ORER QUESTION


brooklynbus <mec-bml@...>
 

GENTLEMAN:I given a neat pile of waybills and all dated 1958,my newest ORER is 3-1954.On the way bills are car numbers and was wondering if anyone can tell me the types of cars.

PRR 23871
CN 532470
CN 484199
PRR 600525
DTI 12128
CNW 105670

THANKS
JOEL NORMAN--MISSOURI


Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: brooklynbus


GENTLEMAN:I given a neat pile of waybills and all dated 1958,my newest ORER is 3-1954.On the way bills are car numbers and was wondering if anyone can tell me the types of cars.

1961 data, more than likely the same as 1958

PRR 23871 - X29D, XM
CN 532470 - XM
CN 484199 - XM
PRR 600525 - X43B, XM
DTI 12128 - XM
CNW 105670 - XM

KL


Tim O'Connor
 

Joel

PRR 23871
40ft rebuilt box car, class X29d, AAR type XM

CN 532470
From series 531700-533199 built 1951 ECC, YSD-2 doors, DP roof,
10 panel riveted sides, 4/4 IDE-2 ends, 8-rung ladders (This
type of car is available in HO from Intermountain)

CN 484199
From series 484165-485514 built1944 NSC, 10'0"IH, RP roof,
NSC-2 ends, 6' door (This car is now available in HO from
True Line Trains)

PRR 600525
From series 600000-601999 built 1951, Pressed Steel Car (Mt Vernon),
class X43B, 7' doors

DTI 12128
From series 12000-12399 built 1937, these are PRR X31c round roof
box cars

CNW 105670
From series 105600-106598 (even numbers), 50' box cars with 6' doors

Tim O'Connor


SUVCWORR@...
 

PRR 23871? X29d

PRR 600525? X43b

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: brooklynbus <mec-bml@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, Sep 4, 2009 12:41 pm
Subject: [STMFC] ORER QUESTION










GENTLEMAN:I given a neat pile of waybills and all dated 1958,my newest ORER is
3-1954.On the way bills are car numbers and was wondering if anyone can tell me
the types of cars.

PRR 23871
CN 532470
CN 484199
PRR 600525
DTI 12128
CNW 105670

THANKS
JOEL NORMAN--MISSOURI



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


stevelucas3 <stevelucas3@...>
 

Just a few little points about the CN cars, Tim.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


CN 532470
From series 531700-533199 built 1951 ECC, YSD-2 doors, DP roof,
10 panel riveted sides, 4/4 IDE-2 ends, 8-rung ladders (This
type of car is available in HO from Intermountain)
This series was 10'-6" i.h., and I'd go with the Branchline Blueprint version with a diagonal-panel roof (though I recall a car length issue with this kit) of his car myself. The only Intermountain CN-decorated 10'-6" i.h. boxcars that I've seen used a raised panel roof, only used on 1948-built cars of this inside height.

CN 484199
From series 484165-485514 built1944 NSC, 10'0"IH, RP roof,
NSC-2 ends, 6' door (This car is now available in HO from
True Line Trains)
A very nice model. Some runs had small issues with placement of ladders and lettering. But Allen Ferguson's Black Cat makes excellent decals to put this right, and one can move the ladders easily. It appears that these cars had segmented running boards, with each board running from one roof carline to the next, instead of the more-commonly modelled long boards running board. I can describe how I've modelled this type of running board.

By the way, "NSC-2" is not a prototype designation. It was coined by Stafford Swain to describe one variant of a National Steel Car boxcar end, and is now used almost universally by Canadian modellers.

Tim O'Connor


Tim O'Connor
 

Steve,

Only Intermountain makes the IDE-2 end. This end was first
released on their CN and CP cars along with correct 8-rung
Canadian style ladders. The models represented earlier cars
than the 531700 series.

You're right, to model the 531700 series you have to use a
diagonal panel roof and Branchline's YSD-2 doors. Both the
IM and BL cars are 10'6" tall. So it's use a Branchline body
and roof with IM ends and ladders, or IM body and ladders
with BL roof and doors. IM has sold me bodies by themselves
for about $2 each and other sprues for 0.75 each for kitbash
projects so that's why I would probably go that way.

Tim O'Connor

From series 531700-533199 built 1951 ECC, YSD-2 doors, DP roof,
10 panel riveted sides, 4/4 IDE-2 ends, 8-rung ladders (This
type of car is available in HO from Intermountain)
This series was 10'-6" i.h., and I'd go with the Branchline Blueprint version with a diagonal-panel roof (though I recall a car length issue with this kit) of his car myself. The only Intermountain CN-decorated 10'-6" i.h. boxcars that I've seen used a raised panel roof, only used on 1948-built cars of this inside height.


pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Tim & Steve,
I think you've both forgotten that Sylvan Scale Models offers the desired end in question as a resin part, DP-0043(formerly CRMPG 1848E)
Also the 8 rung ladders can be had from Des Plaines Hobbies.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Steve,

Only Intermountain makes the IDE-2 end. This end was first
released on their CN and CP cars along with correct 8-rung
Canadian style ladders. The models represented earlier cars
than the 531700 series.

You're right, to model the 531700 series you have to use a
diagonal panel roof and Branchline's YSD-2 doors. Both the
IM and BL cars are 10'6" tall. So it's use a Branchline body
and roof with IM ends and ladders, or IM body and ladders
with BL roof and doors. IM has sold me bodies by themselves
for about $2 each and other sprues for 0.75 each for kitbash
projects so that's why I would probably go that way.

Tim O'Connor



From series 531700-533199 built 1951 ECC, YSD-2 doors, DP roof,
10 panel riveted sides, 4/4 IDE-2 ends, 8-rung ladders (This
type of car is available in HO from Intermountain)
This series was 10'-6" i.h., and I'd go with the Branchline Blueprint version with a diagonal-panel roof (though I recall a car length issue with this kit) of his car myself. The only Intermountain CN-decorated 10'-6" i.h. boxcars that I've seen used a raised panel roof, only used on 1948-built cars of this inside height.


brianleppert@att.net <b.leppert@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



DTI 12128
From series 12000-12399 built 1937, these are PRR X31c round roof
box cars
I think these were just clones of Pennsy round roof box cars, and never owned by PRR. The trucks under these cars were Self-Aligning Double Truss Spring Plankless with Coil-Elliptic spring package (a favorite truck of DT&I's) and not PRR's 2D-F12 coil-elliptic truck.

Tahoe Model Works's new Coil-Elliptic truck is a close match, if you don't mind the spring plank detail.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Tim O'Connor
 

Yes, that's right Brian. That's why I didn't write "ex-PRR X31c". :-)

Tim

DTI 12128
From series 12000-12399 built 1937, these are PRR X31c round roof
box cars
I think these were just clones of Pennsy round roof box cars, and never owned by PRR. The trucks under these cars were Self-Aligning Double Truss Spring Plankless with Coil-Elliptic spring package (a favorite truck of DT&I's) and not PRR's 2D-F12 coil-elliptic truck.

Tahoe Model Works's new Coil-Elliptic truck is a close match, if you don't mind the spring plank detail.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


leakinmywaders
 

Tim and Brian: When I referred to the DTI's 40-ft X31c double door round roof boxcars as "clones" on another list, I was corrected by Rich Orr, who said it thusly:

--- In PRRPro@..., SUVCWORR@... wrote:
...
These were not X31 clones. The were X31 and subclass cars which were
originally leased by the PRR to the DT&I and subsequently sold to
the DT&I. The
cars were carried in the PRR listings in the ORER for a period of
time with a
note leased to DT&I. I don't have or have access to the issue of
the ORER
when they were dropped so I can't tell when the sale took place.

Rich Orr
So taking this and additional info from NP records, it appears these boxcars were built in 1937 by Greenville Steel Co. to PRR plans and for the PRR as original owner. They were popular cars; DT&I bought them after their initial lease, and after the DT&I sold them to A.A. Morrison in the 1960s for lease to the NP, that road too later bought them. These were among the few lots among the many refurbished boxcars it leased that the NP decided were worth purchasing outright.

I'm presently working on an article on the NP's X31 design leaser boxcars and if anyone has further information on their history, or can offer up a publishable in-service photograph in their DT&I life, I'd much appreciate hearing about it.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT


--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Yes, that's right Brian. That's why I didn't write "ex-PRR X31c". :-)

Tim


DTI 12128
From series 12000-12399 built 1937, these are PRR X31c round roof
box cars
I think these were just clones of Pennsy round roof box cars, and never owned by PRR. The trucks under these cars were Self-Aligning Double Truss Spring Plankless with Coil-Elliptic spring package (a favorite truck of DT&I's) and not PRR's 2D-F12 coil-elliptic truck.

Tahoe Model Works's new Coil-Elliptic truck is a close match, if you don't mind the spring plank detail.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


brianleppert@att.net <b.leppert@...>
 

These cars are listed as DT&I #12000-12399 in the April 1938 ORER. I cannot find any mention of them being leased from PRR in that issue.

Maybe Pennsy paid for them, but I'll argue that they were built new for the DT&I and never operated by Pennsy. My opinion is based solely that they don't have the expected PRR 2D-F12 trucks, but rather a truck favored by DT&I.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

--- In STMFC@..., "leakinmywaders" <leakinmywaders@...> wrote:

Tim and Brian: When I referred to the DTI's 40-ft X31c double door round roof boxcars as "clones" on another list, I was corrected by Rich Orr, SNIP


Tim O'Connor
 

Brian

I was VERY bummed to read that the trucks you made were not
correct for the DT&I cars because of the spring plank. Did I
understand that correctly? That means they're also not correct
for the NP exDT&I cars. :-(

Tim O'Connor

These cars are listed as DT&I #12000-12399 in the April 1938 ORER. I cannot find any mention of them being leased from PRR in that issue.

Maybe Pennsy paid for them, but I'll argue that they were built new for the DT&I and never operated by Pennsy. My opinion is based solely that they don't have the expected PRR 2D-F12 trucks, but rather a truck favored by DT&I.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

--- In STMFC@..., "leakinmywaders" <leakinmywaders@...> wrote:

Tim and Brian: When I referred to the DTI's 40-ft X31c double door round roof boxcars as "clones" on another list, I was corrected by Rich Orr, SNIP


brianleppert@att.net <b.leppert@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Brian

I was VERY bummed to read that the trucks you made were not
correct for the DT&I cars because of the spring plank. Did I
understand that correctly? That means they're also not correct
for the NP exDT&I cars. :-(

Tim O'Connor
Sorry, Tim. I can't make everybody happy. :>(

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works


Tim O'Connor
 

So which roads had the spring plank version of the trucks? I
don't think you made that distinction in earlier emails. I'm
guessing PRR is one of them.

Thanks
Tim

At 9/8/2009 12:24 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Brian

I was VERY bummed to read that the trucks you made were not
correct for the DT&I cars because of the spring plank. Did I
understand that correctly? That means they're also not correct
for the NP exDT&I cars. :-(

Tim O'Connor
Sorry, Tim. I can't make everybody happy. :>(

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works


cinderandeight@...
 

Guys,
I have a copy of a builder's photo of DT&I #12399 (from a half tone in
a catalog). It has no lettering mentioning a lease, and is painted as
"New 9/37" which would probably indicates this is how the car was delivered by
Greenville.
I too can't find a PRR listing that states they are leased (after
checking a half dozen ORER's in the late 1930's, including the issue in which
the cars first appear as a number series, with no cars yet delivered, Oct.
1937). Other DT&I leased cars clearly show a note above the DT&I logo statin
g such, and were listed under the same number series in the PRR section as
if they were still PRR cars. This is not the case for the X31C box cars.
(unless someone can point me to an issue with them?)
Rich Burg


brianleppert@att.net <b.leppert@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


So which roads had the spring plank version of the trucks? I
don't think you made that distinction in earlier emails. I'm
guessing PRR is one of them.

Thanks
Tim
Tim, one of these days (soon, I hope) I'll get my notes together and post a list here of what cars and RRs I've found that used the double truss Coil-Elliptic trucks. Hopefully I'll get additions/corrections from members.

C&O, some CGW, Erie, some LNE, N&W, VGN and WM used these trucks with spring planks. BAR, DT&I and SHPX had spring-plankless versions.

PRR had one or two designs of double truss, coil-elliptic trucks. The 70-ton version had a spring plank. I don't know about the 50-ton.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


leakinmywaders
 

Brian: You have a good point there, and I'll temper my report on this accordingly. Sounds like maybe Rich knows of a Pennsy AFE or lease agreement, but I haven't seen it. I also don't have the DT&I diagram sheet info, or an early shot of the cars that might show wording in a lease stencil.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@..., "brianleppert@..." <b.leppert@...> wrote:

These cars are listed as DT&I #12000-12399 in the April 1938 ORER. I cannot find any mention of them being leased from PRR in that issue.

Maybe Pennsy paid for them, but I'll argue that they were built new for the DT&I and never operated by Pennsy. My opinion is based solely that they don't have the expected PRR 2D-F12 trucks, but rather a truck favored by DT&I.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


SUVCWORR@...
 

The information I cited was from one of the PRR ORER pages on the CD's sold by Al Westefield.? I do not have the issue marked down and would need to go through all the end notes for the ORER's to find it again.? Since these are jpeg files they are not searchable.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: leakinmywaders <leakinmywaders@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tue, Sep 8, 2009 2:16 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ORER QUESTION










Brian: You have a good point there, and I'll temper my report on this
accordingly. Sounds like maybe Rich knows of a Pennsy AFE or lease agreement,
but I haven't seen it. I also don't have the DT&I diagram sheet info, or an
early shot of the cars that might show wording in a lease stencil.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@..., "brianleppert@..." <b.leppert@...> wrote:

These cars are listed as DT&I #12000-12399 in the April 1938 ORER. I cannot
find any mention of them being leased from PRR in that issue.

Maybe Pennsy paid for them, but I'll argue that they were built new for the
DT&I and never operated by Pennsy. My opinion is based solely that they don't
have the expected PRR 2D-F12 trucks, but rather a truck favored by DT&I.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

Perhaps not everyone but you've made many of us a lot happier.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., "brianleppert@..." <b.leppert@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@> wrote:

Brian

I was VERY bummed to read that the trucks you made were not
correct for the DT&I cars because of the spring plank. Did I
understand that correctly? That means they're also not correct
for the NP exDT&I cars. :-(

Tim O'Connor
Sorry, Tim. I can't make everybody happy. :>(

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works