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Kadee 158s and scale appearing coupler boxes
Andy Carlson
Many of us reading these posts remember our good friend Byron Rose, the RPA of Pittsburgh Scale Models, who offers arguably the best looking scale width coupler box in HO, manufactured in polyurethane resin. They are priced quite reasonable, and I think he sells them in packs of 5 pairs.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor
Dennis I agree your Proto:HO coupler box looks great. I only
wish it were molded in polystyrene. It's not easy to work with
and mounting with screws is sometimes not possible.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor
Dennis I agree your Proto:HO coupler box looks great. I only
wish it were molded in polystyrene. It's not easy to work with
and mounting with screws is sometimes not possible.
Andy
They are very nice looking but are not scale width. I have
used many of them. The Accurail Proto:HO box was patterned
after them -- at least, Byron thought so. Later, Sunshine
created a similar pattern for some of his kits.
Tim O.
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They are very nice looking but are not scale width. I have
used many of them. The Accurail Proto:HO box was patterned
after them -- at least, Byron thought so. Later, Sunshine
created a similar pattern for some of his kits.
Tim O.
Many of us reading these posts remember our good friend Byron Rose, the RPA of Pittsburgh Scale Models, who offers arguably the best looking scale width coupler box in HO, manufactured in polyurethane resin. They are priced quite reasonable, and I think he sells them in packs of 5 pairs.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
It also sowed the seeds of an idea to design a coupler that could make use of a box that was the same width of a scale center sill, so that the detailing on the under surface of the box would be to scale. This we subsequently did with the PROTO:HO Accumate.
Since that time, I've designed new models to use EITHER box equally well; the narrow box can be substituted easily on both the gon and triple hopper. However, I haven't invested the toolmaking time to add that detail to the wide boxes; if you want a scale draft gear, you need to use closer to scale couplers.
________________________________
Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.
Just to give credit where credit is due, the idea if modeling the coupler yoke and draft stops in relief IS directly copied from Byron's part, with his permission. Someone showed me his resin boxes just about the time we were building a new mold for brake details / coupler box covers that would used for all our boxcars. I had never given much thought to the detailing of the coupler covers, simply placing our tradename there as many other manufacturers did, because the part was overly wide, and therefore not really a model of anything. Byron's part convinced me that the detailing looked pretty good, even if it was not to scale, so I contacted the RPA and asked if he'd have a problem with us doing something similar in our kits. Byron's response was go right ahead, that he had done the parts to show manufacturers what was possible.
Many of us reading these posts remember our good friend Byron Rose, the RPA of Pittsburgh Scale Models, who offers arguably the best looking scale width coupler box in HO, manufactured in polyurethane resin. They are priced quite reasonable, and I think he sells them in packs of 5 pairs.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
It also sowed the seeds of an idea to design a coupler that could make use of a box that was the same width of a scale center sill, so that the detailing on the under surface of the box would be to scale. This we subsequently did with the PROTO:HO Accumate.
Since that time, I've designed new models to use EITHER box equally well; the narrow box can be substituted easily on both the gon and triple hopper. However, I haven't invested the toolmaking time to add that detail to the wide boxes; if you want a scale draft gear, you need to use closer to scale couplers.
________________________________
From: Tim O'ConnorTim, we need the strength and low friction properties of an engineering resin to ensure that our tiny little couplers are robust enough to stand up to the rigors of service. If we made the boxes from styrene, people would try to use only glue to attach them, and the couplers would knock the covers off during hard couplings. Then everyone would complain that they were "no good", because they "always" fail. Form has to follow function, not wishful thinking.
Dennis I agree your Proto:HO coupler box looks great. I only
wish it were molded in polystyrene. It's not easy to work with
and mounting with screws is sometimes not possible.
Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.
But Dennis, you make polystyrene coupler box covers for
most of your kits, and nearly every other manufacturer
does the same thing. If the hobby isn't up in arms about
the boxes falling apart, don't you think that the glue
must be working? (Yes, I've had a couple dozen failures
over the years. I glue them back together.) Athearn has
been using stupid metal clips that are notorious for
coming off -- and they switched to polystyrene for their
more recent models.
Tim O'Connor
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most of your kits, and nearly every other manufacturer
does the same thing. If the hobby isn't up in arms about
the boxes falling apart, don't you think that the glue
must be working? (Yes, I've had a couple dozen failures
over the years. I glue them back together.) Athearn has
been using stupid metal clips that are notorious for
coming off -- and they switched to polystyrene for their
more recent models.
Tim O'Connor
Tim, we need the strength and low friction properties of an engineering resin to ensure that our tiny little couplers are robust enough to stand up to the rigors of service. If we made the boxes from styrene, people would try to use only glue to attach them, and the couplers would knock the covers off during hard couplings. Then everyone would complain that they were "no good", because they "always" fail. Form has to follow function, not wishful thinking.
Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.
Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
Tim,
The Accumate box does more than just hold the coupler to the car, it also has to hold the parts in line. In our initial destructive testing of the full size Accumate, the common failure mode was to have the two shanks spread so far that the interlocking peg would come out of its mating recess and jam the shanks against the coupler box cover, which had to bend down to allow this to happen. The acetal coupler moldings would normally survive intact, and would work again when manually returned to centered. But, if the lid had taken a set, the couplers became more prone to doing this a second time.
Our full size coupler box covers are .044" thick, on average. In order to put the PROTO:HO parts in a box that fits within the outline of the prototype, the box needs to be .020" A quick look at typical physical properties of high impact polystyrene vs. acetal shows that acetal is two to three times stronger, stiffer, and more break resistant (less notch sensitive). If these were appearance parts on static models would be one thing, but they are not. People expect to run these in thirty or fifty car trains, and the occasional "oopsie" when a locomotive hits a standing train at a scale 50 MPH is a fact of life that people expect things to survive without suffering damage. The fact that the parts must be installed with screws just reinforces the fact that we INTEND the parts to be installed with screws, for the sake of durability. I'm satisfied that we are providing parts made of the material that is best suited to the purpose.
Dennis
So? We want to do better.
But Dennis, you make polystyrene coupler box covers for
most of your kits, and nearly every other manufacturer
does the same thing.
If the hobby isn't up in arms about
the boxes falling apart, don't you think that the glue
must be working? (Yes, I've had a couple dozen failures
over the years. I glue them back together.)
Tim,
The Accumate box does more than just hold the coupler to the car, it also has to hold the parts in line. In our initial destructive testing of the full size Accumate, the common failure mode was to have the two shanks spread so far that the interlocking peg would come out of its mating recess and jam the shanks against the coupler box cover, which had to bend down to allow this to happen. The acetal coupler moldings would normally survive intact, and would work again when manually returned to centered. But, if the lid had taken a set, the couplers became more prone to doing this a second time.
Our full size coupler box covers are .044" thick, on average. In order to put the PROTO:HO parts in a box that fits within the outline of the prototype, the box needs to be .020" A quick look at typical physical properties of high impact polystyrene vs. acetal shows that acetal is two to three times stronger, stiffer, and more break resistant (less notch sensitive). If these were appearance parts on static models would be one thing, but they are not. People expect to run these in thirty or fifty car trains, and the occasional "oopsie" when a locomotive hits a standing train at a scale 50 MPH is a fact of life that people expect things to survive without suffering damage. The fact that the parts must be installed with screws just reinforces the fact that we INTEND the parts to be installed with screws, for the sake of durability. I'm satisfied that we are providing parts made of the material that is best suited to the purpose.
Dennis