Packers Car Line


Rupert & Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

I understand that the Burlington was the camouflaged owner of the Packers Car Line, formed to provide Armour & Company with more modern reefers - PCX 4000-4399 built in 1956 by Pacific Car & Foundry.

According to the 1968 ORER, there was also PCX 4400 - 4600 of similar size. Can anyone advise when these were built and by whom?

Thanks

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ


Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

They are not in the 7/61 ORER, so built - or at least owned by PCX - after then.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Rupert & Maureen

According to the 1968 ORER, there was also PCX 4400 - 4600 of similar size. Can anyone advise when these were built and by whom?


Ed Hawkins
 

On Jun 6, 2009, at 11:07 PM, Rupert & Maureen wrote:

I understand that the Burlington was the camouflaged owner of the
Packers Car Line, formed to provide Armour & Company with more modern
reefers - PCX 4000-4399 built in 1956 by Pacific Car & Foundry.

According to the 1968 ORER, there was also PCX 4400 - 4600 of similar
size. Can anyone advise when these were built and by whom?
Rupert,
Packers Car Line had 400 cars (4000-4300) built by PC&F. A photo of PCX
4142 (available from Bob's Photo) taken 12/12/57 has NEW 8-57 stencils.
In the 1/59 and 1/62 ORERs this was the only series listed.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Ed Hawkins
 

On Jun 7, 2009, at 10:31 AM, Ed Hawkins wrote:

Rupert,
Packers Car Line had 400 cars (4000-4300) built by PC&F. A photo of
PCX
4142 (available from Bob's Photo) taken 12/12/57 has NEW 8-57
stencils.
In the 1/59 and 1/62 ORERs this was the only series listed.
Rupert,
Sorry - typing to fast and not proofreading. Series was 4000-4399.
Regards,
Ed hawkins


Tim O'Connor
 

There is a builder photo of PCX #4000 in the Burlington
Historical Society "Bulletin" #12. If I recall this car
is stenciled built in 1956.

Tim O'Connor

I understand that the Burlington was the camouflaged owner of the
Packers Car Line, formed to provide Armour & Company with more modern
reefers - PCX 4000-4399 built in 1956 by Pacific Car & Foundry.

According to the 1968 ORER, there was also PCX 4400 - 4600 of similar
size. Can anyone advise when these were built and by whom?
Rupert,
Packers Car Line had 400 cars (4000-4300) built by PC&F. A photo of PCX
4142 (available from Bob's Photo) taken 12/12/57 has NEW 8-57 stencils.
In the 1/59 and 1/62 ORERs this was the only series listed.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Ed Hawkins
 

On Jun 7, 2009, at 12:18 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

There is a builder photo of PCX #4000 in the Burlington
Historical Society "Bulletin" #12. If I recall this car
is stenciled built in 1956.
Tim and Rupert,
The caption of PCX 4000 states the cars were built in 1956 by PC&F, but
the build date of PCX 4000 can clearly be read as 6-57. According to
the 1956 list of orders in Railway Age dated 1/14/57, Packers Car Line
ordered 400 refrigerator cars in June 1956 with delivery specified as
August 1957. The PCX 4000 made it two months earlier.

The April 1957 ORER lists the 400 cars in series PCX 4000-4399 with an
asterisk denoting additions. While there were 400 cars listed in this
ORER, the number of cars in service at that time had to be a projection
since they weren't actually built for two to four months thereafter.

By the way, 3 of these PCX cars appeared in MP Train 70 on March 26,
1959, departing Kansas City destined for St. Louis. All 3 cars
originated in Kansas City with "PHP" (packing house products). Once in
St. Louis, all 3 cars proceeded to E. St. Louis on the Terminal
Railroad Association of St. Louis for eastern destinations.

PC 4377 went on the PRR and N&W with a final destination of Norfolk,
Va., PCX 4053 went on the PRR to Pittsburgh, and PCX 4073 went on the
NYC to Albany, New York.

These cars are shown in a lengthy wheel report table along with a B&W
photo of PCX 4142 and color photo of PCX 4235 in a special double issue
of the MPHS Eagle, available for on-line purchase at www.mopac.org
(shameless plug).
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Bernd Schroeder
 

Hi Ed,

what issue would that be ? The online store description for the Eagle contents are not exactly detailed...

I do appreciate that the MPHS has also joined those Historical societies which are open for worldwide online business (I am from Germany, FWIW)


thanks
Bernd

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Packers Car Line



On Jun 7, 2009, at 12:18 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

There is a builder photo of PCX #4000 in the Burlington
Historical Society "Bulletin" #12. If I recall this car
is stenciled built in 1956.
Tim and Rupert,
The caption of PCX 4000 states the cars were built in 1956 by PC&F, but
the build date of PCX 4000 can clearly be read as 6-57. According to
the 1956 list of orders in Railway Age dated 1/14/57, Packers Car Line
ordered 400 refrigerator cars in June 1956 with delivery specified as
August 1957. The PCX 4000 made it two months earlier.

The April 1957 ORER lists the 400 cars in series PCX 4000-4399 with an
asterisk denoting additions. While there were 400 cars listed in this
ORER, the number of cars in service at that time had to be a projection
since they weren't actually built for two to four months thereafter.

By the way, 3 of these PCX cars appeared in MP Train 70 on March 26,
1959, departing Kansas City destined for St. Louis. All 3 cars
originated in Kansas City with "PHP" (packing house products). Once in
St. Louis, all 3 cars proceeded to E. St. Louis on the Terminal
Railroad Association of St. Louis for eastern destinations.

PC 4377 went on the PRR and N&W with a final destination of Norfolk,
Va., PCX 4053 went on the PRR to Pittsburgh, and PCX 4073 went on the
NYC to Albany, New York.

These cars are shown in a lengthy wheel report table along with a B&W
photo of PCX 4142 and color photo of PCX 4235 in a special double issue
of the MPHS Eagle, available for on-line purchase at www.mopac.org
(shameless plug).
Regards,
Ed Hawkins




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Ed Hawkins
 

On Jun 7, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Bernd Schroeder wrote:

what issue would that be ? The online store description for the Eagle
contents are not exactly detailed...

I do appreciate that the MPHS has also joined those Historical
societies
which are open for worldwide online business (I am from Germany, FWIW)
Bernd,
It's the Fall-Winter 2008 issue. If you live in Germany, I'm not sure
how the postage works because the normal postage amount is to addresses
in the U.S.

It's probably best to contact the manager of the company store, David
Blackburn, at mopacman@....
Ed Hawkins


Rupert & Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

Thanks to those who responded to my query about Packers Car Line, and the clarification of the actual build date of #4000. I should have studied the photo more closely!

Looking again at the 1968 ORER page being the earliest I have for Packers, I note that the external dimensions and the interior width and height are the same for both groups of cars - PCX 4000-4399 (built 1957) and 4400-4600 (history unknown). The only differences are the length between ice tanks (33' 7" for the first group and 37' 10" for the second group), the second group does not have a capacity shown for chunk ice, its capacity between ice boxes is 2050 cu. ft. compared with 1848 cu. ft. for the first group and its weight capacity is 78000 pounds rather than 72000 pounds. The cars are almost identical.

However, looking at the numbers of cars in the ORER, there were 219 of the first group and 163 of the second group, a total of 382 compared to the original group of 400 built 13 years earlier. Does this suggest that almost half the cars were rebuilt and renumbered, especially as the design was dated when the cars were first built in 1957?

Having had this brainwave, I've just realised that I am outside the 1960 cut-off. My apologies! If anyone can narrow down the first appearance of 4400-4600 sometime after 1/61, please contact me off list.


Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:25 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Packers Car Line


The caption of PCX 4000 states the cars were built in 1956 by PC&F, but
the build date of PCX 4000 can clearly be read as 6-57. According to
the 1956 list of orders in Railway Age dated 1/14/57, Packers Car Line
ordered 400 refrigerator cars in June 1956 with delivery specified as
August 1957. The PCX 4000 made it two months earlier.

The April 1957 ORER lists the 400 cars in series PCX 4000-4399 with an
asterisk denoting additions. While there were 400 cars listed in this
ORER, the number of cars in service at that time had to be a projection
since they weren't actually built for two to four months thereafter.

By the way, 3 of these PCX cars appeared in MP Train 70 on March 26,
1959, departing Kansas City destined for St. Louis. All 3 cars
originated in Kansas City with "PHP" (packing house products). Once in
St. Louis, all 3 cars proceeded to E. St. Louis on the Terminal
Railroad Association of St. Louis for eastern destinations.

PC 4377 went on the PRR and N&W with a final destination of Norfolk,
Va., PCX 4053 went on the PRR to Pittsburgh, and PCX 4073 went on the
NYC to Albany, New York.

These cars are shown in a lengthy wheel report table along with a B&W
photo of PCX 4142 and color photo of PCX 4235 in a special double issue
of the MPHS Eagle, available for on-line purchase at www.mopac.org
(shameless plug).
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

Cars of the PCX seies being discussed, just out of PC&F, are shown in color on pages 23 & 24 of Refrigerator Car Color Guide from Morning Sun. Is the photo from Bob's Photo color or black and white?
Gene Green


Rupert,
Packers Car Line had 400 cars (4000-4300) built by PC&F. A photo of PCX
4142 (available from Bob's Photo) taken 12/12/57 has NEW 8-57 stencils.
In the 1/59 and 1/62 ORERs this was the only series listed.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Rupert & Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

Gene

Can you advise me of the numbers of the cars in the book. Are these also stencilled "NEW 8-57"?

Thanks

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 7:21 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Packers Car Line


Cars of the PCX seies being discussed, just out of PC&F, are shown in color on pages 23 & 24 of Refrigerator Car Color Guide from Morning Sun. Is the photo from Bob's Photo color or black and white?
Gene Green


Rupert,
Packers Car Line had 400 cars (4000-4300) built by PC&F. A photo of PCX
4142 (available from Bob's Photo) taken 12/12/57 has NEW 8-57 stencils.
In the 1/59 and 1/62 ORERs this was the only series listed.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Brian Carlson <brian@...>
 

Rupert:
Cars 4408,4460,4203 all have reweigh dates in the 60's. 4243 and 67
additional reefers are shown on Sept 8, 1957 at PC&F. Presumably ready for
delivery(Too blurry to read the small print). PCX 4190 is listed as NEW 8-57

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Rupert & Maureen
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 3:23 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Packers Car Line

Gene

Can you advise me of the numbers of the cars in the book. Are these also
stencilled "NEW 8-57"?


Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

Rupert,
Page 23: PCX 4190 BLT 8-57 and TRAX 13004 can not read date built but it appears to be equally new.
Page 24: PCX 4243 and 66 other equally new reefers stretching into the distance but I can not read any dates built. The photographer's note on the slide mount said the photo was taken in Othello, Washington on September 8, 1957.
Page 26: TRAX 12415 BLT 6-54, TRAX 12427 BLT 7-54 and TRAX 13001 BLT 9-57. That latter car may offer a clue as to the date built for TRAX 13004. The photo of TRAX 13001 was also taken in Othello, Washington on September 8, 1957.

Hope this information is helpful.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., "Rupert & Maureen" <gamlenz@...> wrote:

Gene

Can you advise me of the numbers of the cars in the book. Are these also
stencilled "NEW 8-57"?

Thanks

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 7:21 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Packers Car Line


Cars of the PCX seies being discussed, just out of PC&F, are shown in
color on pages 23 & 24 of Refrigerator Car Color Guide from Morning Sun.
Is the photo from Bob's Photo color or black and white?
Gene Green


Rupert,
Packers Car Line had 400 cars (4000-4300) built by PC&F. A photo of PCX
4142 (available from Bob's Photo) taken 12/12/57 has NEW 8-57 stencils.
In the 1/59 and 1/62 ORERs this was the only series listed.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins