Confused by RMC review of Accurail plug+sliding door box car


Scott Pitzer
 

The review in the May 2009 issue starts by saying 40' box cars of this configuration were built between 1947 and 1964; then it states the first such cars were built by the GN shops in October 1953.
Among the initial roadname offerings is "Union Pacific (mineral red, lettered in yellow as built in 1947)."
So when WERE cars of this type first built?
BTW the Accurail ad on page 16 of that issue shows a UP car with the "Be Specific..." slogan, which was not in use in 1947.

Scott Pitzer


Tim O'Connor
 

Scott, very few railroads bought such cars -- CB&Q, CP, GN, MILW,
NP, PGE, RI, SOO, UP. This particular model represents a Soo Line
car built in 1959. They definitely were first built in the 1950's,
mostly in the later 1950's. As far as I know the only one built
after 1960 was for PGE (Pacific Great Eastern), and you'd never
confuse it with this model.

Tim O'Connor

The review in the May 2009 issue starts by saying 40' box cars of this configuration were built between 1947 and 1964; then it states the first such cars were built by the GN shops in October 1953.
Among the initial roadname offerings is "Union Pacific (mineral red, lettered in yellow as built in 1947)."
So when WERE cars of this type first built?
BTW the Accurail ad on page 16 of that issue shows a UP car with the "Be Specific..." slogan, which was not in use in 1947.

Scott Pitzer


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Scott Pitzer" <scottp459@...> wrote:

The review in the May 2009 issue starts by saying 40' box cars of this configuration were built between 1947 and 1964; then it states the first such cars were built by the GN shops in October 1953.
Among the initial roadname offerings is "Union Pacific (mineral red, lettered in yellow as built in 1947)."
So when WERE cars of this type first built?
BTW the Accurail ad on page 16 of that issue shows a UP car with the "Be Specific..." slogan, which was not in use in 1947.

Scott Pitzer

That's because our webmaster picked up the "Built 1947" from the builder's badge stencil on the car. However, these are rebuildings of older cars. Our lettering scheme is based on a photo of a BC-50-8, I see a magazine tear sheet here in the file of a BC-50-10 and the caption states that it is one of 500 cars rebuilt from the 100,000 series in 1963. These were PS-1's built in 1948 as B-50-40. The cars built in 1947 were B-50-39, and had Dreadnaught ends. Unfortunately, since Metcalf's book doesn't document changes after 1951, I don't have a firm rebuild date, but it's likely early sixties, just eary enough to be painted in the "Be Specific" scheme.

Dennis


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Scott, very few railroads bought such cars -- CB&Q, CP, GN, MILW,
NP, PGE, RI, SOO, UP. This particular model represents a Soo Line
car built in 1959. They definitely were first built in the 1950's,
mostly in the later 1950's. As far as I know the only one built
after 1960 was for PGE (Pacific Great Eastern), and you'd never
confuse it with this model.

Tim O'Connor
I have a scan of a picture in the files, looks like from the CBC from the style of the caption, of a Union Pacific BC-50-11 that shows a built date of 11-64. It has dreadnaught ends, but we won't be doing it unless I can get the them painted and assembled in China. The 'Automated Railway' sheme with the silver roof, ends, and frame is expensive to mask.

The MILW, GN, and NP all built similar cars in 1958, Soo in 1959, NP again in 1960. The general adoption of covered hoppers for grain loading in the sixties eliminated these cars reason for being, which was to provide a wide door opening on a car that could still be coopered with standard grain doors for grain loading, and no more were built.

Dennis


Tim O'Connor
 

Dennis,

As far as I can tell all of the BC-50-10's received the new
Automated Rail Way scheme with the large full color shield.
UP stopped using yellow lettering in 1961 or early 1962. The
BC-50-11's and -12's received yellow paint because they also
received cushioning and that was the standard for cushioned
cars from that time.

Tim O'Connor

That's because our webmaster picked up the "Built 1947" from the builder's badge stencil on the car. However, these are rebuildings of older cars. Our lettering scheme is based on a photo of a BC-50-8, I see a magazine tear sheet here in the file of a BC-50-10 and the caption states that it is one of 500 cars rebuilt from the 100,000 series in 1963. These were PS-1's built in 1948 as B-50-40. The cars built in 1947 were B-50-39, and had Dreadnaught ends. Unfortunately, since Metcalf's book doesn't document changes after 1951, I don't have a firm rebuild date, but it's likely early sixties, just eary enough to be painted in the "Be Specific" scheme.
Dennis


Tim O'Connor
 

Grain had something to do with it, but also this was the
time when railroads stopped buying 40 foot cars and opted
for 50 foot cars instead. Many railroads bought combination
door 50 foot cars from the 1950's through the 1980's. Many
were later converted into double sliding door cars, but that
is an issue for BBFCL... :-)

Tim O'Connor

The MILW, GN, and NP all built similar cars in 1958, Soo in 1959, NP again in 1960. The general adoption of covered hoppers for grain loading in the sixties eliminated these cars reason for being, which was to provide a wide door opening on a car that could still be coopered with standard grain doors for grain loading, and no more were built.
Dennis


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Dennis,

As far as I can tell all of the BC-50-10's received the new
Automated Rail Way scheme with the large full color shield.
UP stopped using yellow lettering in 1961 or early 1962. The
BC-50-11's and -12's received yellow paint because they also
received cushioning and that was the standard for cushioned
cars from that time.

Tim O'Connor
Yes, That's what the pix in our files show. That's why we lettered our model as a BC-50-*8*, and we have a scan of a photo showing it with the large UNION PACIFIC on two lines, with the 'Be Specific' slogan. From your dates on the paint scheme change, it would appear these were rebuilt sometime prior to 1961 or '62. Re-weigh date on the photo is no help, as the car has a new 1965 date over a paint patch.

I have to admit, a NEW 4-47 weight date made it onto the model, it's a victim of our policy of putting the oldest applicable weigh date on models so they will be most useful to the most modelers. I don't think the graphics guy realized these cars were rebuilt, until this morning I didn't either.

Now that we've tied these cars to the B-50-39 cass, I see that these cars did not have "ZU" eave construction, same as our model. So these, and the SOO car, are actually the most correct.

Dennis


Tim O'Connor
 

Dennis

The large UNION PACIFIC gothic lettering began in 1956.

The BC-50-8's received new roofs, ZU eave, diagonal panel.
There's a fine builder photo of UP 110052 in the UPCG Vol. 1.
Also the UP cars had 12' door openings (6+6) while the Soo
cars have 14' (8+6) like the model. (The Color Guide caption
ridiculously says that the UP opening is 9'10" -- weren't we
just lambasting Morning Sun captions?)

Front Range produced a model decorated for UP as a BC-50-8,
although they wisely left off the car class, and all dates! :-)
The Front Range doors measured just over 12' wide. However,
the car has a flush roof and lacks the diagonal rivets for
the door post. (Easily corrected now with Archer rivets.)

So really, the Accurail car is best suited to represent the
Soo Line cars. Major surgery is needed for other prototypes.
And there's still those old Front Range, and McKean (PS-1),
bodies floating around...

Tim O'Connor

Yes, That's what the pix in our files show. That's why we lettered our model as a BC-50-*8*, and we have a scan of a photo showing it with the large UNION PACIFIC on two lines, with the 'Be Specific' slogan. From your dates on the paint scheme change, it would appear these were rebuilt sometime prior to 1961 or '62. Re-weigh date on the photo is no help, as the car has a new 1965 date over a paint patch.

I have to admit, a NEW 4-47 weight date made it onto the model, it's a victim of our policy of putting the oldest applicable weigh date on models so they will be most useful to the most modelers. I don't think the graphics guy realized these cars were rebuilt, until this morning I didn't either.

Now that we've tied these cars to the B-50-39 cass, I see that these cars did not have "ZU" eave construction, same as our model. So these, and the SOO car, are actually the most correct.

Dennis


leakinmywaders
 

Scott: Here are more specific dates and related information for the NP boxcar series of the 40ft plug+sliding door configuration:

NP 8000-8499 1958 NP RY Brainerd Shops
NP 3000-3339 1959-60 Pullman–Standard
NP 8450-8849 1959-60 NP RY Brainerd Shops
NP 8850-9148 1960 NP RY Brainerd Shops
NP 9150-9200 1960 NP RY Brainerd Shops

Note all of these cars had ZU (overhanging) eave roofs, unlike the Accurail model, and a different door configuration than the model (a 6ft width Youngstown sliding door paired with an 8 foot width plug door). The P-S built series and certain Brainerd-built cars in the ca. 8450-8849 range had P-S bowtie ZU eave roofs and P-S ends. All others had Improved Dreadnaught ends as the model does. The P-S built series had welded side panels, but the remaining series had riveted side panels of approximately the configuration of the model.
Regards,

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@..., "Scott Pitzer" <scottp459@...> wrote:

The review in the May 2009 issue starts by saying 40' box cars of this configuration were built between 1947 and 1964; then it states the first such cars were built by the GN shops in October 1953.
Among the initial roadname offerings is "Union Pacific (mineral red, lettered in yellow as built in 1947)."
So when WERE cars of this type first built?
BTW the Accurail ad on page 16 of that issue shows a UP car with the "Be Specific..." slogan, which was not in use in 1947.

Scott Pitzer


leakinmywaders
 

Also note, the NP cars I listed were first builds, not rebuilds.

There was one additional "mongrel" group of leased NP boxcars, series 37000-37899, that were ca. 1962 rebuilds of various early AARoid boxcars of ex-Erie and DLW heritage. These do not at all match the Accurail model (e.g., Viking or rectangular panel roofs, Buckeye or early dreadnaught ends, 10ft IH, paired 6ft sliding and 6 foot plug doors).

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@..., "leakinmywaders" <leakinmywaders@...> wrote:

Scott: Here are more specific dates and related information for the NP boxcar series of the 40ft plug+sliding door configuration:
...


leakinmywaders
 

--- In STMFC@..., "leakinmywaders" <leakinmywaders@...> wrote:
NP 8000....9200 [blt 1959+] Note all of these cars had ZU (overhanging) eave roofs, unlike the Accurail model, ***and a different door configuration than the model (a 6ft width Youngstown sliding door paired with an 8 foot width plug door)***...
***I've been thinking perhaps I should footnote this statement about door configuration because there has been some discrepancy on this matter at other web sites, and it merits clearing up. The NP cars had 8 foot plug doors of nearly identical dimension and design as those represented on the Accurail model. The 6ft Improved Youngstown sliding door on the NP cars, however was of slightly different 6/6/6 design (counting corrugation concavities per panel), while those on the model are a more conventional 5/6/6 design.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT