main@RealSTMFC.groups.io | Hoppers on the Rutland

Armand Premo

#83022

During the month of December 1950 249 hoppers were on Train#9.They were as follows:B&O 76,PRR 57, NYC 39 ,RDG 12,BWC 10 ,DL&W 9 ,D&H 8, WM 6 ,PL&E and LV 4 ,MRR, ERIE and N&W 3 ,CRP and PWV 2,1 ea for the following:CB&Q,L&N.NC&StL,NKP, CNW ,SOU ,NH ,PKY ,INT ,C&I ,CCO ,PS.I didn't check the total,but suspect that it is reasonably accurate.Can ,or should one draw any conclusions from the above? Your call.Armand Premo

Tim O'Connor

#83031

Armand, I think one obvious conclusion is that bituminous
coal predominated on the Rutland. I wonder how much of the
coal was for the Rutland's own consumption? Also, the three
largest owners all reached into northern New York state, so
this reinforces the idea that nearby railroads should be
more heavily represented than railroads further away.

What is reporting mark PS? Pittsburgh & Shawmut? And MRR?

What was the route of #9?

Tim O'Connor

Show quoted text

During the month of December 1950 249 hoppers were on Train #9.
They were as follows:

 B&O   76
 PRR   57
 NYC   39
 RDG   12
 BWC   10
 DL&W   9
 D&H    8
 WM     6
 P&LE   4
 LV     4
 MRR    3
 ERIE   3
 N&W    3
 CRP    2
 PWV    2
 CB&Q   1
 L&N    1
 NC&StL 1
 NKP    1
 CNW    1
 SOU    1
 NH     1
 PMcK&Y 1
 INT    1
 C&I    1
 CCO    1
 PS     1

I didn't check the total, but suspect that it is reasonably
accurate. Can or should one draw any conclusions from the
above? Your call.Armand Premo

mforsyth127

#83033

Tim O'Connor wrote:

What is reporting mark PS? Pittsburgh & Shawmut? And MRR?
Tim,

I would venture a guess that MRR stands for Montour Rail Road (I might be wrong), and belive that their actual reporting mark was just the letter "M".

Matt Forsyth

Modeling the DL&W, Erie, PRR,
NYC, and LV in "O" Scale
Elmira, NY 1951

SUVCWORR@...

#83042

PS? is Pittsburgh & Shamut

Montour was M? then MTR not MRR

The only reference to MRR I have is Mid-Atlantic RR from 1988 - 1996 when it was taken over? by the Carolina Southern RR.

Rich Orr

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: mforsyth127 <mforsyth127@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 7:26 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Hoppers on the Rutland

Tim O'Connor wrote:

What is reporting mark PS? Pittsburgh & Shawmut? And MRR?
Tim, 

I would venture a guess that MRR stands for Montour Rail Road (I might be 
wrong), and belive that their actual reporting mark was just the letter "M".

Matt Forsyth

Modeling the DL&W, Erie, PRR,
NYC, and LV in "O" Scale
Elmira, NY 1951

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Armand Premo

#83051

Tim,MRR is the Montour.Train # 9 is from Alburgh,Vt to the NYC interchange at Norwood,NY.Train # 9 for the most part was Train #19 from Rutland to Alburgh.Ben Hom did an analysis of company coal reports and this study would pretty much support your theory.and is essentially the same as the month of November.The surprises were the appearance of :Southern, L&N ,CB&Q,CCO ,NC&StL,PWV, INT , C&I ,CNW as well as PS.The Berwyn cars would come in on Train # 10 and would be interchanged with the CV at Alburgh.The BWC cars in Train # 9 were empties as were most of the hoppers in those trains.Armand Premo

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tim O'Connor 
  To: STMFC@... 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 8:08 PM
  Subject: Re: [STMFC] Hoppers on the Rutland

  Armand, I think one obvious conclusion is that bituminous
  coal predominated on the Rutland. I wonder how much of the
  coal was for the Rutland's own consumption? Also, the three
  largest owners all reached into northern New York state, so
  this reinforces the idea that nearby railroads should be
  more heavily represented than railroads further away.

  What is reporting mark PS? Pittsburgh & Shawmut? And MRR?

  What was the route of #9?

  Tim O'Connor

  >During the month of December 1950 249 hoppers were on Train #9.
  >They were as follows:
  >
  > B&O 76
  > PRR 57
  > NYC 39
  > RDG 12
  > BWC 10
  > DL&W 9
  > D&H 8
  > WM 6
  > P&LE 4
  > LV 4
  > MRR 3
  > ERIE 3
  > N&W 3
  > CRP 2
  > PWV 2
  > CB&Q 1
  > L&N 1
  > NC&StL 1
  > NKP 1
  > CNW 1
  > SOU 1
  > NH 1
  > PMcK&Y 1
  > INT 1
  > C&I 1
  > CCO 1
  > PS 1
  >
  >I didn't check the total, but suspect that it is reasonably
  >accurate. Can or should one draw any conclusions from the
  >above? Your call.Armand Premo

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Armand Premo

#83052

Rich only reporting what was on the Wheel Report.Armand Premo

Show quoted text

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: SUVCWORR@... 
  To: STMFC@... 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 9:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Hoppers on the Rutland

  PS? is Pittsburgh & Shamut

  Montour was M? then MTR not MRR

  The only reference to MRR I have is Mid-Atlantic RR from 1988 - 1996 when it was taken over? by the Carolina Southern RR.

  Rich Orr

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mforsyth127 <mforsyth127@...>
  To: STMFC@...
  Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 7:26 pm
  Subject: [STMFC] Re: Hoppers on the Rutland

  Tim O'Connor wrote:
  >
  > What is reporting mark PS? Pittsburgh & Shawmut? And MRR?

  Tim, 

  I would venture a guess that MRR stands for Montour Rail Road (I might be 
  wrong), and belive that their actual reporting mark was just the letter "M".

  Matt Forsyth

  Modeling the DL&W, Erie, PRR,
  NYC, and LV in "O" Scale
  Elmira, NY 1951

  ------------------------------------

  Yahoo! Groups Links

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
  Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.8/2223 - Release Date: 07/07/09 17:54:00

SUVCWORR@...

#83058

Armand,

We all know handwriting can be difficult to read at times and typos do occur.? Considering the location of the T and R keys on a typewriter, a typo is entirely possible if this is a typed list.? I was just pointing out that MRR is not a reporting mark for the Montour.

Rich

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Armand Premo <armprem2@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2009 4:39 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Hoppers on the Rutland

    Rich only reporting what was on the Wheel Report.Armand Premo
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: SUVCWORR@... 
  To: STMFC@... 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 9:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Hoppers on the Rutland

  PS? is Pittsburgh & Shamut

  Montour was M? then MTR not MRR

  The only reference to MRR I have is Mid-Atlantic RR from 1988 - 1996 when it 
was taken over? by the Carolina Southern RR.

  Rich Orr

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mforsyth127 <mforsyth127@...>
  To: STMFC@...
  Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 7:26 pm
  Subject: [STMFC] Re: Hoppers on the Rutland

  Tim O'Connor wrote:
  >
  > What is reporting mark PS? Pittsburgh & Shawmut? And MRR?

  Tim, 

  I would venture a guess that MRR stands for Montour Rail Road (I might be 
  wrong), and belive that their actual reporting mark was just the letter "M".

  Matt Forsyth

  Modeling the DL&W, Erie, PRR,
  NYC, and LV in "O" Scale
  Elmira, NY 1951

  ------------------------------------

  Yahoo! Groups Links

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
  Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.8/2223 - Release Date: 07/07/09 
17:54:00

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Tim O'Connor

#83060

Armand

I look at it this way: about 10% of the cars are what I'd
call "oddballs" -- accidental tourists, as it were. That
seems about right to me, for coal hoppers, in the 1950's.
I don't count any of the likely anthracite cars (RDG/DL&W/
ERIE/LV/D&H) in that 10%, although they could easily have
gotten mixed into blocks of cars from the B&O/PRR/NYC. And
the P&LE cars could be mixed up with NYC cars.

Tim O'Connor

Show quoted text

Tim,MRR is the Montour.Train # 9 is from Alburgh,Vt to the NYC interchange at Norwood,NY.Train # 9 for the most part was Train #19 from Rutland to Alburgh.Ben Hom did an analysis of company coal reports and this study would pretty much support your theory.and is essentially the same as the month of November.The surprises were the appearance of :Southern, L&N ,CB&Q,CCO ,NC&StL,PWV, INT , C&I ,CNW as well as PS.The Berwyn cars would come in on Train # 10 and would be interchanged with the CV at Alburgh.The BWC cars in Train # 9 were empties as were most of the hoppers in those trains.Armand Premo
 ----- Original Message ----- 
 From: Tim O'Connor 
 To: STMFC@... 
 Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 8:08 PM
 Subject: Re: [STMFC] Hoppers on the Rutland





 Armand, I think one obvious conclusion is that bituminous
 coal predominated on the Rutland. I wonder how much of the
 coal was for the Rutland's own consumption? Also, the three
 largest owners all reached into northern New York state, so
 this reinforces the idea that nearby railroads should be
 more heavily represented than railroads further away.

 What is reporting mark PS? Pittsburgh & Shawmut? And MRR?

 What was the route of #9?

 Tim O'Connor

 >During the month of December 1950 249 hoppers were on Train #9.
 >They were as follows:
 >
 > B&O 76
 > PRR 57
 > NYC 39
 > RDG 12
 > BWC 10
 > DL&W 9
 > D&H 8
 > WM 6
 > P&LE 4
 > LV 4
 > MRR 3
 > ERIE 3
 > N&W 3
 > CRP 2
 > PWV 2
 > CB&Q 1
 > L&N 1
 > NC&StL 1
 > NKP 1
 > CNW 1
 > SOU 1
 > NH 1
 > PMcK&Y 1
 > INT 1
 > C&I 1
 > CCO 1
 > PS 1
 >
 >I didn't check the total, but suspect that it is reasonably
 >accurate. Can or should one draw any conclusions from the
 >above? Your call.Armand Premo

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>

#83092

Armand Premo wrote:
"...only reporting what was on the Wheel Report."

Rich Orr replied:
"We all know handwriting can be difficult to read at times and typos
do occur. Considering the location of the T and R keys on a
typewriter, a typo is entirely possible if this is a typed list. I
was just pointing out that MRR is not a reporting mark for the
Montour."

I have scanned copies of some of Armand's Wheel Reports.

1. The entries in the reports are hand written.

2. The entry indeed reads, "MRR".

3. The same clerk used shorthand for other roads, i.e., PRR was "PA"; NYC was "C".

Bottom line - examination of wheel reports and shifting lists revealed that clerks and conductors used shorthand and abbreviations in their paperwork.  The researcher must be aware of this when analyzing these documents.


Ben Hom