FGEX /WFEX/BREX cars - CABBAGE SHIPPING


water.kresse@...
 

Bill,



A recent N&W list noted that they shipped iced cabbage in reefers southbound from Virginia.



Would you ice cabbage like water mellon directly and just close up the car.  Would they also use insulated ventilator boxes for cabbage shipping?



Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "lnbill" <bwelch@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:32:15 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGEX /WFEX/BREX cars

I have photos of various FGE/WFE/WFE/NX cars stenciled "Two Stage Icing" while some are stenciled "Three Stage Icing."

I hope to post to the list today a message responding to the initial question about steel cars owned by "Our Companies" as well as a couple of tables that will hopefully clarify what is a complex fleet.

I cannot seem to find either a paper or electronic copy of the handout I used at Cocoa Brach and Naperville but if someone would like to create a PDF from thier copy and post it on our list, they have my permission. I would caution that it is not completely up to date, but will work for guiding modelers. I would like to preserve whatever copyright restrictions I have can preserve.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@...> wrote:

Despite Tony's error regarding the reporting marks, he is correct about the
cars having "half-stage icing" while you are also correct about the
stenciling.  ORER Note A on these cars says: "Cars in this series are
equipped with ice grates adjustable for stage icing.  When in position
capacity of ice bunkers is one-half full capacity . . ."  Apparently "Our
Companies" did not use the term "half-stage icing" but others - based upon
their ORER note wording - did.  Ex. MDT, ART, NRL, NACC, PFE, URTL, and
ATSF.  NCC had cars with two partial capacities in addition to full.

KL


----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor

I have an excellent builder shot of WHIX 70290 --

ELECTRIC
AIR CIRCULATING FANS
STAGE ICING
SIDE WALL FLUES

A builder photo of WHIX 70000 omits the "ELECTRIC" stencil.
No mention of half stage anything. I have no clear photos
of the small lettering on FHIX cars.


lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

There is a beautiful photo I am planning to order soon from the Library of Congress somewhere on the N&W of farmers loading cabbage from their farm wagons into FGE cars. I believe that cabbage was not top iced but rather depended on the ice in the end bunkers to keep it viable. I will look when I get a chance at the information I have from the USDA Archives to see if I have infomration on this crop. I have managed to find infomration like this for the book I am researching and have actually begun writing.

I don't know if they would have shipped cabbage in Ventilated Boxcars, but if the weather was right, they may have shipped it in reefers under ventilation. I am not sure what the temperature requirments were for cabbage.

Bill Welch

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:



Bill,



A recent N&W list noted that they shipped iced cabbage in reefers southbound from Virginia.



Would you ice cabbage like water mellon directly and just close up the car.  Would they also use insulated ventilator boxes for cabbage shipping?



Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "lnbill" <bwelch@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:32:15 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGEX /WFEX/BREX cars

I have photos of various FGE/WFE/WFE/NX cars stenciled "Two Stage Icing" while some are stenciled "Three Stage Icing."

I hope to post to the list today a message responding to the initial question about steel cars owned by "Our Companies" as well as a couple of tables that will hopefully clarify what is a complex fleet.

I cannot seem to find either a paper or electronic copy of the handout I used at Cocoa Brach and Naperville but if someone would like to create a PDF from thier copy and post it on our list, they have my permission. I would caution that it is not completely up to date, but will work for guiding modelers. I would like to preserve whatever copyright restrictions I have can preserve.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@> wrote:

Despite Tony's error regarding the reporting marks, he is correct about the
cars having "half-stage icing" while you are also correct about the
stenciling.  ORER Note A on these cars says: "Cars in this series are
equipped with ice grates adjustable for stage icing.  When in position
capacity of ice bunkers is one-half full capacity . . ."  Apparently "Our
Companies" did not use the term "half-stage icing" but others - based upon
their ORER note wording - did.  Ex. MDT, ART, NRL, NACC, PFE, URTL, and
ATSF.  NCC had cars with two partial capacities in addition to full.

KL


----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor

I have an excellent builder shot of WHIX 70290 --

ELECTRIC
AIR CIRCULATING FANS
STAGE ICING
SIDE WALL FLUES

A builder photo of WHIX 70000 omits the "ELECTRIC" stencil.
No mention of half stage anything. I have no clear photos
of the small lettering on FHIX cars.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


wohrnell@...
 

Bill Welch,

If you can find a copy of the National Perishable Protective Tariff 18 it would/should have the temperatures in which the vents were manipulated for cabbage.

Potatoes had the vents opened at 33 and closed at 32 degrees. Heater service was mandatory IIRC between November 15th and March 15th.

I would receive approximately 900 CL's of bulk potatoes in a eight month period and never had a load in an insulated car.

Lenny Ohrnell


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Al Kresse wrote:
A recent N&W list noted that they shipped iced cabbage in reefers southbound from Virginia.
Would you ice cabbage like water mellon directly and just close up the car. Would they also use insulated ventilator boxes for cabbage shipping?
Leafy vegetables like lettuce and cabbage, shipped as heads, were normally top iced, although that decision was up to the shipper. Desired transit temperature for cabbage (as tabulated in the USDA data in the PFE book) was 32 degrees.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


water.kresse@...
 

Bill,



Kodo's first for kicking off your writing-phase of the book!



As I mentioned before, I'm wondering why the C&O purchased both Ventilated 36-ft box cars and Reefers in 1923 or so.  They quickly sold off, or swaped their reefers for stock, 45-48 of their 50 36-ft refrig cars to FGE I believe in the 1930s . . . at about the same time they let FGEX take over their re-icing platforms also and used the remainder for milk service.



I'm guessing supporting branch line stores, or branchline to local big cities keep the remaining ventilator boxes in business.  They quickly converted their newer 40-ft "semi-insulated" vent boxes back to reg boxes.



I plan on doing a Peru, Indiana, C&O-then-FGEX re-icing platforms article.  They built the "new" FGEX specifications platform in late-40s it appears.   The pix are from 1957, the serious start of the mechanically FGEX refrigerated cars.



Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "lnbill" <bwelch@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:20:29 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGEX /WFEX/BREX cars - CABBAGE SHIPPING

There is a beautiful photo I am planning to order soon from the Library of Congress somewhere on the N&W of farmers loading cabbage from their farm wagons into FGE cars. I believe that cabbage was not top iced but rather depended on the ice in the end bunkers to keep it viable. I will look when I get a chance at the information I have from the USDA Archives to see if I have infomration on this crop. I have managed to find infomration like this for the book I am researching and have actually begun writing.

I don't know if they would have shipped cabbage in Ventilated Boxcars, but if the weather was right, they may have shipped it in reefers under ventilation. I am not sure what the temperature requirments were for cabbage.

Bill Welch

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:



Bill,



A recent N&W list noted that they shipped iced cabbage in reefers southbound from Virginia.



Would you ice cabbage like water mellon directly and just close up the car.  Would they also use insulated ventilator boxes for cabbage shipping?



Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "lnbill" <bwelch@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:32:15 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGEX /WFEX/BREX cars

I have photos of various FGE/WFE/WFE/NX cars stenciled "Two Stage Icing" while some are stenciled "Three Stage Icing."

I hope to post to the list today a message responding to the initial question about steel cars owned by "Our Companies" as well as a couple of tables that will hopefully clarify what is a complex fleet.

I cannot seem to find either a paper or electronic copy of the handout I used at Cocoa Brach and Naperville but if someone would like to create a PDF from thier copy and post it on our list, they have my permission. I would caution that it is not completely up to date, but will work for guiding modelers. I would like to preserve whatever copyright restrictions I have can preserve.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@> wrote:

Despite Tony's error regarding the reporting marks, he is correct about the
cars having "half-stage icing" while you are also correct about the
stenciling.  ORER Note A on these cars says: "Cars in this series are
equipped with ice grates adjustable for stage icing.  When in position
capacity of ice bunkers is one-half full capacity . . ."  Apparently "Our
Companies" did not use the term "half-stage icing" but others - based upon
their ORER note wording - did.  Ex. MDT, ART, NRL, NACC, PFE, URTL, and
ATSF.  NCC had cars with two partial capacities in addition to full.

KL


----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor

I have an excellent builder shot of WHIX 70290 --

ELECTRIC
AIR CIRCULATING FANS
STAGE ICING
SIDE WALL FLUES

A builder photo of WHIX 70000 omits the "ELECTRIC" stencil.
No mention of half stage anything. I have no clear photos
of the small lettering on FHIX cars.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Lenny Ohrnell wrote:
If you can find a copy of the National Perishable Protective Tariff 18 it would/should have the temperatures in which the vents were manipulated for cabbage.
This would of course be true of other issues of the NPPT. These data are also available in USDA documents and other sources which don't require obtaining a 600-page (or thereabouts) tariff.

I would receive approximately 900 CL's of bulk potatoes in a eight month period and never had a load in an insulated car.
What were they shipped in? Reefers were insulated. Did they come in box cars?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

Al I interviewed a fellow once whose family raised cabbages in eastern Iowa for the Army during WWII. He reported the cabbages
were loaded into burlap gunny sacks and sewn shut in the field, then the sacks were loaded into the reefers sitting along side the
fields. I can only assume the cars were pre-cooled. The load may have been topped iced later, I don't know and he passed away over
ten years ago. He told me the story because the Army was very particular in how they wanted the sacks sewn shut, and their crew
had to learn the Army way.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


wohrnell@...
 

Tony,

They came in WFBX & WFB (RSB) refrigerator cars from the Red River Valley in ND. The spuds were unloaded, washed, graded, bagged and shipped out in RS and RSM refrigerator cars.

Lenny