can be believed. It says the boat is being moved from Quebec to North Bay.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


brianehni <behni@...>
 

Doesn't look like this went the first time; apologies if this duplicates!

It would also make sense if the load originated in ATSF territory, but we don't know that, either.

Brian Ehni

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


The Santa Fe Ft-T had a 60' deck length and 70 ton capacity,
and those may be the reasons that particular flat car was
grabbed for the job.

Tim O'Connor


Andy Carlson
 

And, of course, how would the 2 Canadian idler flats happen to serendipitously arrive in Texas?
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





________________________________
From: Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 9:49:59 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Interesting boat load


Hi Brian,

In fact, we know the load did not originate on the ATSF, if the caption can be believed. It says the boat is being moved from Quebec to North Bay.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag. com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Bob Hainstock
 

Interchange rules do allow for a one time loading of a foreign road car to be loaded on another railroad, provided that the car(s) are being loaded and sent in the general direction of their "home" road.

It is also possible that these cars were assigned to some type of a pool service and assigned to the shipper of the boat..

In either case this move is perfectly legal and possible.

Bob Hainstock

--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:

And, of course, how would the 2 Canadian idler flats happen to serendipitously arrive in Texas?
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





________________________________
From: Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 9:49:59 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Interesting boat load


Hi Brian,

In fact, we know the load did not originate on the ATSF, if the caption can be believed. It says the boat is being moved from Quebec to North Bay.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag. com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tim O'Connor
 

Bob

That's an interesting interpretation of "general direction"
of the Santa Fe... I suppose a shipper in St Louis could ship
a Santa Fe car to Baton Rouge LA since the latter is closer
to a Santa Fe interchange than the former. Of course there
are so many examples of cars sent in the opposite direction
of their home roads, or loaded many many times off line and
never reaching home rails, that I tend to think the "rules"
were observed in general only if there wasn't an obvious and
immediate use for the empty car... And if that car had roller
bearings, forget it! It could leave home rails and be gone
for years...

Tim O'Connor

At 3/4/2009 03:38 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Interchange rules do allow for a one time loading of a foreign road car to be loaded on another railroad, provided that the car(s) are being loaded and sent in the general direction of their "home" road.

It is also possible that these cars were assigned to some type of a pool service and assigned to the shipper of the boat..

In either case this move is perfectly legal and possible.

Bob Hainstock


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bob Hainstock wrote:
Interchange rules do allow for a one time loading of a foreign road car to be loaded on another railroad, provided that the car(s) are being loaded and sent in the general direction of their "home" road.
This is quite true, Bob, but we know from the testimony of numerous employees that those rules were only followed when convenient. And data on movement of particular free-running cars like box cars confirm that the rule was violated in practice more often than it was obeyed. That's not a criticism of knowing the rule, just an observation about how informative it is in general.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

North Bay is west from Quebec.

CJ Riley

--- On Wed, 3/4/09, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wroteBob



That's an interesting interpretation of "general direction"

of the Santa Fe... I suppose a shipper in St Louis could ship

a Santa Fe car to Baton Rouge LA since the latter is closer

to a Santa Fe interchange than the former. Of course there

are so many examples of cars sent in the opposite direction

of their home roads, or loaded many many times off line and

never reaching home rails, that I tend to think the "rules"

were observed in general only if there wasn't an obvious and

immediate use for the empty car... And if that car had roller

bearings, forget it! It could leave home rails and be gone

for years...



Tim O'Connor