Topics

GPEX 977 and 969 Milk reefers in freight service for Ever Sweet OJ


Bill McCoy
 

There were 2 former General American - Pfaulder milk reefers that went into freight service for The Ever Sweet Corporation in 1955 and 1960. They were used between Frost Proof, FL and Lyons, IL with either bulk OJ or concentrate. Athearn has done a nice decorating job representing both cars unfortunately on their very poor GAC express reefer. I want to paint and letter a Walthers milk reefer for Ever Sweet and need to get good copies of the General American builders photos to get decals made. The NEB&W web site has mediocre quality photos that are credited as builders photos of both cars. Any suggestions as to where good copies can be purchased?

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL


Charlie Vlk
 

????
What Athearn car are you talking about as being "very poor"????
The old MDC 50' Express Reefer, or the old Athearn 50' Express Reefer?
The Walthers milk reefer is a rework of the 53'-6" General American Express Reefer.
Was the car a 40' or 50' car?
BTW, where was the Ever Sweet plant.... was it served by the Lyons Belt, C&IW, or IHB?
Charlie Vlk
There were 2 former General American - Pfaulder milk reefers that went into freight service for The Ever Sweet Corporation in 1955 and 1960. They were used between Frost Proof, FL and Lyons, IL with either bulk OJ or concentrate. Athearn has done a nice decorating job representing both cars unfortunately on their very poor GAC express reefer. I want to paint and letter a Walthers milk reefer for Ever Sweet and need to get good copies of the General American builders photos to get decals made. The NEB&W web site has mediocre quality photos that are credited as builders photos of both cars. Any suggestions as to where good copies can be purchased?

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL

.


Bill McCoy
 

Charlie, I really don't know. I think it was the Athearn car. Either way it doesn't hold a candle to the BLI and WLW GAC 50' express reefers and WLW milk car. It also is still an Express reefer complete with hatches and no filler over the door.

Re who served them in Chicago (Lyons) I don't have a clue. If someone has a 1960s Chicago switching tarriff it should show since IRC Lyons was in the switching district. Most important to me is that Frostproof was local on the ACL and their best route would have been either Atlanta or Birmingham L&N.

I'm determined to have a milk reefer and these look like the only ones that could have traveled via Atlanta during my modeling period Atlanta 1957-1967.

Bill
Jax, FL

--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie Vlk" <cvlk@...> wrote:

????
What Athearn car are you talking about as being "very poor"????
The old MDC 50' Express Reefer, or the old Athearn 50' Express Reefer?
The Walthers milk reefer is a rework of the 53'-6" General American Express Reefer.
Was the car a 40' or 50' car?
BTW, where was the Ever Sweet plant.... was it served by the Lyons Belt, C&IW, or IHB?
Charlie Vlk
There were 2 former General American - Pfaulder milk reefers that went into freight service for The Ever Sweet Corporation in 1955 and 1960. They were used between Frost Proof, FL and Lyons, IL with either bulk OJ or concentrate. Athearn has done a nice decorating job representing both cars unfortunately on their very poor GAC express reefer. I want to paint and letter a Walthers milk reefer for Ever Sweet and need to get good copies of the General American builders photos to get decals made. The NEB&W web site has mediocre quality photos that are credited as builders photos of both cars. Any suggestions as to where good copies can be purchased?

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL

.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Donald B. Valentine
 

--- In STMFC@..., "salemoryga" <wpmccoy@...> wrote:

Charlie, I really don't know. I think it was the Athearn car. Either >way it doesn't hold a candle to the BLI and WLW GAC 50' express >reefers and WLW milk car. It also is still an Express reefer complete >with hatches and no filler over the door.

Re who served them in Chicago (Lyons) I don't have a clue. If someone >has a 1960s Chicago switching tarriff it should show since IRC Lyons >was in the switching district. Most important to me is that Frostproof >was local on the ACL and their best route would have been either >Atlanta or Birmingham L&N.

I'm determined to have a milk reefer and these look like the only >ones that could have traveled via Atlanta during my modeling period >Atlanta 1957-1967.

Now you are tromping in my field of expertise so perhaps I can assist. I agree with the numbers and service for the two cars cited. Eversweet was not the only company to use GPEX cars in the transport
of orange juice concentrate, however, as this was also done by both
H.P. Hood & Sons and the Whiting Milk Co., both based in Boston. In Hood's case the product was moved in 52 ft. GPEX cars of the last style constructed in 1947. These were the 8,000 gal. version of the 6,000 gal. car that InterMountain made such a mess of with their model having a totally incorrect roof slope angle and, thus, improper ends as well.
In such use these cars remained in their standard GPEX Pullman Green paint with Dulux lettering denoting whomever the car was leased to.
Hood's OJ originated in Dunedin, Fl. where Hood purchased an orange juice processing plant. I do not know where Whiting acquired theirs but know it came from Florida. You also have the Seminole Milk Co. of Jacksonville that had milk tank cars of the General American type early on that might be used to justify an actual milk car that operated in Florida. I'm sorry that I can't assist with the routing of that car or a date when the service ended but, if memory serves, the processing plant was located near a major yard in Jax. From this you can see that the cars you mentioned are not the only possibilites open to you.

Returning specifically to GPEX 969 and 977 which you refer to some additonal points need to be raised. The General American "builders photos" that I have of these two cars are in reality only photos that were taken to document the paint scheme used on these two cars in OJ seervice, both both having been built in the 1920's. The photo of 977 was taken subsequent to its November 1955 servicing at General American's East Chicago facility while that of 969 was taken subsequent to its March 1960 servicing there. As you must be aware, however, these two cars were not at all painted in the same manner. The 977 was not lettered with the usual GPEX Roman style of lettering except for its reporting marks. To the left of the door the lettering stated "Scenic Citrus Corporation" over "Lyons, Illinois-Frostproof, Florida", with both states spelled out in their entirety. To the right of the door in fanciful script was a large "Eversweet" over "100% pure orange juice" in smaller lettering of the same font used for the lessees name at the left. I presume that the body of this car was painted Pullman green but am not certain of that having no color photos or lettering diagrams for the car. The "General American - Pfaudler Corporation" on the letterboard appears to be in GPEX's standard Dulux gold color and font while the remainder of the lettering on the cars' sides appears to be in white or, possibly, aluminum color. Non-standard for GPEX in any case. The 969 is altogether different in the way it was painted, again as you are probably well aware. The bottom two feet or so of the car sides have a dark band, above which the remainder of the car side is a much lighter color. White or possibly yellow or orange, I cannot tell, though orange would certainly fit with its service. But the "Scenic Citrus Corporation" had by this time become the "Eversweet Corporation" in the same lettering font used on 977 but in a contrasting dark color.
To the right of the door the fanciful "EverSweet" lettering had been reduced considerably in size, moved to the left and had what I would describe as a 1 qt. size Excello carton pouring orange juice into a glass painted on the car. To the right of the carton were the words "Fresh squeezed orange juice" in still another different lettering font. I had not given it any thought previously but wonder if what you suggest might be correct and that this car carried 100% juice rather than concentrate.

There are two points about these cars that I wonder if you have considered in using any of the available styrene models for them. First is the fact that the 969 has an ice hatch on at least the left hand side of the "A" end of the car when facing the "A" end, though the 977 does not appear to have this feature. Such an ice hatch isn't too big a job to add for an accurate model but what on earth are you going to do about the doors??? In case you had not noticed it the reefer style doors used on both of these cars had been replaced with the more narrow, single style of replacement door, initiated with GPEX 950 in April of 1944, before they entered orange juice service. To model this door accurately would require some fairly major reworking of the car sides, though it certainly could be done.

In any event, I have copies of R. Loganecker's original "builders photos" of these cars and might be able to assist if someone could be found to print them as my darkroom is down at the moment. And to keep the SMTFC police at least partially happy it should also be noted that H.P. Hood & Sons was the last known outfit to operate GPEX cars in either milk or OJ service, with both having ended in 1972. Many such cars went to the GM&O for use as water cars in work train service, while others went to museums. By the end of milk and/or OJ service, however, the passenger steam heat and air signal lines, as well as the buffers, had been removed, relegating the cars to freight service only even if a bit later than the era of this list when this was done. They also had "push or shove to rest" lettering added at the end of their carsides when used in freight service.

For anyone seriously interested in milk car and milk train information I moderate a list for same as another Yahoo group under the NAMTA heading for North American Milk Train Association. There are two milk car groups on Yahoo, teh NAMTA group and a less serious one.

Hope this helps, Don Valentine


Bob McCarthy
 

Goodevening,
 
     Appreciate all the reseach being done as we are going to produce the decals for these cars when enough information is gathered.
 
    We will need to have some idea of how many sets and in what scales we will need to produce.  Please forward requirements to the email address below.  We will have pricing once we can determine the complexity of what we will need to create and print.
 
Thanks,
 
Bob McCarthy
THE SUPPLY CAR, LLC
thesupplycar@...

--- On Sat, 8/22/09, riverman_vt <riverman_vt@...> wrote:


From: riverman_vt <riverman_vt@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: GPEX 977 and 969 Milk reefers in freight service for Ever Sweet OJ
To: STMFC@...
Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 10:29 AM


 



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "salemoryga" <wpmccoy@... > wrote:

Charlie, I really don't know. I think it was the Athearn car. Either >way it doesn't hold a candle to the BLI and WLW GAC 50' express >reefers and WLW milk car. It also is still an Express reefer complete >with hatches and no filler over the door.

Re who served them in Chicago (Lyons) I don't have a clue. If someone >has a 1960s Chicago switching tarriff it should show since IRC Lyons >was in the switching district. Most important to me is that Frostproof >was local on the ACL and their best route would have been either >Atlanta or Birmingham L&N.

I'm determined to have a milk reefer and these look like the only >ones that could have traveled via Atlanta during my modeling period >Atlanta 1957-1967.
Now you are tromping in my field of expertise so perhaps I can assist. I agree with the numbers and service for the two cars cited. Eversweet was not the only company to use GPEX cars in the transport
of orange juice concentrate, however, as this was also done by both
H.P. Hood & Sons and the Whiting Milk Co., both based in Boston. In Hood's case the product was moved in 52 ft. GPEX cars of the last style constructed in 1947. These were the 8,000 gal. version of the 6,000 gal. car that InterMountain made such a mess of with their model having a totally incorrect roof slope angle and, thus, improper ends as well.
In such use these cars remained in their standard GPEX Pullman Green paint with Dulux lettering denoting whomever the car was leased to.
Hood's OJ originated in Dunedin, Fl. where Hood purchased an orange juice processing plant. I do not know where Whiting acquired theirs but know it came from Florida. You also have the Seminole Milk Co. of Jacksonville that had milk tank cars of the General American type early on that might be used to justify an actual milk car that operated in Florida. I'm sorry that I can't assist with the routing of that car or a date when the service ended but, if memory serves, the processing plant was located near a major yard in Jax. From this you can see that the cars you mentioned are not the only possibilites open to you.

Returning specifically to GPEX 969 and 977 which you refer to some additonal points need to be raised. The General American "builders photos" that I have of these two cars are in reality only photos that were taken to document the paint scheme used on these two cars in OJ seervice, both both having been built in the 1920's. The photo of 977 was taken subsequent to its November 1955 servicing at General American's East Chicago facility while that of 969 was taken subsequent to its March 1960 servicing there. As you must be aware, however, these two cars were not at all painted in the same manner. The 977 was not lettered with the usual GPEX Roman style of lettering except for its reporting marks. To the left of the door the lettering stated "Scenic Citrus Corporation" over "Lyons, Illinois-Frostproof , Florida", with both states spelled out in their entirety. To the right of the door in fanciful script was a large "Eversweet" over "100% pure orange juice"
in smaller lettering of the same font used for the lessees name at the left. I presume that the body of this car was painted Pullman green but am not certain of that having no color photos or lettering diagrams for the car. The "General American - Pfaudler Corporation" on the letterboard appears to be in GPEX's standard Dulux gold color and font while the remainder of the lettering on the cars' sides appears to be in white or, possibly, aluminum color. Non-standard for GPEX in any case. The 969 is altogether different in the way it was painted, again as you are probably well aware. The bottom two feet or so of the car sides have a dark band, above which the remainder of the car side is a much lighter color. White or possibly yellow or orange, I cannot tell, though orange would certainly fit with its service. But the "Scenic Citrus Corporation" had by this time become the "Eversweet Corporation" in the same lettering font used on 977 but in a contrasting
dark color.
To the right of the door the fanciful "EverSweet" lettering had been reduced considerably in size, moved to the left and had what I would describe as a 1 qt. size Excello carton pouring orange juice into a glass painted on the car. To the right of the carton were the words "Fresh squeezed orange juice" in still another different lettering font. I had not given it any thought previously but wonder if what you suggest might be correct and that this car carried 100% juice rather than concentrate.

There are two points about these cars that I wonder if you have considered in using any of the available styrene models for them. First is the fact that the 969 has an ice hatch on at least the left hand side of the "A" end of the car when facing the "A" end, though the 977 does not appear to have this feature. Such an ice hatch isn't too big a job to add for an accurate model but what on earth are you going to do about the doors??? In case you had not noticed it the reefer style doors used on both of these cars had been replaced with the more narrow, single style of replacement door, initiated with GPEX 950 in April of 1944, before they entered orange juice service. To model this door accurately would require some fairly major reworking of the car sides, though it certainly could be done.

In any event, I have copies of R. Loganecker's original "builders photos" of these cars and might be able to assist if someone could be found to print them as my darkroom is down at the moment. And to keep the SMTFC police at least partially happy it should also be noted that H.P. Hood & Sons was the last known outfit to operate GPEX cars in either milk or OJ service, with both having ended in 1972. Many such cars went to the GM&O for use as water cars in work train service, while others went to museums. By the end of milk and/or OJ service, however, the passenger steam heat and air signal lines, as well as the buffers, had been removed, relegating the cars to freight service only even if a bit later than the era of this list when this was done. They also had "push or shove to rest" lettering added at the end of their carsides when used in freight service.

For anyone seriously interested in milk car and milk train information I moderate a list for same as another Yahoo group under the NAMTA heading for North American Milk Train Association. There are two milk car groups on Yahoo, teh NAMTA group and a less serious one.

Hope this helps, Don Valentine



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bill McCoy
 

Don, Thanks for the info on the Hood and Whiting moves. Were these moves to Boston? I'm certain you're correct that this was OJ not concentrate. I know the IM cars have their short comings but were the 6000 and 8000 gal. cars externally the same?. Unfortiunately they seem to be the only show in town except for brass renditions of these cars. Also did these cars in addition to the juice service stenciling, get full freight car capacity and load limit data like the Ever Sweet cars did? I gather the other graphics stayed the same as is on the IM cars. Did they have their passenger service appliances removed early in their freight service or was that near the end? Was this OJ service going during the 50s' and 60s?

RE Seminole Milk, we discussed this on the Milk Car Yahoo group a couple of years back. This was apparently a short lived one car operation that was transloaded as the processor was a mile ot two from the nearest possible unloading spot at Jacksonville Terminal Station. I see Athearn/Roundhouse offered this model on one of their MDT milk reefers (wrong car unfortunately).

I would very much like to get copies of your Ever Sweet photos. Maybe you can have them scanned. We can discuss further off line. Stan Rydarowicz offers resin reefer doors so I may be able to find something to replace the incorrect door when I see him in Naperville if I can get the correct demensions. Athearn seems to have gotten the paint right on their renditions of GPEX 977 and 969. Too bad it's on such a poor model.

Thanks for all your help.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL

--- In STMFC@..., "riverman_vt" <riverman_vt@...> wrote:


Now you are tromping in my field of expertise so perhaps I can assist. I agree with the numbers and service for the two cars cited. Eversweet was not the only company to use GPEX cars in the transport
of orange juice concentrate, however, as this was also done by both
H.P. Hood & Sons and the Whiting Milk Co., both based in Boston. In Hood's case the product was moved in 52 ft. GPEX cars of the last style constructed in 1947. These were the 8,000 gal. version of the 6,000 gal. car that InterMountain made such a mess of with their model having a totally incorrect roof slope angle and, thus, improper ends as well.
In such use these cars remained in their standard GPEX Pullman Green paint with Dulux lettering denoting whomever the car was leased to.
Hood's OJ originated in Dunedin, Fl. where Hood purchased an orange juice processing plant. I do not know where Whiting acquired theirs but know it came from Florida. You also have the Seminole Milk Co. of Jacksonville that had milk tank cars of the General American type early on that might be used to justify an actual milk car that operated in Florida. I'm sorry that I can't assist with the routing of that car or a date when the service ended but, if memory serves, the processing plant was located near a major yard in Jax. From this you can see that the cars you mentioned are not the only possibilites open to you.

Returning specifically to GPEX 969 and 977 which you refer to some additonal points need to be raised. The General American "builders photos" that I have of these two cars are in reality only photos that were taken to document the paint scheme used on these two cars in OJ seervice, both both having been built in the 1920's. The photo of 977 was taken subsequent to its November 1955 servicing at General American's East Chicago facility while that of 969 was taken subsequent to its March 1960 servicing there. As you must be aware, however, these two cars were not at all painted in the same manner. The 977 was not lettered with the usual GPEX Roman style of lettering except for its reporting marks. To the left of the door the lettering stated "Scenic Citrus Corporation" over "Lyons, Illinois-Frostproof, Florida", with both states spelled out in their entirety. To the right of the door in fanciful script was a large "Eversweet" over "100% pure orange juice" in smaller lettering of the same font used for the lessees name at the left. I presume that the body of this car was painted Pullman green but am not certain of that having no color photos or lettering diagrams for the car. The "General American - Pfaudler Corporation" on the letterboard appears to be in GPEX's standard Dulux gold color and font while the remainder of the lettering on the cars' sides appears to be in white or, possibly, aluminum color. Non-standard for GPEX in any case. The 969 is altogether different in the way it was painted, again as you are probably well aware. The bottom two feet or so of the car sides have a dark band, above which the remainder of the car side is a much lighter color. White or possibly yellow or orange, I cannot tell, though orange would certainly fit with its service. But the "Scenic Citrus Corporation" had by this time become the "Eversweet Corporation" in the same lettering font used on 977 but in a contrasting dark color.
To the right of the door the fanciful "EverSweet" lettering had been reduced considerably in size, moved to the left and had what I would describe as a 1 qt. size Excello carton pouring orange juice into a glass painted on the car. To the right of the carton were the words "Fresh squeezed orange juice" in still another different lettering font. I had not given it any thought previously but wonder if what you suggest might be correct and that this car carried 100% juice rather than concentrate.

There are two points about these cars that I wonder if you have considered in using any of the available styrene models for them. First is the fact that the 969 has an ice hatch on at least the left hand side of the "A" end of the car when facing the "A" end, though the 977 does not appear to have this feature. Such an ice hatch isn't too big a job to add for an accurate model but what on earth are you going to do about the doors??? In case you had not noticed it the reefer style doors used on both of these cars had been replaced with the more narrow, single style of replacement door, initiated with GPEX 950 in April of 1944, before they entered orange juice service. To model this door accurately would require some fairly major reworking of the car sides, though it certainly could be done.

In any event, I have copies of R. Loganecker's original "builders photos" of these cars and might be able to assist if someone could be found to print them as my darkroom is down at the moment. And to keep the SMTFC police at least partially happy it should also be noted that H.P. Hood & Sons was the last known outfit to operate GPEX cars in either milk or OJ service, with both having ended in 1972. Many such cars went to the GM&O for use as water cars in work train service, while others went to museums. By the end of milk and/or OJ service, however, the passenger steam heat and air signal lines, as well as the buffers, had been removed, relegating the cars to freight service only even if a bit later than the era of this list when this was done. They also had "push or shove to rest" lettering added at the end of their carsides when used in freight service.

For anyone seriously interested in milk car and milk train information I moderate a list for same as another Yahoo group under the NAMTA heading for North American Milk Train Association. There are two milk car groups on Yahoo, teh NAMTA group and a less serious one.

Hope this helps, Don Valentine


Donald B. Valentine
 

--- In STMFC@..., "salemoryga" <wpmccoy@...> wrote:

Don, Thanks for the info on the Hood and Whiting moves. Were these moves to Boston? I'm certain you're correct that this was OJ not concentrate. I know the IM cars have their short comings but were the 6000 and 8000 gal. cars externally the same?. Unfortiunately they seem to be the only show in town except for brass renditions of these cars. Also did these cars in addition to the juice service stenciling, get full freight car capacity and load limit data like the Ever Sweet cars did? I gather the other graphics stayed the same as is on the IM cars. Did they have their passenger service appliances removed early in their freight service or was that near the end? Was this OJ service going during the 50s' and 60s?

RE Seminole Milk, we discussed this on the Milk Car Yahoo group a couple of years back. This was apparently a short lived one car operation that was transloaded as the processor was a mile ot two from the nearest possible unloading spot at Jacksonville Terminal Station. I see Athearn/Roundhouse offered this model on one of their MDT milk reefers (wrong car unfortunately).

I would very much like to get copies of your Ever Sweet photos. Maybe you can have them scanned. We can discuss further off line. Stan Rydarowicz offers resin reefer doors so I may be able to find something to replace the incorrect door when I see him in Naperville if I can get the correct demensions. Athearn seems to have gotten the paint right on their renditions of GPEX 977 and 969. Too bad it's on such a poor model.
Hello agan Bill and all,

Yes, both the Hood and Whiting OJ shipments from Florida were direct to Boston. The processing plants of both dairies were immediately adjacent to different parts of the B&M large group of yards in the Charlestown, Cambridge and East Somerville area.
The 8,000 gal cars were 52 ft. in length while the 6,000 gal. cars were only 40 ft. The quickest way to tell is to look at the side panels. On the 6,000 gal. cars there are three matching body panels centered in the total of seven on either side of the doors. On the 8,000 gal. cars that number increases to four matching panels out of the total of eight. If you are satisfied with the InterMountain car's
well documented shortcomings I suppose you could always get two and sacrifice one to get the needed panels or, more economically, get three and sacrifice one to get two of the needed 52 ft. length. The EverSweet cars, as you noted, can be modified from Walthers cars.
Don't forget to remove the boltheads on the ends and sides from the ice bunkers of the express reefer version that Walthers did not remove when offerng the car with only a different roof for a "milk car" version.

You suggest the addition of "normal" freight car nomenclature to the EverSweet cars. This does not appear at all in the two "as shopped and repainted" photos taken for the record that I have. In the case of Whiting, while I am well aware of their having brought OJ from Florida to Boston in such cars the specific cars have never been identified. The Hood cars are another matter. Whiting gave up on their milk tank cars, both owned and leased, over a dozen years earlier than Hood, the last known user of such cars for either milk or OJ transport, Hood not ending such movements until August 1972 as best we can determine. None of the cars remaining in use at that time ever received any additional lettering other then the "Push or shove to rest" at the ends of the car sides mentioned previously. There was no lettering added to denote which cars were for OJ service and which were not either. The BOL would provide the info. As to the lack of freight car nomenclature I suspect it was not required becasue the cars were always in dedicated route service rather than free roamers.
In milk service the Hood cars were limited to operating over a maximum of eight railroads and the Whiting cars six. In OJ service I suspect it was not many more and therein is probably the reason none of the Hood or Whiting cars in OJ service are known to have acquired
standard freight car data lettering. As noted, I am unaware of such lettering being applied to either of the two EverSweet cars and would like to see photos of same if they can be found. I will see what I can do with prints for you of the two photos I have of them but would suggest you query me privately in a three weeks or so to see where I'm at with that. I'm sure nothing will occur for at least the next two. You will need Borden's GPEX 950 as well.

Take care, Don Valentine


Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "riverman_vt" <riverman_vt@...> wrote:
The 8,000 gal cars were 52 ft. in length while the 6,000 gal. cars were only 40 ft. The quickest way to tell is to look at the side panels. On the 6,000 gal. cars there are three matching body panels centered in the total of seven on either side of the doors. On the 8,000 gal. cars that number increases to four matching panels out of the total of eight. If you are satisfied with the InterMountain car's
well documented shortcomings I suppose you could always get two and sacrifice one to get the needed panels or, more economically, get three and sacrifice one to get two of the needed 52 ft. length.
Didn't I just post a link to one of these cars in a museum recently? I suspect that GPEX 1021 is an 8000 gal. car, the photos show "leased to Fleischmann" stenciling, but I don't know the date or location of that service.

http://www.irm.org/cgi-bin/rsearch.cgi?freight=General+American+Pfaudler+Corp.=1021

Dennis