--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@...> wrote:

Ed-
Your post is a positive one and I am not jumping on you for your comments..... but I don't agree that "the average model railroader has a hard time assembling kits".

Whatever the reason kits are disappearing from hobby shops.

Going back to our old standbys, the blue boxes, I once recommended that a boss buy better quality equipment for his son for Christmas. His father in law, a retired farmer, managed to screw up a couple of the easy to build Athearn cars. I always thought farmers were pretty handy.

I must confess I've started more than a few kits that I've never finished for various reasons.

I haven't been in there for 6 months but the last time I was at Trainland in Lynbrook it was dead (on a Saturday afternoon no less).

I feel sorry for the small dealers who are trying to "serve the hobby". They are getting killed and have been for the last few years.
Before the economy went south when there were a lot of new items there were too many to stock and they had to decide which ones to sell. Anything which didn't sell would be on their shelves for years.

I agree with you that newly manufactured Northeastern kits seem to be out of place in today's market, but plenty of stupid things are done in business. If I was the average Joe and I wanted one of those cars I'd find someone who I had confidence in to build it, or at least advise me how to build it/loan me some tools. I'll bet men in the know can get the old Northeastern/original Ambroid kits for 1/3 the price of the new ones.

Some of the wood cars recently shown in the magazines are a step back from what was done in past.

If we want to see more kits we've got to get more guys building them.

Group;

I was pretty surprised over the last few years, hearing from small and large
manufacturers, and the buying public, as part of our "serving" both groups,
what all agree is going on in the hobby.

Plastic manufacturers seem to agree that kits are dead, and they are not
going to waste any more time thinking about it.

Resin manufacturers, on the other hand (and for the most part), seem to
continue to sell lots of kits, which all agree the overwhelming majority of
which will never get built.

A break-out discussion I also found interesting was the agreement that
perhaps 200-300 people out there are actually building those kits. I was
astonished, but the resin guys know far more people, and are far better
tapped into this network than I.

The biggest thing that surprises me now days, though, is the "sit back and
wait for someone else to do it for me" attitude that the vast majority of MR
hobbyists now display. You should have heard some of the things folks said
to me at some of the recent meets! I know numerous folks in other hobbies
that build stuff; LOTS of stuff. What I hear from our own, nowdays, is "why
can't you get XYZ to do a RTR X29B in plastic?" I would say from these
dialogues, that a lot of people in this hobby are becoming simple collectors,
not builders.

Thank goodness for the prototype modelers!

Elden Gatwood
Chair, PRRT&HS Modeling Committee

Resin manufacturers, on the other hand (and for the most part), seem to
continue to sell lots of kits, which all agree the overwhelming majority of
which will never get built.

A break-out discussion I also found interesting was the agreement that
perhaps 200-300 people out there are actually building those kits. I was
astonished, but the resin guys know far more people, and are far better
tapped into this network than I.

Elden

I think if you multiplied that number by 20 you'd still underestimate
the number of people who have built resin kits. Not everyone builds like
Bill Darnaby (wasn't he building a kit a day at one time?) but I'm quite
sure there are many who build but don't blow their horn about it...

Tim

Elden--

I model a Canadian grain-hauling line in Eastern Ontario, circa 1956. I am fortunate in having a fair bit of my STMFC requirements satisfied by either commercial RTR stuff (Kadee PS-1's come to mind) or resin kits for that Santa Fe Bx-12 raised roof, NYC USRA steel, and Lehigh Valley "wrong-way" boxcars. A Canadian distributor has brought out some nice stuff as well, such as "slab-side" CN covered hoppers and CN 40' steel 10' ih boxcars with NSC ends.

But if I were to wait for every car that I need for my pike to come out in RTR, I may as well wait for hell to freeze over. To be able to kitbash and scratchbuild where necessary is an essential skill set for a modeller in as specialised an area as I model. And I suspect that the same applies to many on this list.

I recently finished an HO Imperial Oil (Esso's Canadian division) tank car resin-bashed from a NorWest resin kit for a CN car. I'm very pleased with how it turned out, and it even won a Merit Award at a regional last month! Another is being bashed into a McColl-Frontenac tank car (Texaco's Canadian operation). The best that I'd ever do in RTR for either of these cars is a Chinese-made stand-in from Proto. So, I know that a lot of resin and kit-bashing awaits me yet. Am I having fun? Absolutely.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Resin manufacturers, on the other hand (and for the most part), seem to
continue to sell lots of kits, which all agree the overwhelming majority of
which will never get built.

A break-out discussion I also found interesting was the agreement that
perhaps 200-300 people out there are actually building those kits. I was
astonished, but the resin guys know far more people, and are far better
tapped into this network than I.

Elden

I think if you multiplied that number by 20 you'd still underestimate
the number of people who have built resin kits. Not everyone builds like
Bill Darnaby (wasn't he building a kit a day at one time?) but I'm quite
sure there are many who build but don't blow their horn about it...

Tim

I tend to agree with Tim regarding his interpretation of the
actual number of folks who do build resin kits or kit-bash.
They may not be building prolificly, but they are there.
Perhaps they tend to be a silent majority so-to-speak.

Ron

Posted by: "asychis@..." asychis@... asychis
Posted by: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD"

Plastic manufacturers seem to agree that kits are dead, and they are not
going to waste any more time thinking about it.

Maybe that's true for them. The old MDC, etc. kits weren't anything really special. Though I've built up some of the Grandt Line kits. They are special....

Resin manufacturers, on the other hand (and for the most part), seem to
continue to sell lots of kits, which all agree the overwhelming majority of
which will never get built.

Hmm, I'm weird, I've built up most of mine...

The biggest thing that surprises me now days, though, is the "sit back and
wait for someone else to do it for me" attitude that the vast majority of MR
hobbyists now display. You should have heard some of the things folks said
to me at some of the recent meets! I know numerous folks in other hobbies
that build stuff; LOTS of stuff. What I hear from our own, nowdays, is "why
can't you get XYZ to do a RTR X29B in plastic?" I would say from these
dialogues, that a lot of people in this hobby are becoming simple collectors,
not builders.

Builders might not go to meets in your area. I suspect as others have pointed out that narrow gauge and RPM attracts more builder types. If you don't have them, why not start one? Our recent On30 barn meet had over 30 people, one modular and several portable layouts along with models. All that was needed was a barn, but it did start out in the Hofbrau restaurant.

Thank goodness for the prototype modelers!

Even when I freelance I think that!

Jim

Hi All......I've seen this thread for how long now?.....What will happen, will happen, let's get over it and move on.......The discussion should be what can be done to improve RTR models....best Jim W. 






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't think that is the situation at all......
....however, the wonderful profusion of products that we have been favored with over the past decade or so does make a person consider if a project is worh starting now only to be eclipsed by a production model before or just after it is completed.

So many "no way in hell willl that ever be made" prototypes have shown up in plastic that I hesitate to bet against any model showing up on dealers shelves....
Erie Triplexes??? Two productions of UP Gas Turbines!!! UP 4-12-2s..... GTW wood cabooses.....

If your enjoyment of the Hobby is the process of building individual models it really doesn't matter. If, however, you are trying to build an operating layout that has equipment with a degree of prototype accuracy, one might be inclined to select projects that are highly unlikely to be duplicated in readily available RTR or mass production kits or cars that you really, really want.

However, many of us appreciate those that clear the way for desired models by scratchbuilding them or doing extensive kitbashes first...... you know there is a industry-sponsored organization that monitors everyone's progress on such projects and does not allow manufacturers to go into production until it is apparent that someone is going to complete a project, preferably with the same paint scheme and roadnumber and timed to arrive in the local hobby shop the day you complete it an show the model to your friends who just bought one!!!

Charlie Vlk

.... and I wouldn't ignore the RTR effect in other modeling areas.... Armour, Ships, Aircraft, and Automoblies are all enjoying increased sales of quality built-up models, probably much for the same reasons. I would discount the immediate gratification and lack of building skills aspect that may be present in other, less rich hobbies. Other than the few that can afford to have someone come in and build and operate a railroad for them our Hobby still takes a degree of planning, intellectual curiousity, and development of skills to participate in it even at the most basic levels.


.The biggest thing that surprises me now days, though, is the "sit back and
wait for someone else to do it for me" attitude that the vast majority of MR
hobbyists now display. You should have heard some of the things folks said
to me at some of the recent meets! I know numerous folks in other hobbies
that build stuff; LOTS of stuff. What I hear from our own, nowdays, is "why
can't you get XYZ to do a RTR X29B in plastic?" I would say from these
dialogues, that a lot of people in this hobby are becoming simple collectors,
not builders.