Lackawanna 50 ft. boxcar questions


bnpmodeler
 

Greetings group;

I have searched the archives for a possible answer, but have come up short-handed, so I am firing away here.

I am working on detailing and weathering some of the really nice Branchline kits that represent the DL&W, 12000 - 12099 series, 50' welded AAR boxcars with the billboard 'Lackawanna' scheme. As part of this detailing program I would like to utilize photo-etched running boards and brake steps.

My DL&W diagram book is only good until 5/1/52, and these cars were built in September, 1956, so I don't have a DL&W diagram sheet for them. Can any of you confirm the type of running board, brake step and brake wheel these cars had? The E-L diagram sheet (#7-7) indicates an Ajax brake wheel, but no running board option; I assume the Ajax brake wheel was original equipment.

I would also really like to re-number one into the 'D-F' scheme (numbers 12074 - 12099); any idea where the appropriate 'D-F' lettering may be found? Also cool to have would be the little loading strap anchor symbols - the circle with a vertical line: (I) .

The models come with a silver 'galvanized' roof; would it be appropriate to paint the ribs with black or freight car color to show a flaked paint effect?

I realize these are probably pushing the limits of the STMFC era, but would appreciate any guidance you can provide. Many thanks in advance;

Jim Harr


MDelvec952
 

In a message dated 04/05/09 19:21:23 Eastern Daylight Time, bnchmark@embarqmail.com writes:
My DL&W diagram book is only good until 5/1/52, and these cars were built in September, 1956, so I don't have a DL&W diagram sheet for them. Can any of you confirm the type of running board, brake step and brake wheel these cars had? The E-L diagram sheet (#7-7) indicates an Ajax brake wheel, but no running board option; I assume the Ajax brake wheel was original equipment.
-------------------

The DL&W general arrangement drawings for this batch call for Morton running boards and brake steps, Ajax hand brake, A-3 Ride Control trucks and welded sides.

I missed that Branchline was offering these, so I'm looking forward to seeing one, though they're too new for my goals, post steam-era.

Hope this helps ....Mike Del Vecchio


Tim O'Connor
 

Jim

There is a photo of DL&W 12098 in the 1961 Car Builder's (p.76)

Unfortunately I can't make out the rb, step, or even the brake
wheel, although the shape of the handbrake housing is consistent
with an Ajax brake wheel.

Was the DF logo white, or yellow? That style of DF logo looks
familiar (EL perhaps?) but I can't recall any decal set that
includes it. There is no lading strap anchor symbol on 12098
but there is another symbol -- a thick white bar with center
circle (load divider perhaps?). It's just below the DF. Also
the car is marked XME.

Here's something -- the retainer valve is painted silver or
light gray!

From what can be seen of the roof, the seam caps are body
color. Could be overspray. It was not unusual for brand new
roofs to have shiny panels with dark, enameled seam caps.

If you find out any more facts let us know. I have the same
kit and I need the same information!

Tim

I am working on detailing and weathering some of the really nice Branchline kits that represent the DL&W, 12000 - 12099 series, 50' welded AAR boxcars with the billboard 'Lackawanna' scheme. As part of this detailing program I would like to utilize photo-etched running boards and brake steps.

My DL&W diagram book is only good until 5/1/52, and these cars were built in September, 1956, so I don't have a DL&W diagram sheet for them. Can any of you confirm the type of running board, brake step and brake wheel these cars had? The E-L diagram sheet (#7-7) indicates an Ajax brake wheel, but no running board option; I assume the Ajax brake wheel was original equipment.

I would also really like to re-number one into the 'D-F' scheme (numbers 12074 - 12099); any idea where the appropriate 'D-F' lettering may be found? Also cool to have would be the little loading strap anchor symbols - the circle with a vertical line: (I) .

The models come with a silver 'galvanized' roof; would it be appropriate to paint the ribs with black or freight car color to show a flaked paint effect?

I realize these are probably pushing the limits of the STMFC era, but would appreciate any guidance you can provide. Many thanks in advance;

Jim Harr


Schuyler Larrabee
 

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw12098alb.jpg
That photo suggests to me the DF is white.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw12040alb.jpg
This one suggests to me the seam caps are rusting.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw12051lba.jpg

In the builder's photo (the first one, of course) the roof looks like it's painted, but in these
later shots, most if not all the paint's come off the roof panels. Personally, I think the roof
panels were never painted but the seam caps may have been, as they (barely) show in the builder's
photo as dark.

And Jim, you simply must have looked at Larry DeYoung and Mike Del Vecchio's book "Color Guide to
ERIE and DL&W Equipment" right? The first shot of these cars in that book, shows JUST enough of the
running board to make me think that it could be a Morton roof walk, with circular holes. But I too
would like more substantive proof before I did that.

SGL (wondering if I will get this back via the list or not . . .)

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor

Jim

There is a photo of DL&W 12098 in the 1961 Car Builder's (p.76)

Unfortunately I can't make out the rb, step, or even the brake
wheel, although the shape of the handbrake housing is consistent
with an Ajax brake wheel.

Was the DF logo white, or yellow? That style of DF logo looks
familiar (EL perhaps?) but I can't recall any decal set that
includes it. There is no lading strap anchor symbol on 12098
but there is another symbol -- a thick white bar with center
circle (load divider perhaps?). It's just below the DF. Also
the car is marked XME.

Here's something -- the retainer valve is painted silver or
light gray!

From what can be seen of the roof, the seam caps are body
color. Could be overspray. It was not unusual for brand new
roofs to have shiny panels with dark, enameled seam caps.

If you find out any more facts let us know. I have the same
kit and I need the same information!

Tim

I am working on detailing and weathering some of the really nice Branchline kits that represent
the DL&W, 12000 -
12099 series, 50' welded AAR boxcars with the billboard 'Lackawanna' scheme. As part of this
detailing program I
would like to utilize photo-etched running boards and brake steps.

My DL&W diagram book is only good until 5/1/52, and these cars were built in September, 1956, so
I don't have a
DL&W diagram sheet for them. Can any of you confirm the type of running board, brake step and
brake wheel these
cars had? The E-L diagram sheet (#7-7) indicates an Ajax brake wheel, but no running board option;
I assume the Ajax
brake wheel was original equipment.

I would also really like to re-number one into the 'D-F' scheme (numbers 12074 - 12099); any idea
where the
appropriate 'D-F' lettering may be found? Also cool to have would be the little loading strap
anchor symbols - the circle
with a vertical line: (I) .

The models come with a silver 'galvanized' roof; would it be appropriate to paint the ribs with
black or freight car color
to show a flaked paint effect?

I realize these are probably pushing the limits of the STMFC era, but would appreciate any
guidance you can provide.
Many thanks in advance;

Jim Harr







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bnpmodeler
 

Mike -

Thanks so much! This proves my first great hope, that these did indeed have Morton RB's; Having the round hole 'texture' will make these even more visually arresting! Also, thanks for the confirmation of truck style...

Jim Harr

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, MDelvec952 <MDelvec952@...> wrote:





In a message dated 04/05/09 19:21:23 Eastern Daylight Time, bnchmark@... writes:
My DL&W diagram book is only good until 5/1/52, and these cars were built in September, 1956, so I don't have a DL&W diagram sheet for them. Can any of you confirm the type of running board, brake step and brake wheel these cars had? The E-L diagram sheet (#7-7) indicates an Ajax brake wheel, but no running board option; I assume the Ajax brake wheel was original equipment.
-------------------

The DL&W general arrangement drawings for this batch call for Morton running boards and brake steps, Ajax hand brake, A-3 Ride Control trucks and welded sides.

I missed that Branchline was offering these, so I'm looking forward to seeing one, though they're too new for my goals, post steam-era.

Hope this helps ....Mike Del Vecchio


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Schuyler Larrabee
 

Does that kit have welded sides??

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bnpmodeler
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 12:27 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Lackawanna 50 ft. boxcar questions

Mike -

Thanks so much! This proves my first great hope, that these did indeed have Morton RB's; Having
the round hole
'texture' will make these even more visually arresting! Also, thanks for the confirmation of truck
style...

Jim Harr

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , MDelvec952 <MDelvec952@...> wrote:





In a message dated 04/05/09 19:21:23 Eastern Daylight Time, bnchmark@... writes:
My DL&W diagram book is only good until 5/1/52, and these cars were built in September, 1956, so
I don't have a
DL&W diagram sheet for them. Can any of you confirm the type of running board, brake step and
brake wheel these
cars had? The E-L diagram sheet (#7-7) indicates an Ajax brake wheel, but no running board option;
I assume the Ajax
brake wheel was original equipment.
-------------------

The DL&W general arrangement drawings for this batch call for Morton running boards and brake
steps, Ajax hand
brake, A-3 Ride Control trucks and welded sides.

I missed that Branchline was offering these, so I'm looking forward to seeing one, though
they're too new for my
goals, post steam-era.

Hope this helps ....Mike Del Vecchio










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bnpmodeler
 

Tim -

Thanks so much for the info. I don't have the '61 CBC, unfortunately.

I think that the 'D-F' is white; and the load restraining symbol is different (can someone define these? I can try to post a scan of each type; it would seem that the early, non-D-F series had one style, and the D-F series had another). I have searched all of the EL, DL&W and Erie decal sets I know of to find that 'D-F' symbol but have struck out... :(

Yes, I believe the 12000 - 12073 were classed XM, and the D-F version (12074 - 12099) were classed XME.

The plot thickens!

Jim Harr

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Jim

There is a photo of DL&W 12098 in the 1961 Car Builder's (p.76)

Unfortunately I can't make out the rb, step, or even the brake
wheel, although the shape of the handbrake housing is consistent
with an Ajax brake wheel.

Was the DF logo white, or yellow? That style of DF logo looks
familiar (EL perhaps?) but I can't recall any decal set that
includes it. There is no lading strap anchor symbol on 12098
but there is another symbol -- a thick white bar with center
circle (load divider perhaps?). It's just below the DF. Also
the car is marked XME.

Here's something -- the retainer valve is painted silver or
light gray!

From what can be seen of the roof, the seam caps are body
color. Could be overspray. It was not unusual for brand new
roofs to have shiny panels with dark, enameled seam caps.

If you find out any more facts let us know. I have the same
kit and I need the same information!

Tim



I am working on detailing and weathering some of the really nice Branchline kits that represent the DL&W, 12000 - 12099 series, 50' welded AAR boxcars with the billboard 'Lackawanna' scheme. As part of this detailing program I would like to utilize photo-etched running boards and brake steps.

My DL&W diagram book is only good until 5/1/52, and these cars were built in September, 1956, so I don't have a DL&W diagram sheet for them. Can any of you confirm the type of running board, brake step and brake wheel these cars had? The E-L diagram sheet (#7-7) indicates an Ajax brake wheel, but no running board option; I assume the Ajax brake wheel was original equipment.

I would also really like to re-number one into the 'D-F' scheme (numbers 12074 - 12099); any idea where the appropriate 'D-F' lettering may be found? Also cool to have would be the little loading strap anchor symbols - the circle with a vertical line: (I) .

The models come with a silver 'galvanized' roof; would it be appropriate to paint the ribs with black or freight car color to show a flaked paint effect?

I realize these are probably pushing the limits of the STMFC era, but would appreciate any guidance you can provide. Many thanks in advance;

Jim Harr


bnpmodeler
 

Yes. And the panel count seems to match photos too... Very nicely done models.

Some very minor body modifications to make it an accurate represntation - mostly carving another 'slot' in the sill, with the deeper cross-bearer tab. Other than that, build it, add the correct RB, and voila.

Jim Harr

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

Does that kit have welded sides??

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bnpmodeler
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 12:27 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Lackawanna 50 ft. boxcar questions

Mike -

Thanks so much! This proves my first great hope, that these did indeed have Morton RB's; Having
the round hole
'texture' will make these even more visually arresting! Also, thanks for the confirmation of truck
style...

Jim Harr

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , MDelvec952 <MDelvec952@> wrote:





In a message dated 04/05/09 19:21:23 Eastern Daylight Time, bnchmark@ writes:
My DL&W diagram book is only good until 5/1/52, and these cars were built in September, 1956, so
I don't have a
DL&W diagram sheet for them. Can any of you confirm the type of running board, brake step and
brake wheel these
cars had? The E-L diagram sheet (#7-7) indicates an Ajax brake wheel, but no running board option;
I assume the Ajax
brake wheel was original equipment.
-------------------

The DL&W general arrangement drawings for this batch call for Morton running boards and brake
steps, Ajax hand
brake, A-3 Ride Control trucks and welded sides.

I missed that Branchline was offering these, so I'm looking forward to seeing one, though
they're too new for my
goals, post steam-era.

Hope this helps ....Mike Del Vecchio


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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bnpmodeler
 

You know, I could swear that I looked high and low through George's site... Maybe a brain freeze momenmt? Thanks for the links, Schuyler!

I concur, I think the 'D-F' logo is indeed white. Still searching for a source in HO.

And Yes, Schuyler, of course I looked in the color guide! but alas, I found that to be inconclusive. But tempting nonetheless, and I agree with you; I am now convinced that these had Morton 'Open-Grip' RB's.

You are receiving, I believe?

Jim Harr

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw12098alb.jpg
That photo suggests to me the DF is white.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw12040alb.jpg
This one suggests to me the seam caps are rusting.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw12051lba.jpg

In the builder's photo (the first one, of course) the roof looks like it's painted, but in these
later shots, most if not all the paint's come off the roof panels. Personally, I think the roof
panels were never painted but the seam caps may have been, as they (barely) show in the builder's
photo as dark.

And Jim, you simply must have looked at Larry DeYoung and Mike Del Vecchio's book "Color Guide to
ERIE and DL&W Equipment" right? The first shot of these cars in that book, shows JUST enough of the
running board to make me think that it could be a Morton roof walk, with circular holes. But I too
would like more substantive proof before I did that.

SGL (wondering if I will get this back via the list or not . . .)

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor

Jim

There is a photo of DL&W 12098 in the 1961 Car Builder's (p.76)

Unfortunately I can't make out the rb, step, or even the brake
wheel, although the shape of the handbrake housing is consistent
with an Ajax brake wheel.

Was the DF logo white, or yellow? That style of DF logo looks
familiar (EL perhaps?) but I can't recall any decal set that
includes it. There is no lading strap anchor symbol on 12098
but there is another symbol -- a thick white bar with center
circle (load divider perhaps?). It's just below the DF. Also
the car is marked XME.

Here's something -- the retainer valve is painted silver or
light gray!

From what can be seen of the roof, the seam caps are body
color. Could be overspray. It was not unusual for brand new
roofs to have shiny panels with dark, enameled seam caps.

If you find out any more facts let us know. I have the same
kit and I need the same information!

Tim

I am working on detailing and weathering some of the really nice Branchline kits that represent
the DL&W, 12000 -
12099 series, 50' welded AAR boxcars with the billboard 'Lackawanna' scheme. As part of this
detailing program I
would like to utilize photo-etched running boards and brake steps.

My DL&W diagram book is only good until 5/1/52, and these cars were built in September, 1956, so
I don't have a
DL&W diagram sheet for them. Can any of you confirm the type of running board, brake step and
brake wheel these
cars had? The E-L diagram sheet (#7-7) indicates an Ajax brake wheel, but no running board option;
I assume the Ajax
brake wheel was original equipment.

I would also really like to re-number one into the 'D-F' scheme (numbers 12074 - 12099); any idea
where the
appropriate 'D-F' lettering may be found? Also cool to have would be the little loading strap
anchor symbols - the circle
with a vertical line: (I) .

The models come with a silver 'galvanized' roof; would it be appropriate to paint the ribs with
black or freight car color
to show a flaked paint effect?

I realize these are probably pushing the limits of the STMFC era, but would appreciate any
guidance you can provide.
Many thanks in advance;

Jim Harr







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bnpmodeler
 

Oh, I forgot - add towing staples on the right hand of each side...

Jim Harr


Some very minor body modifications to make it an accurate represntation - mostly carving another 'slot' in the sill, with the deeper cross-bearer tab. Other than that, build it, add the correct RB, and voila.